[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[Misguided Kerbal]

Hi, I've been working on a new 1.12 install specifically with JNSQ, and ground scatter is simply refusing to work. It just doesn't show up, but if you zoom out you can see the shadows where scatter is supposed to be. I also have parallax installed, so I was wondering if this was simply an existing mod conflict. I can upload logs and stuff if necessary, thanks.

[fleventeen]

52 minutes ago, Misguided Kerbal said:

Hi, I've been working on a new 1.12 install specifically with JNSQ, and ground scatter is simply refusing to work. It just doesn't show up, but if you zoom out you can see the shadows where scatter is supposed to be. I also have parallax installed, so I was wondering if this was simply an existing mod conflict. I can upload logs and stuff if necessary, thanks.

JNSQ and Parallax are currently incompatible.

[sbiancio]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:07 PM, fleventeen said:

Maybe you just got a lot better at the game and didn't realize it.  

If you find it too easy you could try to find some mods that rebalance part masses and engine performance.

Nahhhh hahaha definetly didnt get any better  

Yeah can do that or maybe with a bigger rescale bod to put it to 3x or something... got any idea of which mods i can use to rebalance stuff?

On 5/1/2022 at 10:20 PM, CDSlice said:

It’s probably because you are using BDB, the vast majority of the rockets in that mod are designed to be able to get to orbit in 2.5x scale (because the real world rockets could). It also sticks lots of parts early in the tech tree along with lots of experiments so you can easily get Thor or Delta parts pretty quickly and get to orbit. 

oh no i absolutely agree on this lol but in theory the scale of the planet is the same, the rockets are the same still from bdb... its weird hahaha im really starting to think that i didnt have 2.5 before but something bigger cause i noticed i can see the curvature of earth waaaaay sooner than before 

[OhioBob]

6 hours ago, sbiancio said:

Yeah can do that or maybe with a bigger rescale bod to put it to 3x or something... 

Going 3x wouldn't make much of a difference.  The increase in delta-v is roughly equal to the square root of the resize factor.  JNSQ is about 2.66x bigger than stock, so if you went to 3x, the delta-v would increase by only about SQRT(3/2.66) = 1.06 times.  One way to think about it is, how much more delta-v do you want it to require?  Say that instead of JNSQ's 4900 m/s to orbit, you want it to be about 6000 m/s.  Then you would need a resize factor of,

6000 / 4900 = SQRT (ResizeFactor / 2.66)

ResizeFactor = 2.66 * (6000 / 4900)² = 4x
 

Edited May 3, 2022 by OhioBob

[fleventeen]

@sbiancioYou could try SMURFF.

It looks pretty simple, but you will need to edit the configs to make it do what you want. I think it is balanced for a 10x system by default.

Edited May 3, 2022 by fleventeen

[N3N]

Hey @Galileo, @OhioBob, @JadeOfMaar,

Just for your information:

[OhioBob]

22 hours ago, N3N said:

Hey @Galileo, @OhioBob, @JadeOfMaar,

Just for your information:

At this point in time, there are no plans to make any further updates to JNSQ.

[ble210]

I think I may be having issues with Rational Resources and JNSQ.  Reading the mod page, the Mun should not have Uraninite, and Minmus should not have a lot of ores.  But in my game, both bodies have a lot of each of those resources.  I've installed Rational Resources, Rational Resources Companion, and Rational Resources Kerbalism (since I'm using that mod).  Is this correct?

I'd be happy to post photos of the resource distribution on various bodies if that helps.

Thank you for your help!

Edited May 9, 2022 by ble210

[Vabien]

Currently working on a fix for Jool and Lindor in the latest scatterer. I'm not part of the original team so this will be a separate thing unless someone adds it. Basically as it stands, Jool and Lindor make EVE clouds and Scatterer effects separate. Specifically they disabled integration of the two. Now I haven't figured out exactly why this makes everything go black, but I do know how to fix it. In Gamedata\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\planetsList.cfg adjust both Jool and Lindor to have usesCloudIntegration = true, then in Gamedata\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\Planets\(INSERTPLANETHERE)\atmo.cfg adjust cloudColorMultipier to = 1, and EVEIntegration_preserveCloudColors to = True. This should get a fairly close to original look. This is not necessarily a permanent fix though. I have gotten some weirdness with adjusting EVE configs, and tbh I haven't compared it to the original, but it should be good enough for now.

[N3N]

1 hour ago, Vabien said:

Currently working on a fix for Jool and Lindor in the latest scatterer. I'm not part of the original team so this will be a separate thing unless someone adds it. Basically as it stands, Jool and Lindor make EVE clouds and Scatterer effects separate. Specifically they disabled integration of the two. Now I haven't figured out exactly why this makes everything go black, but I do know how to fix it. In Gamedata\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\planetsList.cfg adjust both Jool and Lindor to have usesCloudIntegration = true, then in Gamedata\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\Planets\(INSERTPLANETHERE)\atmo.cfg adjust cloudColorMultipier to = 1, and EVEIntegration_preserveCloudColors to = True. This should get a fairly close to original look. This is not necessarily a permanent fix though. I have gotten some weirdness with adjusting EVE configs, and tbh I haven't compared it to the original, but it should be good enough for now.

Hey @Vabien,

This was mentioned here:

and here:

Maybe you can work together with @G'th?

[N3N]

Hey,

I have a maybe stupid question, but do I need more than one "SENTINEL Infrared Telescope" in JNSQ (+Kerbalism)?

At the moment I have one in between Duna and Kerbin, but do I need more, in other places, to see all Asteroid belts?

[Grimmas]

From what I've seen, you don't really need one at all tbh. 

[N3N]

1 minute ago, Grimmas said:

From what I've seen, you don't really need one at all tbh. 

Really?

 

I thought only the first ones are "for free" and to find more you need the "SENTINEL Infrared Telescope"...

 

I'm 2 months in a new save now and at there are 78 Asteroids in different belts, but I didn't discover "new" ones in these 2 months, the 78 are from the beginning, that's why I put now a "SENTINEL Infrared Telescope" between Kerbin and Duna and Kerbalism is saying "mapping Duna".

[Grimmas]

So, asteroids typically spawn periodically. When you do not start tracking them in the tracking station they will eventually despawn and new ones will spawn. Maybe in the stock game you need a sentinel, not sure, haven't played stock in years. But when you use JNSQ or another planet mod you are usually running Kopernicus which is also usually configured to spawn its own asteroids (it also has other possible settings, like turning asteroids off - if you want to use another mod like Custom Asteroids - or using the stock spawner system). And the Kopernicus spawner is programmed to keep a certain minimum/maximum number of asteroids around (this is a Kopernicus setting usually provided in the planet pack itself). If you're not seeing new ones then maybe you are already tracking the maximum number.

Take it with a grain of salt, I am not really an expert on asteroids.

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, N3N said:

I have a maybe stupid question, but do I need more than one "SENTINEL Infrared Telescope" in JNSQ (+Kerbalism)?

At the moment I have one in between Duna and Kerbin, but do I need more, in other places, to see all Asteroid belts?

I don't know how the SENTINEL telescope works; I've never used it.  But as far as asteroids in JNSQ are concerned, they appear in several places but only the main belt between Duna and Jool is visible without first reaching the area where they spawn.  I'm not exactly sure what qualifies as "reached", but that's how it's set up.  When I tested the asteroids, I just needed to put a vessel in orbit near where they spawn, and eventually they started to appear.  I didn't need a telescope, so I don't know what's up with that.

Be aware, however, that Kopernicus asteroids are a bit bugged.  They work, sort of, but not really the way they should.  As new areas are discovered, asteroids begin to spread out in all the discovered areas, so the density goes down.  At least that's the way it was the last time I tested.  I don't think anything has been done to fix it, though the Kopernicus dev knows about the problems.  It's apparently not an easy fix.

(edit)

Here's some additional information that might be helpful.  Once the maximum number of asteroids has been reached, they'll stop spawning.  New ones won't spawn until an old one despawns.  Therefore, when reaching a new area, you may have a long wait before asteroids begin spawning there.  Asteroids in JNSQ's main asteroid belt are set to live between 475 and 950 hours.  That's "untracked" lifetime.  Tracked asteroids live forever.

Edited May 11, 2022 by OhioBob

[Rodger]

You can also use hyperedit to remove excess asteroids if you want more to spawn. Go to the tracking station, track the unwanted asteroid, then in hyperedit in misc tools, go to delete vessel and pick the correct asteroid.

[Vabien]

21 hours ago, N3N said:

Hey @Vabien,

This was mentioned here:

and here:

Maybe you can work together with @G'th?

Ah thanks for the heads up. As far as working together, honestly it's the easiest fix ever. The only trick is just getting it to look like it did before. The old implementation allows clouds to be unaffected by scatterer, and therefore eve clouds render OVER scatterer. This implementation renders clouds UNDER scatterer, which is more realistic, but does alter the look. I found my settings looked fairly good, but ultimately it's up to the original team, if they even want to update that. Haven't tested it with old scatterer either, so it could alter compatibility.

[N3N]

21 hours ago, Grimmas said:

...

20 hours ago, OhioBob said:

...

17 hours ago, Rodger said:

You can also use hyperedit to remove excess asteroids if you want more to spawn. Go to the tracking station, track the unwanted asteroid, then in hyperedit in misc tools, go to delete vessel and pick the correct asteroid.

Hey @Grimmas, @OhioBob , @Rodger,

Thank you, for your fast and understandable answers!

 

 

3 hours ago, Vabien said:

Ah thanks for the heads up. As far as working together, honestly it's the easiest fix ever. The only trick is just getting it to look like it did before. The old implementation allows clouds to be unaffected by scatterer, and therefore eve clouds render OVER scatterer. This implementation renders clouds UNDER scatterer, which is more realistic, but does alter the look. I found my settings looked fairly good, but ultimately it's up to the original team, if they even want to update that. Haven't tested it with old scatterer either, so it could alter compatibility.

Hey @Vabien,

Does that mean, that your adaptation should be used only with the newest scatterer version?

And are all "other things" not effected by the scatterer version?

And is it possible to update scatterer in an ongoing save, without problems?

[Grimmas]

You can update scatterer in an ongoing save, pretty much the worst thing that can happen is that your planets/atmospheres will start looking weird. It's a visual mod and it won't break anything, you can just downgrade again later if needed. 

[N3N]

Just now, Grimmas said:

You can update scatterer in an ongoing save, pretty much the worst thing that can happen is that your planets/atmospheres will start looking weird. It's a visual mod and it won't break anything, you can just downgrade again later if needed. 

Thank you.

[Vabien]

30 minutes ago, N3N said:

Hey @Grimmas, @OhioBob , @Rodger,

Thank you, for your fast and understandable answers!

 

 

Hey @Vabien,

Does that mean, that your adaptation should be used only with the newest scatterer version?

And are all "other things" not effected by the scatterer version?

And is it possible to update scatterer in an ongoing save, without problems?

Well my adaptation should still work with older versions, but I definitely recommend using the newest if you wanna try it.

[N3N]

On 5/10/2022 at 8:35 PM, Vabien said:

then in Gamedata\JNSQ\JNSQ_Configs\Scatterer\Planets\(INSERTPLANETHERE)\atmo.cfg adjust cloudColorMultipier to = 1, and EVEIntegration_preserveCloudColors to = True

Hey @Vabien,

Do I have to do this for every planet or only for Lindor and Jool?

 

Because I did test it with the newest scatterer and only doing it for Jool and Lindor, but I think my Eve and Huygen are looking too dark and Lindor is looking a little strange with this green "errors" at the twilight zone:

Spoiler

Edited May 11, 2022 by N3N

[Grimmas]

That's definitely what they look like when broken with the new scatterer  You'll want to play around with those settings for the planets that are broken, until you get an acceptable result.

For comparison, here's what mine look like (old scatterer + TUFX)

[N3N]

3 minutes ago, Grimmas said:

That's definitely what they look like when broken with the new scatterer  You'll want to play around with those settings for the planets that are broken, until you get an acceptable result.

For comparison, here's what mine look like (old scatterer + TUFX)

Hey @Grimmas,

Thank you!

 

Until now I didn't use TUFX.

Is there a good tutorial on it or a config you can recommand for JNSQ?

[Grimmas]

It's not complicated, just install it and drop some profile config files from other modders into GameData/TUFX/Profiles folder. 

I recommend the profiles from Zorg, Ballisticfox, or Steven.