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I've run into the robotic arm spazzing out/locking up problem and after auto strutting (and turning it off as well to test it) as well as downloading Kerbal Joint Reinforcement to try and solve the issue i've run into a wall about what to do. The main issue is that either when i have something attached to the arm (the Union Node from Habtech 2). IS this just a KSP issue that is ingrained into the physics of the game or is there a way around it. 

Sorry if this was a silly or stupid question.

 

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3 minutes ago, lburn318 said:

I've run into the robotic arm spazzing out/locking up problem and after auto strutting (and turning it off as well to test it) as well as downloading Kerbal Joint Reinforcement to try and solve the issue i've run into a wall about what to do. The main issue is that either when i have something attached to the arm (the Union Node from Habtech 2). IS this just a KSP issue that is ingrained into the physics of the game or is there a way around it. 

Sorry if this was a silly or stupid question.

 

i am not quite sure what you are talking about, but if you are talking about the arm flapping around the cargo bay during launch/landing then just enable same vessel interaction on the arm and the bay

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16 minutes ago, moguy16 said:

i am not quite sure what you are talking about, but if you are talking about the arm flapping around the cargo bay during launch/landing then just enable same vessel interaction on the arm and the bay

Sorry I should be more specific. An example of what i have been experiencing is when I’m moving a space craft out of the bay with the arm. The arm itself become wobbly and begins to flip around either the elbow joint (of the robotic arm) or the shoulder joint. My intent is to (what I assume most are too) is build an ISS replica and use the arm to maneuver the modules i into place whether that be by attaching the module to the shuttles own docking port or other wise. 

Edited by lburn318
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23 minutes ago, moguy16 said:

maybe increase traverse rate or dampener? 

Oh ok I thought I may have monkeyed with that earlier but I’ll try again, there is a good chance I could’ve missed something. So I can assume that the arm wiggling uncontrollably while in orbit isn’t normal?

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3 minutes ago, lburn318 said:

Oh ok I thought I may have monkeyed with that earlier but I’ll try again, there is a good chance I could’ve missed something. So I can assume that the arm wiggling uncontrollably while in orbit isn’t normal?

i am not quite sure, but what the damper does is that it try to lesson the movement of the arm AFAIK, so that could help, 

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8 minutes ago, moguy16 said:

i am not quite sure, but what the damper does is that it try to lesson the movement of the arm AFAIK, so that could help, 

Well I will try that next time in tinkering maybe I’ve neglected something. 
Thanks!

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7 minutes ago, lburn318 said:

Oh ok I thought I may have monkeyed with that earlier but I’ll try again, there is a good chance I could’ve missed something. So I can assume that the arm wiggling uncontrollably while in orbit isn’t normal?

Robotics are notoriously wobbly and buggy in general in this game so unfortunately can be quite frustrating to work with. You want to bring the torque and traverse rate down to pretty much as low as it possibly can go and just take things extremely slowly (like they do with the real arm). With that much mass on the end of the arm, oscillation can build up quite quickly and KSP's joints are just too flexible to be able to arrest it without compounding the problem. I also like to bind locking the joints and enabling autostrut to action groups so that I can easily lock the whole arm. You'll want lock and unlock on separate action groups rather than using a toggle because otherwise you can end up in a situation where not all of the joints lock simultaneously, and then the next time you toggle to unlock you're actually locking some of the joints. Can get very messy. 

It's unfortunate that Breaking Ground didn't go a bit further with the robotics. They desperately need to be stronger and more stable and a better control method for robot arms is sorely missing. We really need an IK controller for this sort of thing but all attempts at that seem to be dead in the water unfortunately. 

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6 minutes ago, benjee10 said:

It's unfortunate that Breaking Ground didn't go a bit further with the robotics. They desperately need to be stronger and more stable and a better control method for robot arms is sorely missing. We really need an IK controller for this sort of thing but all attempts at that seem to be dead in the water unfortunately. 

Actually, given that the real arm would shred itself if it was even capable of producing torques this one can in KSP (and it isn't), I'd say it is not a big problem. All other robotic arm mods had the same problems, save for those that were a single part, which wobbled themselves off at the joint instead. That's real physics, and that's why IRL they take things slowly with the arm.

Can limits on rates of traverse be customized? I think tuning that would help. I've played around with the arm, and found it a bit tricky, but fun to use. Also, when bringing a part around for docking, it's a good idea to reduce the docking port force. Extendable ring on the docking port would likely help, as well, but I haven't tried it with ports that have this feature, yet.

I agree about the control method, though. Manually fiddling with each motor is annoying. The real thing does have something like IK, although it may also be possible to command specific angles on each joint, for preplanned arm operations.

Edited by Guest
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9 minutes ago, benjee10 said:

Robotics are notoriously wobbly and buggy in general in this game so unfortunately can be quite frustrating to work with. You want to bring the torque and traverse rate down to pretty much as low as it possibly can go and just take things extremely slowly (like they do with the real arm). With that much mass on the end of the arm, oscillation can build up quite quickly and KSP's joints are just too flexible to be able to arrest it without compounding the problem. I also like to bind locking the joints and enabling autostrut to action groups so that I can easily lock the whole arm. You'll want lock and unlock on separate action groups rather than using a toggle because otherwise you can end up in a situation where not all of the joints lock simultaneously, and then the next time you toggle to unlock you're actually locking some of the joints. Can get very messy. 

It's unfortunate that Breaking Ground didn't go a bit further with the robotics. They desperately need to be stronger and more stable and a better control method for robot arms is sorely missing. We really need an IK controller for this sort of thing but all attempts at that seem to be dead in the water unfortunately. 

Thanks!!

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On 4/3/2020 at 3:53 AM, benjee10 said:

Robotics are notoriously wobbly and buggy in general in this game so unfortunately can be quite frustrating to work with. You want to bring the torque and traverse rate down to pretty much as low as it possibly can go and just take things extremely slowly (like they do with the real arm). With that much mass on the end of the arm, oscillation can build up quite quickly and KSP's joints are just too flexible to be able to arrest it without compounding the problem. I also like to bind locking the joints and enabling autostrut to action groups so that I can easily lock the whole arm. You'll want lock and unlock on separate action groups rather than using a toggle because otherwise you can end up in a situation where not all of the joints lock simultaneously, and then the next time you toggle to unlock you're actually locking some of the joints. Can get very messy. 

It's unfortunate that Breaking Ground didn't go a bit further with the robotics. They desperately need to be stronger and more stable and a better control method for robot arms is sorely missing. We really need an IK controller for this sort of thing but all attempts at that seem to be dead in the water unfortunately. 

Breaking Ground Mini Mods helps to some degree. It's not an IK controller as that's beyond my abilities, but it takes snapshots and has grouped control of the robotics parts under one roof:

I ran into the same issues as really wobbly arms and agree that KSP desparately needs stronger joints for them. But with those issues, Benjee10's shuttle arm is truly awesome. :)

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how do i catch something with the arn? if it in the payload bay it doesn't connect, and when i decouple it flys away as if something hit it with a bat (happens to both small and big payloads) and when it's outside it's impossible to move the arm fast enough to catch the object even with 0 relative velocity between the 2 vessels

Edited by moguy16
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Enable same-vessel interaction. You may need to turn on advanced tweakables. I had the same problem, didn't expect it to work, but it did. Also remember that the end effector needs to dock in a very precise orientation. Best to add a roll joint just before it and just rotate it into the right position.

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9 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Enable same-vessel interaction. You may need to turn on advanced tweakables. I had the same problem, didn't expect it to work, but it did. Also remember that the end effector needs to dock in a very precise orientation. Best to add a roll joint just before it and just rotate it into the right position.

i do have both of those on, and the problem sill persists 

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Do you have it on both docking ports? If not, then it's a matter of orientation. The way I did it was to first press the end effector against the PDGF, and then slowly rotate it around its axis until it catches.

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2 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Do you have it on both docking ports? If not, then it's a matter of orientation. The way I did it was to first press the end effector against the PDGF, and then slowly rotate it around its axis until it catches.

the yellow "block" on end effector should be aligned with the line on the grapple right? even then it did not work

 

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Yes. It needs to be aligned very precisely, too. Try rotating it past that position. It usually worked for me, though KSP docking ports can be rather finicky. It is very possible it randomly decided to just not work, thanks to a KSP bug.Try moving it away and back in, stuff like that.

Also, make sure you have the effector attached the right way. :) 

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1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Yes. It needs to be aligned very precisely, too. Try rotating it past that position. It usually worked for me, though KSP docking ports can be rather finicky. It is very possible it randomly decided to just not work, thanks to a KSP bug.Try moving it away and back in, stuff like that.

Also, make sure you have the effector attached the right way. :) 

it still isn't working, can i send you the save and you try? 

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I'm unlikely to get to it any time soon, unfortunately. It worked for me most of the time, except the first time I tried it. One last thing, was same vessel interaction enable in VAB or in flight?

You can try removing the angle restrictions from config, that should make it more reliable. You may need to relaunch the craft afterwards.

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