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[1.8.1] JNSQ [0.9.0] [03 Feb 2020]


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15 minutes ago, Kwebib said:

First of all this mod is AWESOME. Thank you for the time and effort put into it.

Curiously, Eve is described as "exceptionally purple". Did I screw something up or does the description need to be updated (see imgur link).

https://imgur.com/ezQG3rU

You're just looking at the clouds.  You need to see what's below the clouds.

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17 minutes ago, Kwebib said:

First of all this mod is AWESOME. Thank you for the time and effort put into it.

Curiously, Eve is described as "exceptionally purple". Did I screw something up or does the description need to be updated (see imgur link).

https://imgur.com/ezQG3rU

Go to the surface. It tells you in the description that’s it’s the oceans and horizons. You can’t see those from orbit.

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19 hours ago, fragtzack said:

So to Bob and eberkain and all the other who say JNSQ is so balanced, please help by sharing your rocket design to achieve this mission.

The mission you described I would complete using 3 stages.  Two stages to get to low orbit, and a transfer stage to get to the final orbit.  We'll need about 5000 m/s to get to orbit, and about 2000 m/s for the upper stage.  Ideally I'd have about 2000-2500 m/s in the first stage, and 2500-3000 m/s in the second stage.  By the time we add a transfer stage to the 0.71t payload, we're probably up around a mass of 3t that we have to get to orbit.  That's pushing the limits of what can be done using 1.25-m parts at 1/4 real scale.

So the problem isn't that the parts are out of balance.  It's that you've staked the deck and selected a very specific set of requirements that falls between what can be normally achieved using 1.25-m parts versus having to jump up to 1.875-m or 2.5-m parts.  If you can't accomplish the mission using 1.25-m parts, then you have to use bigger parts.  That's what playing at larger scales like JNSQ is all about.  You have to forget about what you use to be able to do at stock scale and figure out what it takes to play at the larger scale.  If you can't accomplish the mission you want with the parts you have, you have to wait until you have the bigger parts.

I'm sure you would find the same problem at any scale you play.  There's always going to be some payload size that will to fall in the gaps between the available parts.  I can remember often trying to design a launcher in which it seemed the right size engine was nowhere to be found.  It has always been like that.

 

Edited by OhioBob
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For me it makes sense that the satellite does the final circulize on its own.  So doing it as a 2 stage I would want the second stage to go out to an Ap of 10Mm before burn out.   I ended up building this because it just wasn't going to work with 1.25m parts.   It is possible that the contract you took was more than what your available parts were able to achieve.   First stage has 2130 dv in atmo, second stage has 4200 dv.  Staging event occurs at about 40km going about 1500m/s.  Probe weighs in at 0.8t and has 970 dv, only needed about 550ish to do circulization.    Launch was controlled by kOS because flying manually doesn't really make any sense to me, its not like some guy at SpaceX headquarters is landing their rockets by using a joystick.   And FYI, I am pretty sure Starliner is going to have a twin engine second stage when it eventually flies to the ISS.  https://www.rocket.com/dual-rl10-engine-centaur-debuts-atlas-v-ensure-safe-launch-astronauts-low-earth-orbit 

Personally I find the balance to be fine in JNSQ, challenging but not impossible, but I did play a excrements ton of 3.2x scale with stock parts back a couple years ago. 

uxT1nOX.png              sG3VPcw.png      FjnrgMZ.png?1

Edited by eberkain
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5 hours ago, Kwebib said:

First of all this mod is AWESOME. Thank you for the time and effort put into it.

Curiously, Eve is described as "exceptionally purple". Did I screw something up or does the description need to be updated (see imgur link).

https://imgur.com/ezQG3rU

Do you have scatterer installed?  It's not a dependency of JNSQ and might be the difference.

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@fragtzack JNSQ only affects planets. The stock parts are balanced in such a way that they are extremely overpowered in stock scale. For realistically scaled rockets and payloads, 2.5x or JNSQ is recommended, as it requires you to make larger rockets, or use smaller payloads. From what it sounds like, you want 1.25m rockets to launch something other than super-small payloads. In JNSQ, this simply won't happen. Period. JNSQ is aimed at those of us who want more of a challenge than the stock game provides. The mod makers are not going to rebalance parts or the planet pack to suit your specific requirements. As Galileo said: Nobody is forcing you to play JNSQ.

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@fragtzack, the parts in JNSQ are not unbalanced.  They are just parts.  And it is up to the player to figure how to put them together to achieve their objectives.  If 1.25-m parts can't lift your payload, then your payload is too big for 1.25-m parts.  That's all there is to it.  Payload fractions in JNSQ are much smaller than they are in stock, so what you are accustom to doing in stock won't work here.  That's the whole point, JNSQ is made to be harder.  If it's too hard for you then don't play it.  I and others have no problem playing at this scale and doing so quite successfully.  We're not going to start modifying parts just because one person is having difficulty adjusting to the larger scale.

 

Edited by OhioBob
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9 hours ago, fragtzack said:

Yeah, expecting JNSQ career mode to be able to be played without extreme rocket designs is asking too much.

Let us assume for a moment that you being the only one with a major problem is not a clear indicator of where main issue lies. You do know that mission payouts, science returns, and reputation gains are all adjustable from within your career save settings if you think you're not getting enough of anything, right?

Edited by Tybot
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I took a few minutes to cobble together a rocket.  On my first attempt it came up just shy of completing @fragtzack's contract.  I needed another 14 m/s to raise to get the periapsis to the 7.44 Mm requirement.  Not bad though for so little effort.  BTW, the xenon gas is just ballast to get the payload weight right.  All the rocket parts are early 1.25-m tech.

i4SIYAs.jpg

dI8IA99.jpg

 

Edited by OhioBob
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@fragtzack 1) Galileo, Ohiobob, and the rest of the JNSQ team are some of the best modders the community has ever had and JNSQ itself is in my opinion, by far the best Planet Pack. I cannot play stock anymore. But that’s my opinion. However you shouldn’t be rude as you are. Especially when they do this work for free and your arnt obligated to play it.

2)You keep mentioning balance but I don’t get your issue. Do you think stock, where you can fly a Saturn 5 to Duna, is more balanced than JNSQ? 
 

3)Stock parts are trash anyways for the most part. Download @Nertea’s catalog along with bluedog design bureau and Tantares. Knes, Redirect, Habtech, Fuji are all also good and all far exceed the stock parts. 
 

4)When playing career on JNSQ, you have to Up the earnings and the comm network. It’s a must.

5) There is also the option of installing sigma dimensions and making it 10x and downloading Realism Overhaul and the mods that go with it if you want true balance.

6) If none of this means anything, you can download a Combo or Galileos Planet Pack (The first pack galileo made), Outer planets mod, and Grannus expansion pack. Those are all stock scale. And the Quality is almost as good. 

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I don't get the complaining.

If you don't like it, don't play it.

If you like it but want to give some feedback, this is not the way to do so.

I get we are on the forums and here that's all people can do, but still... Is your time so worthless that you can use it to do this?

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