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If Gilly had a space center, what benefits or disadvantages would it have?

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10 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

I was all excited when I first went there, but the hour-long descent at 1m/s (yes I am exagerating a little) convinced me to never go there again. In my 1000+ hours of KSP, I have only been there once.

True story: Gilly (and an unfortunate timing of my wanting the feature exactly when an update to the game broke all mods) is why I wrote WarpEverywhere. It's one of the few mods I never, ever go without (except when testing things in pure stock to file a bug report)

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On 6/21/2019 at 8:01 AM, Geschosskopf said:

Well, an 8km descent at 5m/s or 20m/s is still too long either way :)

Not if you intentionally burn towards the surface, especially if you're planning to refuel on the damn thing.

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On 6/21/2019 at 6:12 AM, 5thHorseman said:

True story: Gilly (and an unfortunate timing of my wanting the feature exactly when an update to the game broke all mods) is why I wrote WarpEverywhere. It's one of the few mods I never, ever go without (except when testing things in pure stock to file a bug report)

but imaging it, you can build world's first EVA space station!

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Posted (edited)

At the end of the day, lowG bodies do have an excellent use. If they have resources, they can be excellent ressuply stations. It is convenient to place mining and converting outposts on the surface there, as ferrying that fuel to a supply station above cost little delta-v. 

I have never done it on Gilly, but Minmus excels in that role and is always a part of my overall travel plans.  Every 1000 units of LF can be flown up with a 10% or 15% loss per flight more or less, which is excellent, making it worth while to create and ferry supplies to an orbital station there. And it being almost at the exit of Kerbin's SOI, it is indeed the best place from where to launch outwordly missions. I use TAC life support, and if I find water close to ore, even the life support consumables can be manufactured there (if all converters are used of course, which is a rather complex chain).

I guess Gilly could be considered the right spot for a similar operation, even if your space center is located in good old Kerbin. A complex production outpost there can be a refueling point, a stepping stone if you will, to missions all over the inner kerbol system with more lax delta-v budgets than missions launched directly from kerbin carrying everything it needs.

 

Edited by Daniel Prates

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Best tip I have heard with Gilly is you don't land on it you dock with it.  Really changes your mind set

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On 6/26/2019 at 11:14 AM, Nich said:

Best tip I have heard with Gilly is you don't land on it you dock with it.  Really changes your mind set

The first Gilly lander I made I put a claw on the bottom instead of legs. I thought it would grab the surface, but apparently the claw only acted that way with asteroids and parts, unfortunately. I still was vertical on the surface, though, not that it mattered anyway.

IMVhW8M.jpg

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Makes me wonder what the other best candidates for launch sites outside the Kerbin SOI are.  Good candidates seem like:

  • Ike.  Pretty low gravity, rapid rotation around Duna makes launch timing easy, Duna aerobraking can save delta-v on return trips ,somewhat central location in the system.  However, Duna's long orbital period means launch windows to the further-out planets are few and far between.  And it's pretty bumpy.  
  • Val.  Moderately low gravity, centrally located in Jool system, easy to land on, short orbital period.  Gravity assists and aerobraking (at Laythe) can help with return trips.  Biggest problem might be avoiding unwanted interactions with Tylo and Laythe on the way in/out.  Infrequent launch windows to other outer planets.
  • Pol.  Low delta-v needs for landing and takeoff, but not quite as hard to stay put on as Gilly.  Far enough out that you won't get those unwanted interactions.  Low-inclination orbit compared to Bop. Cons are a pretty long orbital period around Jool, and a surprisingly high delta-v requirement to transfer or circularize from lower Jool orbits.  Same launch window issue as Val.

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On 6/28/2019 at 7:43 PM, Aegolius13 said:

Makes me wonder what the other best candidates for launch sites outside the Kerbin SOI are.  Good candidates seem like:

  • Ike.  Pretty low gravity, rapid rotation around Duna makes launch timing easy, Duna aerobraking can save delta-v on return trips ,somewhat central location in the system.  However, Duna's long orbital period means launch windows to the further-out planets are few and far between.  And it's pretty bumpy.  
  • Val.  Moderately low gravity, centrally located in Jool system, easy to land on, short orbital period.  Gravity assists and aerobraking (at Laythe) can help with return trips.  Biggest problem might be avoiding unwanted interactions with Tylo and Laythe on the way in/out.  Infrequent launch windows to other outer planets.
  • Pol.  Low delta-v needs for landing and takeoff, but not quite as hard to stay put on as Gilly.  Far enough out that you won't get those unwanted interactions.  Low-inclination orbit compared to Bop. Cons are a pretty long orbital period around Jool, and a surprisingly high delta-v requirement to transfer or circularize from lower Jool orbits.  Same launch window issue as Val.

You forget that if you go towards the inner planets, you'll start falling into the Sun's gravity well, making destinations like Kerbin/Eve/Moho from Jool harder

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Posted (edited)
On 6/28/2019 at 9:13 AM, Aegolius13 said:

Makes me wonder what the other best candidates for launch sites outside the Kerbin SOI are.  Good candidates seem like:

It all depends on how you want to get there and what you want to do while there.

  • If you're just doing orbital Science swoops without landing, then there's really no point in refueling at all.  It's much simpler and usually cheaper just to pack enough fuel for the round trip.
  • If you're planning on an extended stay wide-spread surface exploration involving multiple landings, then adding ISRU doesn't have much effect on cost because this is already such an expensive mission but you can launch smaller, cheaper ships.  it does add a bit to the complexity but, again, that's already fairly high so not much harm done.  The main thing is, you'll likely want to send a flotilla of multiple ships as various components of the mission go to very different places.  If you're not used to doing flotillas, this might be daunting and it definitely complicates the initial departure.  However, it pays off bigtime for all the rest of the mission.

Of course, the further from home you're going, the more attractive refueling becomes even for mere orbital swoops, due to the cost of just getting out there.  But OTOH, beyond Duna (maybe Dres, if it even exists :D ), solar power is no longer sufficient to run the ISRU parts.  This leaves you with 2 choices.  I

  1. If you're stock, you have fuel cells.  Because fuel cells consume some of the fuel they make, you have to find relatively higher ore concentrations than you need closer in (and/or have highly skilled engineers) to enable your ISRUs  to make significantly more fuel than they consume--otherwise, it's just not practical.  Both of these are difficult requirements.  High ore concentrations are hard to find and usually in very inconvenient terrain.  And unless you have "instant experience" enabled, you can't get the highly skilled engineer without him already having been out there on a previous trip, with all the time and expense that requires.
  2. If you use mods, there are a number of nuclear reactors and such things.  Of course, these are heavy, expensive, and require their own cooling in addition to the ISRU's cooling.  So, your miners are necessarily going to be big, expensive ships, requiring massive lifters.  But OTOH, they can get by with lower ore concentrations and less-skilled crew.
Edited by Geschosskopf

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On 6/20/2019 at 12:09 PM, cantab said:

Despite the very low delta-V to orbit, Gilly might not be the best placed overall. The problem is that Eve's mass and Gilly's awful orbit means it takes a surprising amount of delta-V, around 450 m/s, to depart Gilly and get a low Eve periapsis required for efficiently going interplanetary. Compared to Kerbin you're also then further away from places, except for Moho. And Eve itself, while not too hard to land on, is very demanding to return from.

I'd propose Minmus as the best homeworld. Despite being a larger body than Gilly, it actually takes less delta-V to go from the surface of Minmus to a low Kerbin periapsis for your interplanetary departure burns. Overall I think everywhere except Moho and Eve is cheaper on dV starting at Minmus compared to Gilly. Many missions have shown a Minmus fuel stop to be very good for interplanetary flight. Closer to home, you have the Mun as an easy starting landing target though you'll need to deal with transfer windows. Kerbin itself will be quite challenging but not as bad as Eve as a parent planet.

These advanced delta-V charts are good for working out this kind of stuff. And really any mission where you're flying between various places rather than just going from and back to Kerbin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalAcademy/comments/1qu5jv/deltav_charts/

 

Technically true. But Minmus orbital period is too long, so it can be tricky to place the Kerbin periapsis at the right place at the right time. The Mun has higher gravity but has a shorter orbital period and orbits in an equatorial orbit.

In other words, if planned and done perfectly (or nearly so), yes, it's very useful and saves about 500 dV. But if it's not done just right, the savings obtained can be lost to an inaccurate interplanetary burn.

However, if a refueling station is combined with an off world construction mod, it's easier to build non aerodynamically shaped stuff offworld and send them their way from the Mun or Minmus, as you don't have to deal with an atmosphere.

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Gilly is the ideal location for the KHP: Kerbal Hydraulic Program. Who needs engines?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Klapaucius said:

Gilly is the ideal location for the KHP: Kerbal Hydraulic Program. Who needs engines?

 

 

so this is how the new generation launches probes... KRAKEN THOSE KIDS AND THEIR ROBOTICS! WERE IS MY SWINGING CHAIR!

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On Gilly, the ant engine can lift 20 tonnes with a TWR of 2. All of which is payload because it only needs 40 m/s of delta-V to reach escape velocity.

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14 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

On Gilly, the ant engine can lift 20 tonnes with a TWR of 2. All of which is payload because it only needs 40 m/s of delta-V to reach escape velocity.

A TWR of 2 on Gilly results in 0.1 m/s/s acceleration though. Still sadistic.

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