St4rdust

KSP Loading... Preview: 1.7.3 Same Vessel Interactions

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I'm happy that Squad is willing to expand what we can do with the game, despite the likelihood of kraken posts. 

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Will the new version address the current lack of speed control using axis groups and robotic parts?

In short, yes, robotic parts can be made to rotate or move to a target position (whatever numerical value) more or less quickly. However, holding down an axis group key does not change *the target position* more or less quickly to match the part's speed, so for practical purposes, when using the "make part move while pressing key" mode, you can only make the part go slower than the default speed, not faster.

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14 minutes ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Will the new version address the current lack of speed control using axis groups and robotic parts?

You can setup these actions in KAL controller instead and bind it to axis groups. KAL can override the default speed of changing target values on robotic parts and do it much faster, almost instantaneously.

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Posted (edited)

can you make it so if you try to control a thing with multiple action axes, if it would mix the inputs?

Edited by Nuke

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9 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

Will the new version address the current lack of speed control using axis groups and robotic parts?

In short, yes, robotic parts can be made to rotate or move to a target position (whatever numerical value) more or less quickly. However, holding down an axis group key does not change *the target position* more or less quickly to match the part's speed, so for practical purposes, when using the "make part move while pressing key" mode, you can only make the part go slower than the default speed, not faster.

We would need analog inputs to do that effectively.  You CAN "trim" the controls for WASD (hold ALT while holding one of those keys),  Maybe additional trims might be possible. If you have an analog joystick you can get a few more analog controls. I haven't play with it in a long time to say exactly what is possible at the moment though,

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Excellent idea, love the "kerbal powered windmill"

I am more worried about bugs. Imagine an airbrake clipping into your wings, and somehow, the computer miscalculates the collision mesh

Good thing we ave the "default off" option though

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, pincushionman said:

*pulls up a folding chair and a bag of popcorn, and waits for the flood of Kraken posts*

Hold up, I bought a Stoma co. Chair for the waiting. How are you not uncomfortable?

Edited by Mikenike

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Awesome. The possibilities increase even more :) - If self-collision can be activated by action groups, i sense unlimited kraken power at the press of a button :D

Will this also have effect on docking crafts to themselves, like a module attached to a robotic arm, which is then docked to the craft?

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Posted (edited)

I used to see Challenge videos of KSP missions marked "SSTA to Eeloo via a Jool 5, no mining" Now we shall see new challenges such as "Huge interplanetary ship to Eeloo via Moho, no part clipping".

It's a good thing this remains an option to deactivate/activate though or it would completely change how the game works. I still understand why some purists hate part clipping though.

Edited by Quoniam Kerman

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Posted (edited)

I can only be excited about this if you're also (finally) adding a button to the toolbar that shows us action groups for the current vessel. Bonus points if it's a good clean UX based implementation.

Edit: Oh, and a "Activate same vessel interaction - All symmetry" or w/e button. Even the guy doing the small twitter clip didn't feel like setting it for every panel in the cog. Neither do we.

Edited by Jognt

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Some people seem worried about the bugs this will cause.

 

I'm excited about the bugs this will cause...

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24 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

I'm excited about the bugs this will cause...

I suspect that this will make Krakendrivestm from the past look like rather benign contraptions. Surely this can be used to propel something to solar escape velocity right from the launchpad, I bet.

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I am still not sure what that means I will be able to do. Could you please help?

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2 hours ago, Frozen_Heart said:

Some people seem worried about the bugs this will cause.

 

I'm excited about the bugs this will cause...

I have to write that one down... :D

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Hang on a second... Would same-vessel interaction make it possible to replace the current landingleg spring system with dockingportnode based modules to simulate the repulsion from two docking nodes that 'passed' eachother? If so I may finally be able to use decent landing legs!

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Posted (edited)

welp , i guess i can now rest in peace with this update:wink:

Edited by kspFan2019

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Posted (edited)
On 6/21/2019 at 7:29 AM, mindstalker said:

We would need analog inputs to do that effectively.  You CAN "trim" the controls for WASD (hold ALT while holding one of those keys),  Maybe additional trims might be possible. If you have an analog joystick you can get a few more analog controls. I haven't play with it in a long time to say exactly what is possible at the moment though,

Not at all. All that is required is a simple slider or check box that allows the player to match the "input speed" (the speed at which a keypress changes the value of the target position while held) to the robotic part's actual movement speed (as set by a slider already).

EDIT: Or, for that matter, in the "hold-key-to-make-part-move" (incremental control) mode, the game could just automatically match the two...

The point here is to fix a fairly blatant design problem with the current system: it does not fully implement a very basic thing a player wants to *DO* with the robotic parts - change how fast it moves when you press/hold a key.

The player expects (quite reasonably) that changing the traverse rate slider will make a part move faster/slower in incremental control mode. This does not work. You can make the part approach its "target extension" value more or less quickly, but you can't (currently) change the rate at which the "target extension" value itself changes in incremental mode. So pressing and holding key X  in incremental control mode can only make the part move at the default rate or slower. It should not need to be said, but: simply making a part go faster or slower is an obvious mechanic that should have an obvious control for it, and it absolutely should not require diving into the  non-intuitive complexity of the KAL controller.

So, one possible fix: in incremental control mode, pressing an axis group key to change the target extension value makes that value change in proportion to whatever traverse speed is set. Or I suppose you could make a slider to control the rate of change for the target extension value, for maximum flexibility. Or you could have a checkbox that says "match response speed to part speed," or whatever.

Edited by AccidentalDisassembly

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On 6/21/2019 at 8:23 AM, Mikenike said:

Hold up, I bought a Stoma co. Chair for the waiting. How are you not uncomfortable?

The Kraken cares nothing for your comfort!

*continues munching popcorn while his dog whines at him*

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1 hour ago, pincushionman said:

The Kraken cares nothing for your comfort!

Another one I need to write down... lmao.... :D

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The Kraken also cares nothing for YOUR discomfort @pincushionman

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Would be nice if toggles could be in the KAL controller. My first use of it is fairly simple, just an unfolding ramp, but it would be even smoother if the KAL track could include the hinge lock and motor toggles.

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A pin joint piece would also make hydraulic cylinders more usefull.

fig12.png

 

KSP Robotics isn`t complete without such a connection, hinges are okay, but hydraulics work mostly around free rotating pin joints.

Or did i miss something along the forum armageddon around the latest DLC ?!? :confused:

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Mikki said:

A pin joint piece would also make hydraulic cylinders more usefull.

fig12.png

 

KSP Robotics isn`t complete without such a connection, hinges are okay, but hydraulics work mostly around free rotating pin joints.

Or did i miss something along the forum armageddon around the latest DLC ?!? :confused:

Unfortunately KSP doesn’t allow parts to be connected to other parts like that. You can only attach a part to a single attachement node at a time.The other end of the hydraulic would just be floating in the air. 

The hydraulic parts would need to act like struts for that to work. 

Edited by MechBFP

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mikki said:

A pin joint piece would also make hydraulic cylinders more usefull.

fig12.png

 

KSP Robotics isn`t complete without such a connection, hinges are okay, but hydraulics work mostly around free rotating pin joints.

Or did i miss something along the forum armageddon around the latest DLC ?!? :confused:

 

3 hours ago, MechBFP said:

Unfortunately KSP doesn’t allow parts to be connected to other parts like that. You can only attach a part to a single attachement node at a time.The other end of the hydraulic would just be floating in the air. 

The hydraulic parts would need to act like struts for that to work. 

Squad wouldn't add that as a individual single piece. The part can be created though. I'm seeing a couple i beams or modular girders, a few unmotorized hinges, a couple cubic octo struts (for the nodes), and a hydraulic cylinder.

Edited by shdwlrd
Mobile...

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34 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

 

Squad wouldn't add that as a individual single piece. The part can be created though. I'm seeing a couple i beams or modular girders, a few unmotorized hinges, a couple cubic octo struts (for the nodes), and a hydraulic cylinder.

If it was all one piece then it would work.

You can’t create circles of any kind in the VAB because crafts are tree structures. 

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