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[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]


Galileo
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4 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Do Kerbal Konstructs and Omega's Stockalike Stuctures work with JNSQ Rescale 10x ?

It hasn't been tested, so I can't guarantee that it will work.  You could run into problems.  It shouldn't be game breaking, however.

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Science Definitions for Non-Stock Worlds

I'm starting to (finally) fill out science definitions for the non-stock worlds, and perhaps add a few for the original ones. Would anyone like to contribute? Just e-mail me some text or fork your own copy:

https://github.com/gordonfpanam/JNSQ/tree/master/GameData/JNSQ/JNSQ_Configs/ScienceDefs

This won't be ready for a pull request, until at least one unique text is available for each unique experiment, and en-us localization is available for these. Speaking of localization, is it OK if I just add a ScienceDefs_en-us.cfg to the existing JNSQ_Localization folder? Or do the texts need to be part of the existing en-us.cfg?

Fixing GPP_Secondary Clouds

Another question. I started messing with adding Galileo's Planet Pack as a secondary star system, and of course the clouds broke. I started inspecting the configurations and noticed they seemed to replace the clouds on the reimagined stock worlds. When one cloud config fails, everything afterward fails too.

I started experimenting and came up with a possible solution. For a cloud definition for Gael I used this:

		name:NEEDS[!GPP_Secondary] = Kerbin-Auroras
		name:NEEDS[GPP_Secondary] = Gael-Auroras
		body:NEEDS[!GPP_Secondary] = Kerbin
		body:NEEDS[GPP_Secondary] = Gael

This and other checks for [!JNSQ] seemed to work. But I don't know if this is EVE-friendly, as EVE complained that Gael-Auroras was an invalid config. Even though it worked. Any thoughts?

I might pull a similar stunt with the sun flares once I learn how the current Scatterer manages multi-star support.

Edited by Gordon Fecyk
Added link to changes in GPP fork
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The deployable seismometer is currently not working on new planets due to the lack of a SEISMICENERGY parameter. How about adding it? There is a small MM patch that does this:

Spoiler
@DEPLOYEDSCIENCE:FINAL
{
	@SEISMICENERGY
	{
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Edna
			Energy = 9.02e7
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Dak
			Energy = 5.33e5
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Krel
			Energy = 1.13e7
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Aden
			Energy = 1.05e8
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Huygen
			Energy = 1.12e9
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Riga
			Energy = 1.69e9
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Talos
			Energy = 4.58e8
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Celes
			Energy = 2.67e7
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Tam
			Energy = 3.43e5
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Hamek
			Energy = 3.38e8
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Nara
			Energy = 2.16e11
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Amos
			Energy = 1.02e8
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Enon
			Energy = 1.23e9
		}
		ENTRY
		{
			BodyName = Prax
			Energy = 4.03e6
		}
	}
}

Values are caclulated as GM*0.0017 to preserve the base range  from Breaking Ground (except of very small planets like Gilly).

 

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3 hours ago, Marschig said:

The deployable seismometer is currently not working on new planets due to the lack of a SEISMICENERGY parameter. How about adding it? There is a small MM patch that does this:

Thankyou.  Will include a version of this in the next update.

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22 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Fixing GPP_Secondary Clouds

Another question. I started messing with adding Galileo's Planet Pack as a secondary star system, and of course the clouds broke. I started inspecting the configurations and noticed they seemed to replace the clouds on the reimagined stock worlds. When one cloud config fails, everything afterward fails too.

I started experimenting and came up with a possible solution. For a cloud definition for Gael I used this:

		name:NEEDS[!GPP_Secondary] = Kerbin-Auroras
		name:NEEDS[GPP_Secondary] = Gael-Auroras
		body:NEEDS[!GPP_Secondary] = Kerbin
		body:NEEDS[GPP_Secondary] = Gael

This and other checks for [!JNSQ] seemed to work. But I don't know if this is EVE-friendly, as EVE complained that Gael-Auroras was an invalid config. Even though it worked. Any thoughts?

I might pull a similar stunt with the sun flares once I learn how the current Scatterer manages multi-star support.

I haven't noticed clouds breaking.  None of my tests have ever revealed a problem.  Which clouds break specifically and with what installed?

GPP isn't suppose to replace clouds on the JNSQ stock worlds.  GPP adds clouds to the stock worlds when installed secondary to the stock solar system, but this is disable when JNSQ is installed, i.e. NEEDS[!JNSQ].

I can see how the naming thing can be an issue -- could end up with two EVE objects with the same name if not careful.  I think we got lucky, however, because GPP uses "-" in its names while JNSQ uses "_", so they really aren't the same.  I don't think your suggestion really does anything in this particular case, nonetheless, it's a wise precaution and I plan to implemented the change.

 

 

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1 hour ago, OhioBob said:

GPP isn't suppose to replace clouds on the JNSQ stock worlds.

It looks like GPP_Secondary is trying to do it though, which might be the issue.

If you want, I can revert to the currently published add-ons and reproduce the problem, then post the result somewhere. I'll add a Module Manager cache to the result, as this is where I found something was messing with Kerbin and her sisters.

What actually broke was pretty much all clouds - EVE is strange in that it stops processing cloud setup at the point it encounters a problem. Clouds that worked before the fault will work, then subsequent clouds will not work, even if their configurations are correct. This was what I encountered when trying to adapt Stock Visual Enhancements with Alien Space Programs, and as a result, ASP has patches to detect SVE and work around what I ran into.

Edited by Gordon Fecyk
Forgot to answer your question, "what broke."
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@Gordon Fecyk, you're going to have to tell me exactly what you are doing to cause this so I can reproduce it.  Because I tested JNSQ with GPP_Secondary after reading your initial post about this and had no issues (i.e. all clouds are working as they should).  So clearly you must be doing something differently then I.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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On 11/13/2021 at 4:09 PM, Gordon Dry said:

Do Kerbal Konstructs and Omega's Stockalike Stuctures work with JNSQ Rescale 10x ?

The major issue you *might* encounter is that one or more bases may end up below ground level by several meters. If that happens, you may need to spawn at that base, Ctrl-K into the KK GUI, and click on "Edit Groups" so you can raise the group up to the surface level. Also, your vertical terrain is going to be 10x (or whatever is set in the rescale settings), which means parts of the base may not be adjacent to the ground or can bury parts of the base that were level at 1x or 2.7x. Be prepared to do a lot of editing on some sites for either functionality or aesthetics.

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4 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

I'll try. I have a full week of work this week including 'patch Tuesday' updates, so it might be a while.

No rush, but I would like to get to the bottom of this.  Whenever I release an update, one of the things I test most rigorously is EVE, because that's one of the things that is most easily messed up.  I don't understand why clouds are working fine for me and not for you.  Doesn't make any sense.  Just to be sure we're on the same page, here's what I'm using:

  • EVE-Redux, v1.11.5.1
  • GPP, v1.6.7.0
    • GPP_Secondary
    • GPP_Rescale, 2.5x
  • JNSQ, v0.10.1
  • scatterer, v0.0772
  • ModuleManager, v4.2.1

I also tested it using EVE v1.8.0.2, and without GPP_Rescale, and without scatterer.  In all cases I found no cloud related problems.  I'm also not seeing anything out of place in the ModuleManager cache - i.e. the GPP configs for the stock bodies are not executing, as should be.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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@OhioBob Thanks so much for your patience as I finally get a chance to reproduce this.

I'm recording video and keeping snapshots of my KSP log and Module Manager caches as I pile on add-ons and make changes. I'm hoping to get all of the footage recorded tonight and edited tomorrow.

Just with JNSQ, GPP, GPP Secondary, GPP Rescale 2.5 and EVE, no Scatterer yet, I managed to make Eve (the planet) purple again, Kerbin have the same dark blue shade as Gael, and have Duna and Laythe look saturated. So far I had to edit EVE_Atmospheres, EVE_StockAtmos, and GPPClouds_HighRes so Kerbin looks like Kerbin, Eve looks like Venus, and have Duna and Laythe look like their JNSQ normal. But they are only the same edits I suggested before; only use if JNSQ is not present, and rename name=Kerbin-* to name=Gael-* if GPP_Secondary is present.

I'm going to pile on GEP and GEP Rescale 2.5 just to round things out. I'll then put in Scatterer to make sure nothing else needed to change.

The video will have all of the versions I downloaded demonstrated, as of today. I grabbed fresh versions to make sure I had the latest updates.

And I know what it's like to test, and test, and re-test, and have someone still find a problem. It's frustrating as [censored]. Don't worry about me blaming you for anything.

I just need a few more hours to get the remaining footage, edits, results, and logs.

[Update] I found it...! After adding GEP and GEP_Rescale the clouds all disappeared even  when they worked without GEP in there. But then I wondered about this line in GEP_Configs/Clouds.cfg:

@EVE_CLOUDS:AFTER[GPP]
{
	[...]
	{
		name = Nodens-MainClouds
        [...]
		settings
		{
        	[...]
			_MainTex
			{
				value = GEP/GEP_Textures/Clouds/kerbin1
			}

...um... there isn't a texture named kerbin1.dds in there, but there is a Nodens_Clouds.dds, which was referenced later on in the first EVE_CLOUDS section there. Fixing that to match the earlier Nodens-MainClouds config finally corrected the clouds for all worlds that were supposed to have them.

I have all of the footage I need. I'm going to re-review it though, since it might come down to only two fixes: The above one for Nodens, and the one in EVE_StockAtmos.cfg to add a !JNSQ condition.

 

Edited by Gordon Fecyk
I think I have it fixed with just a couple of lines
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21 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

But then I wondered about this line in GEP_Configs/Clouds.cfg:

(snip)

You're correct about that.  Up until the last GEP release, Nodens used a texture named kerbin1.dds.  But v1.2.5 upgraded Nodens to a higher resolution cloud texture, and in doing so I changed the name to Nodens_clouds.dds.  In Clouds.cfg I changed it in one place {!GPP] but not in the other [GPP].  I'll have to fix that.

21 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

and the one in EVE_StockAtmos.cfg to add a !JNSQ condition.

You're right about that too.  The EVE clouds have a [!JNSQ] condition, but the atmospheres do not.  Those atmospheres only execute if EVE is installed and scatterer is not, so they're not seen very often.  I probably failed to test them in the particular scenario that you're using.  It likely causes a problem if and only if the following are used:  JNSQ + GPP_Secondary + EVE and no scatterer.

21 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

I'll then put in Scatterer to make sure nothing else needed to change.

When using scatterer, do make certain to include the appropriate Rescale mods.  JNSQ breaks scatterer for other planet packs.  The fix for this is included in the Rescale mods.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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58 minutes ago, SebastianPahlsson said:

I'm getting grey dark Eve and black Jool. Something I'm doing wrong?

Are you using latest scatterer, v0.0825b I think it is?  If so, don't.  JNSQ is not updated for it.  Use scatterer v0.0772.

If you aren't using the latest scatterer, then I don't know.  I can't know what you are doing wrong if I don't know what you are doing.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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58 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

You're right about that too.  The EVE clouds have a [!JNSQ] condition, but the atmospheres do not.  Those atmospheres only execute if EVE is installed and scatterer is not, so they're not seen very often.  I probably failed to test them in the particular scenario that you're using.  It likely causes a problem if and only if the following are used:  JNSQ + GPP_Secondary + EVE and no scatterer.

Are you using latest scatterer, v0.0825b I think it is?  If so, don't.  JNSQ is not updated for it.  Use scatterer v0.0772.

If you aren't using the latest scatterer, then I don't know.  I can't know what you are doing wrong if I don't know what you are doing.

I'm using the latest version. Will downgrade, thanks a lot!

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@OhioBob Thanks for confirming.

Those were the only two fixes needed - the !JNSQ condition for the GPP atmospheres, and the texture fix for Nodens' atmosphere when using the Grannus Expansion Pack.  The Kerbin-* clouds used by Gael won't interfere with the Kerbin_* clouds used by JNSQ Kerbin, so that rename isn't necessary as you explained.

Thank goodness. EVE is a strange beast in that one configuration mistake breaks all of the clouds, and in this case it was for Nodens when I dumped GPP and GEP in at the same time at first.

Did you want to see the video? It's about an hour long, but it covers my whole troubleshooting process. I'd post it as unlisted on YouTube.

@SebastianPahlsson Come to think of it, I'll publish the video (53 minutes, YouTube) for your benefit as well as OhioBob's. You can see how I installed everything, though I did skip over the Scatterer install since that was a simple drop-in and it didn't require any configuration editing. These two changes alone were enough to fix the whole installation, along with using the 0.07 Scatterer. 

Edited by Gordon Fecyk
Added a note and video link for Sebastian
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@Gordon Fecyk, if you think these couple of changes fixes everything, then I really don't need to see the video.

When you talked about "clouds" breaking, then the cloud configurations are all I bothered to look at.  I forgot all about the atmospheres and never thought to even look at that.  We have so many different ways to install this stuff that it's hard to remember to verify every possible combination.  You apparently just happen to hit on a combination that slipped through the cracks.  I'm glad you figured it out.  Thanks for the help.

Although the renaming thing you talked about isn't strictly needed, I made the change anyway.  It's just good practice I think to do it as you suggested.

I'll probably release a quick update within the next couple of days.

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