dnbattley

The battery-less movement thread

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9 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Oooo!

How jittery are the K-drives? If they are less jittery than the old ones, well... I may just have to make a K-drive interplanetary mothership...

I tried out my first this morning. My observations were:

Really smooth up until 300m. Then it flipped out when the drive was engaged.

You can accelerate by toggling SVI. When you are over 300m you can regain control by de-toggling SVI.

I also made a ladder drive, but I don't think that counts (as this is about abusing BG.)

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4 minutes ago, fulgur said:

I tried out my first this morning. My observations were:

Really smooth up until 300m. Then it flipped out when the drive was engaged.

You can accelerate by toggling SVI. When you are over 300m you can regain control by de-toggling SVI.

I also made a ladder drive, but I don't think that counts (as this is about abusing BG.)

I also just experimented with a k-drive design which successfully traverses the 300m barrier (whereupon it surges forward) and for some reason continues to accelerate even faster at higher altitudes. By LKO it has an estimated TWR of at least 15x or so. I'll post photos and the craft file tomorrow.

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Infiniglide, Kraken Drive, Ladderforce, and now this....
Any chance at free power, a  KSP community member will find it

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Et voilá - I present the Kraken Drive Mk 3 Lite

mehZqlo.png

The Infini-K-Drive of the Kraken Drive Mk3 Lite enables take off and landing on Kerbin without any electrical power. The normal ascent profile is to point straight upwards, with full throttle providing a gentle ascent to about 250m, then very rapid acceleration (throttling back is essential to avoid self-incineration) up to 20k, then coasting above the atmosphere, before heading where required (achieving orbit is not necessary).

Here, the craft was cheated to Tylo orbit, and landed, to quickly test its performance landing without an atmosphere. Slowing down from orbital speeds is easy, but final touchdown is somewhat fiddly due to the very sensitive nature of the powerful drive: the structural panels offer a sufficiently generous impact tolerance, however, to make this work.

pd9ODRV.png

Electrical usage (for stabilisation) is required only where there is no atmosphere - twin solar panels are deployed to ensure this doesn't drain the battery.

Interestingly after taking off from Tylo the gentle ascent speed (10-20 m/s) continued up to c.2k, after which the high acceleration took over.

l6ceXup.png

Acceleration forces of 38G suggest this may not be the most comfortable way of flying.

Craft file:

https://kerbalx.com/dnbattley/Kraken-Drive-Mk3-Lite

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I am pleased to present what may be my most bizarre - and possibly greatest - battery-less creation so far: The Magic Carpet Mk1

OQRhw5n.png

Controlled, as you can see, via landing wheels and elevons, it is capable (in theory, at least) of both low level flight and interplanetary travel.

I wont pretend it doesn't require some effort (due, in part, to limitations inherent in the axis controls), but with rudimentary pitch and yaw control, as well as vertical and horizontal translation, it is possible to fly with some moderate control even without any reaction wheels.

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On 7/31/2019 at 12:04 AM, Ultimate Steve said:

How jittery are the K-drives?

 It feels the same, but now that you say it, I really didn't see the crazy bouncing of the landing gear.  We'll need to put one under stress and see.  Hey, now that they're one-piece they can survive timewarp (I'm guessing).

 Cuz it's summer here I'm not doing as much KSP.  I'll get back into it come autumn.  I do like this thread.

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My current obsession with K-drive technology continues to yield reportable outcomes: the Magic Carpet, now on it's 3rd iteration, was taken for its inaugural spin this evening, and the mission was a complete success with all phases: launch -> orbit -> Kerbin escape -> retrograde orbit -> targeted approach -> safe landing, all completing successfully in a single take.

The key innovation in the Magic Carpet range has been achieving true yaw/pitch control using only Kraken drive™ technology, rendering reaction wheels practically unnecessary and thus achieving true "battery-less" flight. The main thrust continues to develop unbelievable thrust (max recorded acceleration was 29G on this occasion), and while there are some potential improvements I can still make to its rather twitchy handling the upper atmosphere, I am coming close to a point where this project might be considered "complete" - at least until I regain the ability to record videos of the Magic Carpet in action (hopefully sometime later this month).

Full mission report here: https://imgur.com/a/RBuzIsx

ByVAVHK.png

Craft file: https://kerbalx.com/dnbattley/Magic-Carpet-Mk3

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I shan't bother posting photos, but tonight I was able to take the Magic Carpet Mk4 (which makes primarily cosmetic improvements to Mk3, but also adjusts the KAL control system slightly and moves the command chair to below the main fuselage to more easily avoid crisping up Jeb under acceleration) on a longer mission to Eve - which, with the unlimited delta-V available, allowed me to arrive into stable Eve orbit a mere 9 days after launch. While atmospheric heating was a non issue (I could easily zero out velocity just before hitting the atmosphere), an ambitious sea landing under K-Power alone proved to be too much to ask (I will have to add a parachute!) and resulted in one of the drives becoming damaged (which, in turn, created a torque on thrust which made the vessel uncontrollable).

However, the mission did successfully test the K-Drive through extended timewarps (across multiple SOIs, and including the descent into Eve during which I successfully tested its manoeuvring capability at x4 physical timewarp) with no ill-effects. I was unable to attempt an Eve take off on this version due to the damage on landing, but that will be the next milestone, after which it should definitively be capable of infinite travel anywhere within the Kerbol system...

...well ok, one photo, just for lols:

xRCFOU7.png

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Posted (edited)

 

One further postscript: on a whim I just tried to see if engine vectoring could be used to generate K-power, and in short it does, but only on a few engine types (most notably the vector)! I will definitely be investigating this further...

VQ8JTPo.png

Edited by dnbattley
Wrong photo inserted

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10 hours ago, vitekc45c said:

Technicaly battery-free K-drive that can pull 36 to 37 Gs, in only 8 parts.

Welcome to the movement! I am away from my computer to take a look at this at the moment, but is the piston not controlling the acceleration? If so then I'm afraid the battery in the probe core is critical in driving that, with the RTGs recharging that.

You have mastered the fundamental design of the Kraken Drive, however, and so I look forward to seeing where you take it next!

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Just now I discovered this thread. Scrolled through the pictures. What mad contraptions am I seeing?! :confused:
Amazing are the possibilities with such a teeny addition to the game. Keep them coming everyone!

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I will definitely be trying these new K-Drive designs.

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So just now I was accelerating towards Eve at a velocity of over 25,000m/s using my K-Drive craft. I was halfway through my latest node when I stopped accelerating. Instead, the landing legs merely pushed the plate away from them. Nothing I did - a quickload, a load from the KSC, retracting and extending the gear AND toggling everything to no SVI and back - re-started my K-Drive. Val was left on a trajectory which was about a thousand metres per second away from hitting Eve SOI.

Does anyone know why this may be?

My K-Drive ship separating from the booster. It is operated by extending the gear into the reaction wheel, engaging SVI on the gear and then toggling it on the wheel. Inside the fairing is Val and a RTG.

d2uyRVA.png

Admittedly it isn't battery-less, but the only thing I am using the batteries for is reaction wheels.

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1 hour ago, fulgur said:

Does anyone know why this may be?

Hmmm... You seem to have covered the same diagnostics I'd try, but one other thing is to try time warp after disabling SVI for both sides of the drive and see if that "snaps" anything back into position that has been pushed out.

If course it may be that you have discovered a top end speed limit of the K-drive tech, after which the K bites back... ;)

If you share the save game I'd be happy to root around in there and see if I can see anything amiss in the vessel config, though that is potentially a long shot.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, dnbattley said:

If course it may be that you have discovered a top end speed limit of the K-drive tech, after which the K bites back...

The other thing I did was to [F12] back to LKO and see if the Kraken re-awakened. He stayed dormant.

The council of Invokers of the Kraken is highly annoyed. The KSC is even more annoyed because Val is now on a trajectory to the heart of Kerbol.

I tried it again with a probe. This time it happened as I was beginning my maneuver, at only 10,000m/s.

Edited by fulgur

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I made this a while back but is already obsolete since we have same vessel interactions now. Oh well...

 

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On 8/26/2019 at 11:04 AM, Jon144 said:

I made this a while back but is already obsolete since we have same vessel interactions now. Oh well...

Very cool! I sometimes wonder how much "lostech" knowledge there is around the forum where contraptions have been discovered, explored, and then forgotten. It seems as if the design is fundamentally identical to the K-drives above, but as two separate crafts presumably timewarp was not possible, which would have limited its value beyond that of a curiosity.

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9 minutes ago, dnbattley said:

Very cool! I sometimes wonder how much "lostech" knowledge there is around the forum where contraptions have been discovered, explored, and then forgotten. It seems as if the design is fundamentally identical to the K-drives above, but as two separate crafts presumably timewarp was not possible, which would have limited its value beyond that of a curiosity.

Exactly. If I was sooner this would have revolutionized K-drive travel. I haven't seen a K-drive around that could be re-docked so effortlessly. But as soon as I release it an update comes and makes that tech unnecessary. I was so happy when I discovered this mechanism which could re-dock the two separate pieces so that I could time-warp with impunity. 

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Gods, I wish I found this thread earlier. I've been experimenting with K-drives for like 40 hours. Kind of surprised I don't see much use of pistons here. I thought that pistons+legs was the only way. Landing gear kept unloading after 3 or 4 pulses. Found that gravity and vessel mass do weird things to landing legs. All of my drives work with specific vessel masses. If a drive works with 5.6t vessel then it won't be usable with anything lighter or heavier. Although part number and arrangement don't matter.

https://kerbalx.com/kuklerrr/K-Drive-16 My latest creation.

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August is over, but I have had the opportunity to return to KSP after something of a hiatus, and present my Tamed Kraken Spaceplane: veering away from true battery-less activity with some traditional SAS assistance (though I have some other ideas I'll be working on to advance that side of things), it takes the K-drive above to it's logical limit with a VERY easy and fun to fly spaceplane.

 

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On 8/21/2019 at 12:38 AM, fulgur said:

The other thing I did was to [F12] back to LKO and see if the Kraken re-awakened. He stayed dormant.

The council of Invokers of the Kraken is highly annoyed. The KSC is even more annoyed because Val is now on a trajectory to the heart of Kerbol.

I tried it again with a probe. This time it happened as I was beginning my maneuver, at only 10,000m/s.

I have found and squashed this bug: when thrusting in Kerbol SOI (particularly high SOI), the K-drive wheel breaks almost instantly. This doesn't happen in any planetary SOI (as far as my testing has determined).

Therefore the solution is i) to make sure you are travelling from one planetary SOI to another wherever possible and/or ii) bring along an engineer...

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Okay, but this happened to me in Kerbin's SoI.

Also, what mechanism did you use for that spaceplane?

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20 minutes ago, fulgur said:

Okay, but this happened to me in Kerbin's SoI.

Also, what mechanism did you use for that spaceplane?

Hmmm, strange then.

It was based on three LY-05 landing gears and an inflatable airlock...

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