Galileo

[1.7.x] JNSQ [0.7] [17 June 2019]

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jefferyharrell said:

Yesterday I asked about making a Module Manager patch that would increase the brightness of the sunlight. I was successful. Here are a couple of screenshots. Reasonable people can disagree about whether they like the "hotter" look, but I do. Thanks a million for helping me achieve it.

LdB4euq.png

zNfM81z.png

EDIT: Just one more quick picture, this time of the launch of a vehicle that'll take a SCANsat satellite up into a polar orbit. I really like the lighting in this one. It's a bit later in the day.

6fdicht.png

Cool, can you post the config? I'd like it take a look. thx

EDIT...never mind, I found it in Ohio Bob's post...thx

Edited by Tyko

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@Tyko I had to do some math, following Bob's instructions. If I can remember, I'll post the whole config file for you a bit later. It's quite short.

Note that in those screen shots I'm also using KS3P with the ACES color grade preset. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but I'm a sucker for high contrast and color saturation.

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13 hours ago, Gaultesian said:

I have been testing it out, and I noticed that using autopilot (landing), the autopilot does not seem to find the KSC runway.  It seems to think the KSC runway is over 450KM away from the actual KSC runway.  I know it may be a mechjeb error, but I was wondering if this could be easily rectified in the JNSQ config file (i guess it may be the JNSQ mechjeb config, and the lat-tong of the KSC runways being off a bit).

It looks like MechJeb is still using the coodinates of the stock KSC.  (The distance between our location and the stock location is 467 km.)  I'm guessing we have a syntax error in our config.  We'll look into it.

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@Tyko As promised, here's my brighter-sun MM patch:

@Kopernicus:AFTER[JNSQ]
{
    @Body[Sun] 
    {
        @ScaledVersion
        {
            @Light
            {
                !ScaledIntensityCurve {}
                ScaledIntensityCurve
                {
                    key = 0 2 0 0
                    key = 1500000 2 0 -1.92E-07
                    key = 3000000 1.8 -9.62E-08 -9.62E-08
                    key = 6000000 1.6 -4.81E-08 -4.81E-08
                    key = 12000000 1.4 -2.40E-08 -2.40E-08
                    key = 24000000 1.2 -1.20E-08 -1.20E-08
                    key = 48000000 1 -6.01E-09 -6.01E-09
                    key = 96000000 0.8 -3.01E-09 -3.01E-09
                    key = 192000000 0.6 -1.50E-09 -1.50E-09
                    key = 384000000 0.4 -7.51E-10 -7.51E-10
                    key = 768000000 0.2 -3.76E-10 -3.76E-10
                    key = 1536000000 0 -1.88E-10 0
                }

                !IntensityCurve {}
                IntensityCurve
                {
                    key = 0 2 0 0
                    key = 9000000000 2 0 -3.21E-11
                    key = 18000000000 1.8 -1.60E-11 -1.60E-11
                    key = 36000000000 1.6 -8.01E-12 -8.01E-12
                    key = 72000000000 1.4 -4.01E-12 -4.01E-12
                    key = 144000000000 1.2 -2.00E-12 -2.00E-12
                    key = 288000000000 1 -1.00E-12 -1.00E-12
                    key = 576000000000 0.8 -5.01E-13 -5.01E-13
                    key = 1152000000000 0.6 -2.50E-13 -2.50E-13
                    key = 2304000000000 0.4 -1.25E-13 -1.25E-13
                    key = 4608000000000 0.2 -6.26E-14 -6.26E-14
                    key = 9216000000000 0 -3.13E-14 0
                }

                !IVAIntensityCurve {}
                IVAIntensityCurve
                {
                    key = 0 1.8 0 0
                    key = 9000000000 1.8 0 -2.89E-11
                    key = 18000000000 1.62 -1.44E-11 -1.44E-11
                    key = 36000000000 1.44 -7.21E-12 -7.21E-12
                    key = 72000000000 1.26 -3.61E-12 -3.61E-12
                    key = 144000000000 1.08 -1.80E-12 -1.80E-12
                    key = 288000000000 0.9 -9.02E-13 -9.02E-13
                    key = 576000000000 0.72 -4.51E-13 -4.51E-13
                    key = 1152000000000 0.54 -2.25E-13 -2.25E-13
                    key = 2304000000000 0.36 -1.13E-13 -1.13E-13
                    key = 4608000000000 0.18 -5.64E-14 -5.64E-14
                    key = 9216000000000 0 -2.82E-14 0
                }

            }
        }
    }
}

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi these planets are so great. Let me tell you about a quirk that maybe is possible to fix maybe not. I was on my way into reentry from 800k and decided to just look out the IVA window for 20 minutes. Losing track of time I looked at the (inexplicably working) altitude meter in the stock mk1 pod and got freaked out by the reading. I quickly spun around and staged, but then checked normal view to find I was still at 300k. The meter seems to be off by 200k for some reason...

 

EDIT

nevermind I was just missing the 100,000s digit just doesn't exist on that meter!

Edited by EvanR

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, OhioBob said:

It looks like MechJeb is still using the coodinates of the stock KSC.  (The distance between our location and the stock location is 467 km.)  I'm guessing we have a syntax error in our config.  We'll look into it.

I just quickly checked: runways 09 and 027 (front and back end of the KSC runway) in the modified  config you sent, and they are in the correct places and work perfectly for mechjeb autopilot landing commands.  I will check the rest of the runways later this evening.


Great work OhioBob!

 

As soon as I get home tonight, I will have a test drive with the mechjeb config you sent.  It should only take about 10-15 minutes worth of testing to see if it solves the issue.  Thanks again for having a look under the hood in such quick time, and I will report my findings after I have tested it out.

 

Cheers,

Gaultesian

Edited by Gaultesian

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Posted (edited)

I second questions about what exactly to do with the new mineable resources. Am I missing something, or do we need other mods to utilize them? I don't see anything in the compatible/recommended list that does (maybe Kerbalism?). And the stock ISRU doesn't seem to be able to convert anything into anything used by TACLS (the only thing I currently have that might).

Edited by curiousepic

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, curiousepic said:

I second questions about what exactly to do with the new mineable resources. Am I missing something, or do we need other mods to utilize them? I don't see anything in the compatible/recommended list that does (maybe Kerbalism?). And the stock ISRU doesn't seem to be able to convert anything into anything used by TACLS (the only thing I currently have that might).

You will need other mods to utilize them. Realistic Resources is briefly explained, and a link is given to its thread in OhioBob's post immediately under the JNSQ OP.

Using the stock ISRU to produce consumables for life support always sounds kind of gross to me. Most of the time it was nasty chemicals (fuels and other industrial stuff) going through it. :sticktongue: For the most part, Realistic Resources does only two things:

  1. It makes the available resource combinations on planets to be logical and to no longer be under the full control of the RNG. Every resource available should not be readily available on the likes of Moho and Eeloo simultaneously.
  2. It makes a planet pack easily compatible with Kerbalism and TAC LS, and makes it easier to make more ways to get the resources you want. Mun is now rich with drill-able Oxygen, Minmus with Nitrogen (for Kerbalism). There will be more places to drill for water. And atmospheres (where applicable) will contain some amount of water and other things that can be harvested with air scoop mods.

Currently only JNSQ features this mod but other planet mods soon will, and part modders will pick up on the ISRU opportunities.

 

Edited by JadeOfMaar

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

Just wondering if the Kerbalism compatibility provided in this mod is expected to extend to the Kerbalism 3.0 release when it comes out?

Edited by CoriW

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, CoriW said:

Hello,

Just wondering if the Kerbalism compatibility provided in this mod is expected to extend to the Kerbalism 3.0 release when it comes out?

No idea.  None of the JNSQ team uses Kerbalism, so none of us follow its development.  If we get bug reports, then we'll probably have to look into it.  Sorry I can't be more specific, but I just don't know.
 

Edited by OhioBob

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1 hour ago, OhioBob said:

No idea.  None of the JNSQ team uses Kerbalism, so none of us follow its development.  If we get bug reports, then we'll probably have to look into it.  Sorry I can't be more specific, but I just don't know.
 

All good, I've never used Kerbalism either since I used to play with GPP and Kerbalism is known to not be compatible with multiple stars.

Currently waiting for it and Kopernicus to update before I start a new playthrough in 1.7.1 + BG. I presume the compatibility is implemented via some MM patches? (Not at my computer atm so can't check)

If that's the case, in the event anything does break I can probably tinker together a working patch. (But I'd also make sure to mention it here so you guys know.)

Anyways, thanks for everything you guys do, can't wait to try this pack out. My jaw literally dropped when it released, amazing work.

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On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 9:56 PM, Quoniam Kerman said:

Also, why adding an atmosphere on Tylo? Because it would become too hard to land on with 2.7x scale?

I replied to your post earlier, but I didn't specifically address the second part of your question.  Let's say we simply scaled up Tylo to 2.7x without making any of our other changes.  Would that make Tylo harder to land on?  The answer is yes and no.  Increasing Tylo's size and mass will increase approach and/or orbital velocities, thus requiring more breaking delta-v to execute a landing.  The difficulty is in getting that extra delta-v capability (more fuel, etc.) to Tylo in the first place.  But execution-wise, it's really not that much different.  Just a longer burn is all, but that's not an especially difficult problem to overcome.

Breaking from orbit just sets you up for the final descent and landing.  During the final descent phase, where you guide the vessel to a soft landing, all that really matters is the surface gravity.  The overall size of the body at that point is mostly irrelevant.  Stock Tylo and 2.7x Tylo both have the same surface gravity (0.8 g), so controlling the lander over that last short distance is going to play the same in either case.  And, to me, it's the final phase that's the real challenge with landing on Tylo.  So I would say it's probably not that much more difficult to land on Tylo at larger scales than it is at stock size.

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Curious what you guys recommend for associated part mods to compensate for the increased scale?

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We don't recommend any parts mods for dealing with the scale. It is a consensus (wide acceptance) among mod makers that stock engines are balanced for 2.5x. Their replica mods (like Bluedog Design Bureau, Tantares, Tundra Exploration) are such examples-- built for 2.5x.

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3 minutes ago, mkalaska said:

Curious what you guys recommend for associated part mods to compensate for the increased scale?

 

1 minute ago, JadeOfMaar said:

We don't recommend any parts mods for dealing with the scale. It is a consensus (wide acceptance) among mod makers that stock engines are balanced for 2.5x. Their replica mods (like Bluedog Design Bureau, Tantares, Tundra Exploration) are such examples-- built for 2.5x.

What about those which are listed as "recommend mods" in the OP? :)

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6 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

 

What about those which are listed as "recommend mods" in the OP? :)

The two recommendations: Eve Optimized Engines, and JX2 Antenna have nothing to do with the scale of the system, ;) but respectively:

  1. The greater sea level pressure at Eve (even in stock scale, untouched Eve, stock and MH provide no engines specialized for use there. The strongest stock SL engines are really only meant to lift big things from Kerbin).
  2. The span of the system: how far out the furthest planet is. At stock scale, you still need a mod with signal range past Eeloo when you add OPM or GPP. JX2 was purposely made for use with GPP. Because @Snark is awesome like that, and GPP tickled his fancy when most planet mods fall far short of holding his attention.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 6:54 PM, JadeOfMaar said:
  1. The span of the system: how far out the furthest planet is. At stock scale, you still need a mod with signal range past Eeloo when you add OPM or GPP. JX2 was purposely made for use with GPP. Because @Snark is awesome like that, and GPP tickled his fancy when most planet mods fall far short of holding his attention. 

Note also that antenna and DSN range can be extended via sliders in the game difficulty settings.  For JNSQ we recommend antenna range and DSN modifiers of 4x.  This will allow the best stock antennas to maintain a connection with Kerbin to just past the orbits of Eeloo and Hamek.  Although the JX2 is not an absolute necessity in that case, it will greatly increase the signal strength.  Extending range all the way to the planet Nara, however, requires both the 4x modifiers and the JX2 antenna (or a system of relays).

Of course you can use any combination of parts or antenna range modifiers that you want.  The best parts and settings are whatever sounds most fun to you.

 

Edited by OhioBob

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Well, some fantastic news, seems we're one step closer to this working with 1.7.1:

Kopernicus has released its new version. Now the wait begins anew! 

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On the DV chart, the moons Gilly, Dak, and Tam are represented as filled in circles, while all other celestial bodies are represented by hollow circles.  What is the significance of the filled in circles?

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1 hour ago, AG5BPilot said:

On the DV chart, the moons Gilly, Dak, and Tam are represented as filled in circles, while all other celestial bodies are represented by hollow circles.  What is the significance of the filled in circles?

Those are  < 100km wide and so are incredibly small.

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On 6/6/2019 at 9:30 AM, CoriW said:

Hello,

Just wondering if the Kerbalism compatibility provided in this mod is expected to extend to the Kerbalism 3.0 release when it comes out?

Kerbalism 3.0 just dropped today, and Kopernicus also updated, so now's a good time to fire it up and experiment!

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It looks like Kopernicus 1.7.1 is out.

Will JNSQ support new ground features from BG?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

It looks like Kopernicus 1.7.1 is out.

Will JNSQ support new ground features from BG?

We'll keep you posted. ;) It's very likely.

Edited by JadeOfMaar

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8 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

It looks like Kopernicus 1.7.1 is out.

Will JNSQ support new ground features from BG?

Not until I add the compatibility, but it will be supported.

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