IkranMakto

Helicopter with swashplate (Breaking Ground)

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Posted (edited)

 

KSP 1.7.2(Now 1.7.3) and TweakScale used.
I've played this game more than 3 years and that helicopter and it's swashplate are my best work.
Almost 6 month ago I created a helicopter with Infernal Robotics and huge internal swashplate, but it was difficult to fly because of incremental control and some freezes of the game. Breaking Grounds inspired new life in this old vehicle...
EY-30
It's kind of a semi-copy of Mi-26

Parts: 180
Main rotor diameter - 25.8 m (8 blades) 110-140 rpm
Tail rotor diameter    - 6.3 m (6 blades)   160-220 rpm
Total Length - 33 m
Dry weight - 29.1 ton
Max takeoff weight - 40 ton
Max speed - 50 m/s horisontaly and 70-80 descending 
Fuel - 134, oxidizer - 164(3 tons)
Power exchange: Fuel+oxidizer --> generating electric energy --> battery --> rotations
Consumption - about 0.03/s

Controls:
1 - start engines
Throttle - angle of blades and motor speed of main and tail rotor
Q-E  roll
W-S pitch
A-D turn
Recomended to use joystick!
1.7.2 Craft file 
1.7.3 Craft file  ! important !

+bonus video about how swashplate works! You can see blade flapping 

9tnR4dk.png
yJxf9x5.png

8i1EBJL.png

 

Edited by IkranMakto
Game update

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 Extremely impressive. 

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22 hours ago, IkranMakto said:

It's kind of a semi-copy of Mi-26

I saw that as soon as I saw the photos

Recomended to use joystick!-just like a cyclic control

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1 hour ago, Flying dutchman said:

still can't figure out how this swashplate works, what are the hinges atached too?

Imagine it as vertical:

Piston(Z) --> hinge(X)+hinge(Y) --> free rotor --> small hinges(x8, offset out of free rotor) --> struts(x8) --> small hinges(x8, offset on blade) 

It replicates real mechanism, but simplified to improve performance and modified to make it working in the game. There's a fine line between swashplate and just randomly dancing rotor

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Downloading right now, totally gonna go under the hood and see how you made this beast!

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How did you get joystick to manipulate pistons? My KSP considers Joystick pitch and keyboard pitch to be two separate things?

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10 hours ago, Pds314 said:

How did you get joystick to manipulate pistons? My KSP considers Joystick pitch and keyboard pitch to be two separate things?

Joystick doesn't manipulate pistons directly. There's only one piston and it related to main throttle. Pitch and roll are two hinges with limited angle clipped in each other with free axle on them. Also clipped inside. In result we have kind of rotating and tilting disc. But with no real disc, it's just offseted mini-hinges. 

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How many tons do you think you could make this guy lift? Also, opinions on the new propeller blades?

Edited by Avera9eJoe

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22 hours ago, Avera9eJoe said:

How many tons do you think you could make this guy lift? Also, opinions on the new propeller blades?

8 tons or so. I dont think you can put heavier payload in cargobay, except it's fuel or ore tanks.

Update for helicopter is a crap. Two new engines are overpowered, I used only 3-5% of power on smaler one(MK1) to fly almost 5t simple heli. With new blades of course. Imagine what could do heavier one. And when one blade hitted ground... I just continued flying. So realistic :\ Having just a little woble.

Blades... there're 3 sizes: tiny, small and large. No life without tweakscale. Each produces much more lift and much less drag than it should. Because drag point placed near blade base and lift point... you see.
7b858eel.jpg

what we have when blade is straight and segmented. More speed on tips and accordingly more lift. 


wM2IFXRl.png

Edited by IkranMakto

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1.7.3 update
Seems like developers increased torque and speed of every motor so old version craft works now incorrect. Download update in main post to enjoy your flight!
Also "rpm limit" is now works like truly flat limit instead of someting like dividing both angular velosity and torque. 
* main rotor max 150 rpm, minimum operating 110 rpm, avg 130-140. 
* tail rotor 180-210 rpm
* max payload 9 tons, possible to lift above 500 m
* increased strength of axles due to changes in 1.7.3, so maybe bigger helicopter comes next. 

Edited by IkranMakto

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On 7/14/2019 at 5:50 PM, IkranMakto said:

8 tons or so. I dont think you can put heavier payload in cargobay, except it's fuel or ore tanks.

Update for helicopter is a crap. Two new engines are overpowered, I used only 3-5% of power on smaler one(MK1) to fly almost 5t simple heli. With new blades of course. Imagine what could do heavier one. And when one blade hitted ground... I just continued flying. So realistic :\ Having just a little woble.

Blades... there're 3 sizes: tiny, small and large. No life without tweakscale. Each produces much more lift and much less drag than it should. Because drag point placed near blade base and lift point... you see.

Noticed the same. KSP doesn't account for rotation in Z axis when calculating lift. The new parts would be way better with FAR but with stock aerodynamics... well yeah, I guess modding in some segmented blade parts is in order.

I was actually working on a mini mod (configs only, since I don't have 3d modeling skills) for turboshaft engines, where stock jets were modified to produce little thrust, as well as a new "energy" resource (so that based on its rate you could do power balancing) and "driven" rotors that ate this resource instead of electricity. This allowed for main and tail rotor to be driven by the same engine. Still, the new parts do introduce some possibilities. I will try incorporating them into this scheme. Maybe even write some plugin that would tie the "free" power generated by the new turboshaft engines to the power consumed by their own rotor. Maybe even some sounds while we're at it.

Also, if someone could check and confirm: I'm pretty sure the lift vector is literally reversed on the small prop parts.

As a side note, I managed to make a smaller helicopter (1.25 fuselage size) using your method of designing control rods (two hinges connected by a strut) by modding the parts I used for blade elements to have artificially high lift. I also gave up on collective for the tail rotor and just directly controlled rotor servos instead. I've also introduced flap and lead-lag hinges into the rotor blade design, as I noticed it actually calmed down the Kraken a bit. The increase in lift was necessary was because the speed had to be around 100-120 RPM max, otherwise even at the lowest physics dt the blades wouldn't keep up with the movement of the pusher rod. Even as it is I had to rotate the whole swashplate assembly because the struts aren't a real physics constraint (they're force-based instead, otherwise the tree structure of the vessel wouldn't be possible) and the hinges used to tilt the swashplate have a lot of off-axis flexibility, so the blade pitch lags around 60-70 degrees behind the value expected from the geometry. If the small heli parts were to be modded in, they'd have to have ridiculous lift, just like the stock parts (possibly with some way of poisoning it if someone tries to cheat and use it outside of its application).

So yeah, segmentation of the blade is what gives a lot of potential to the stock helicopter flight model even with stock aerodynamics. With FAR, the only thing that wouldn't be simulated would be VRS and ETL, as well as ground effect - all of those would either require real time CFD (lmao) or special treatment within FAR code.

Edited by m4ti140

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1 hour ago, m4ti140 said:

I was actually working on a mini mod (configs only, since I don't have 3d modeling skills) for turboshaft engines, where stock jets were modified to produce little thrust, as well as a new "energy" resource (so that based on its rate you could do power balancing) and "driven" rotors that ate this resource instead of electricity.

What about jet engine based electric generator? Simple and useful. Low thrust, a lot of energy.
...And I was really surprised why new motors are completely silent. Your idea could solve this problem.
 

1 hour ago, m4ti140 said:

I've also introduced flap and lead-lag hinges into the rotor blade design, as I noticed it actually calmed down the Kraken a bit.

No need for that hinges while joints and hinges still look like rubber. Simplify it instead of making realistic
 

1 hour ago, m4ti140 said:

using your method of designing control rods (two hinges connected by a strut)

Note that some hinges should be locked and placed away from the blade
 

1 hour ago, m4ti140 said:

I also gave up on collective for the tail rotor and just directly controlled rotor servos instead

I had to make it for my early Mi-26 before BG was released(with IR). Just 15 details more for 6-blade rotor

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