# [1.8.1] JNSQ [0.9.0] [03 Feb 2020]

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Just now, panarchist said:

Scatterer needs to be the latest one - it'll work fine with 1.8.1. JNSQ has configs for EVE - you just need the mod and not the configs.

I see, maybe I'll just play with EVE, since I value my frames.

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I might install this later today, I'll notify if I have any issues with it.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, panarchist said:

Got it. Yeah, it would have to be 100% hydrogen to have any real lift capacity. I'd love to simulate it, but someone would need to write a better buoyancy plugin - HL Airships isn't really built to handle that scenario. I keep toying with the idea of writing one, but it's likely to be beyond my skills.

Just remember that it doesn't need to be very hot to have significant buoyancy.  The air on Nara is only about 40 K.

I did a little math...

Let's say we heat up the air inside a balloon on Earth to 100 °C warmer than the outside air.  The air outside would have a density of about 1.2 kg/m³ and the air inside about 0.9 kg/m³.  That gives us a buoyancy of about 3 N/m³.

On Nara let's say we heat the air inside the balloon to just 10 °C warmer (to 50 K) than the outside air.  This means that at the surface of Nara the air density on the outside is about 29.5 kg/m³ and on the inside about 23.6 kg/m³.  That gives us a buoyancy of about 58 N/m³.  Of course this changes dramatically as we ascend and the pressure drops.  Let's say the pressure drops to 1 atm (at an altitude of 40 km), and assuming we don't increase the temperature any further, then the buoyancy decreases to only 1.45 N/m³.  But suppose as we ascend we continue to heat the air all the way up to 200 K, which is still quite cold.  Our buoyancy at 1 atm of pressure would then be 5.8 N/m³, which is about double what a hot air balloon gets on Earth.

Edited by OhioBob
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1 hour ago, OhioBob said:

Just remember that it doesn't need to be very hot to have significant buoyancy.  The air on Nara is only about 40 K.

I did a little math...

Let's say we heat up the air inside a balloon on Earth to 100 °C warmer than the outside air.  The air outside would have a density of about 1.2 kg/m³ and the air inside about 0.9 kg/m³.  That gives us a buoyancy of about 3 N/m³.

On Nara let's say we heat the air inside the balloon to just 10 °C warmer (to 50 K) than the outside air.  This means that at the surface of Nara the air density on the outside is about 29.5 kg/m³ and on the inside about 23.6 kg/m³.  That gives us a buoyancy of about 58 N/m³.  Of course this changes dramatically as we ascend and the pressure drops.  Let's say the pressure drops to 1 atm (at an altitude of 40 km), and assuming we don't increase the temperature any further, then the buoyancy decreases to only 1.45 N/m³.  But suppose as we ascend we continue to heat the air all the way up to 200 K, which is still quite cold.  Our buoyancy at 1 atm of pressure would then be 5.8 N/m³, which is about double what a hot air balloon gets on Earth.

If Nara has 40.0atm pressure at sea level, then it works out to 53.85N of lift (our numbers are same ballpark), which is enough to lift 5.5kg of deadweight per m3 of lifting envelope. Assuming you're using the base atmo. 100% Helium would be negative 116N net lift, 100% Hydrogen would be 75.24N of lift - nearly a 50% improvement over "air".  In your scenario, by the time the airship reaches a height commensurate with 1atm of pressure, there is no significant difference in using H2 vs. "air", and even He will provide 4.3N/m3 of lift.

I have a spreadsheet I created specifically to do airship lift calculations on other planets with gravity / air mixes different than our own - I created it while writing a pulp-style short story about airship pirates for a gaming company. Hopefully it'll get published soon (the first one was), but it's back-burnered at the moment due to COVID-19 and the economics of 1-man game companies.

Anyway - it'd be pretty awesome to fly airships in Nara's atmosphere - just don't dip down too far if you're using Helium. ;-)

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2019 at 1:58 PM, Galileo said:

Requirements

• Minimum Hardware: 3 GHz quad-core CPU, 16GB of system RAM and 2GB of video memory

My computer doesn't meet these specs, but can I still use JNSQ? Does it just not run at all?

I'll add the specs of my laptop once I get to it.

Edited by alberro+
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1 hour ago, panarchist said:

I have a spreadsheet I created specifically to do airship lift calculations on other planets with gravity / air mixes different than our own - I created it while writing a pulp-style short story about airship pirates for a gaming company. Hopefully it'll get published soon (the first one was), but it's back-burnered at the moment due to COVID-19 and the economics of 1-man game companies.

That is awesome! Seems like a totally random thing to have a spreadsheet about, but fits right in with KSP fans.

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I try to plan transfers to other planets with Kerbal Alarm Clock. Is someone of you using this successfuly? New JNSQ planets get not any transfer date calculated for model.

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39 minutes ago, New Horizons said:

for model.

That's your problem. KAC's "model" option is effectively hard-coded for stock, since it's based on a spreadsheet of data collected from the stock system:

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if you download the transfer window planner it works

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Would anyone get upset if I used Roverdude's Orion Project engines for the rest of the JNSQ Exploration series?

To be fair, I'd have to assemble my pain trains in low Kerbin orbit, and use EVA Struts to make sure they don't turn into wet noodles. But after a trial run I just put together a ship with habitation, three unique landers including a Laythe space plane, and the Medusa engine, and ended up with 76 km/s in delta-v. And two gees of thrust.

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5 hours ago, New Horizons said:

I try to plan transfers to other planets with Kerbal Alarm Clock. Is someone of you using this successfuly?

Don't just use Kerbal Alarm Clock. Use Transfer Window Planner as well, which calculates transfers for the active system on the fly rather than rely on pre-loaded stock system transfer windows. TWP lets you create KAC alarms for your plotted transfers.

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1 hour ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Would anyone get upset if I used Roverdude's Orion Project engines for the rest of the JNSQ Exploration series?

Sounds fine to me.  Nuclear pulse engines are suppose to be part of KSP2, so I see no reason not to get a jump on it.

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1 hour ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Would anyone get upset if I used Roverdude's Orion Project engines for the rest of the JNSQ Exploration series?

I AM VERY ANGRY NOW! OBSERVE MY ANGRY FACE!

Nah, go for it.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Would anyone get upset if I used Roverdude's Orion Project engines for the rest of the JNSQ Exploration series?

To be fair, I'd have to assemble my pain trains in low Kerbin orbit, and use EVA Struts to make sure they don't turn into wet noodles. But after a trial run I just put together a ship with habitation, three unique landers including a Laythe space plane, and the Medusa engine, and ended up with 76 km/s in delta-v. And two gees of thrust.

Just be aware that the pulse rate was changed several versions ago and the pusher plate may or may not be in sync with the ejector. He also tweaked the thrust and it's kind of OP compared to his first release several years ago. I'm trying to balance it out with a MM patch, but haven't finished yet. Orion was supposed to have a 1 second pulse rate.

I built an interstellar craft a few years ago with that mod and used the "standard" Orion and 2 fuel units, and went to Cercani with something like 117 km/s of ΔV. It still took 11 years, but on the flip side, it *only* took 11 years, and no warp drive. Pretty sure I was using both regenerative life support AND DeepFreeze.

Edited by panarchist
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9 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Would anyone get upset if I used Roverdude's Orion Project engines for the rest of the JNSQ Exploration series?

To be fair, I'd have to assemble my pain trains in low Kerbin orbit, and use EVA Struts to make sure they don't turn into wet noodles. But after a trial run I just put together a ship with habitation, three unique landers including a Laythe space plane, and the Medusa engine, and ended up with 76 km/s in delta-v. And two gees of thrust.

Don't forget to refine it so it has less dv!

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18 hours ago, alberro+ said:

My computer doesn't meet these specs, but can I still use JNSQ? Does it just not run at all?

I'll add the specs of my laptop once I get to it.

It will work, it will just run a little bit slower.

Memory is probably the most important of these.  I play JNSQ on a computer that is slower than the specs, but I do have 16GB of RAM.

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6 minutes ago, coredumpster said:

It will work, it will just run a little bit slower.

Memory is probably the most important of these.  I play JNSQ on a computer that is slower than the specs, but I do have 16GB of RAM.

I've got 8GB (I think?)

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2 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

I've got 8GB (I think?)

If you want to find out, find 'MY PC', right click it and select properties i.e. if you are on windows

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3 minutes ago, VoidCosmos said:

If you want to find out, find 'MY PC', right click it and select properties i.e. if you are on windows

I know, but I'm not with my PC right now, so I really can't get the specs.

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1 hour ago, alberro+ said:

I know, but I'm not with my PC right now, so I really can't get the specs.

Okay then

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Just installed JNSQ, I'll notify if it works properly.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

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16 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

Just installed JNSQ, I'll notify if it works properly.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

All the best and enjoy!

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Posted (edited)

Hi there, today I enabled the strategy "To Boldly Go I" in JNSQ / Kerbalism installation (1.8.1). Unfortunately I could not receive any funds for discovering new biomes and sending that science. The science from the new biomes has been transmitted completely. In non-JNSQ installations I've never had problems and since JNSQ provides own Strategia configs I wanna know if someone else experienced this problem too?

If someone wants to peek into my logs / cache files: ksp.log, player.log and MM cache

Patsch

Edited by ThePatsch78
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Possibly stupid question but I haven't been able to find an solid answer yet.  Want to stick with KSP 1.9x but Im also wanting to dive into JNSQ and test myself.  So far it looks like a no with the hold up being Kopernicus not currently working with 1.9.  Has anyone had it successfully working with the latest version of KSP?

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3 minutes ago, GoatBOT said:

Possibly stupid question but I haven't been able to find an solid answer yet.  Want to stick with KSP 1.9x but Im also wanting to dive into JNSQ and test myself.  So far it looks like a no with the hold up being Kopernicus not currently working with 1.9.  Has anyone had it successfully working with the latest version of KSP?

Since Kopernicus is version locked, I decided to move to 1.8.1, and trust me, it's worth it.

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