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[New] Space Launch System / Orion Discussion Thread

ZooNamedGames

By ZooNamedGames
in Science & Spaceflight

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tater

tater

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Space Nerd said:

Am I the only one who thinks SLS looks better than starship?

I think Block 1, and any SLS with Orion on top is pretty ugly.

Full diameter cargo SLS? Nice looking.

sls_bl1b__2.jpg

 

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Dirkidirk

Dirkidirk

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Space Nerd said:

Am I the only one who thinks SLS looks better than starship?

(Seriously, I like SLS mostly because of it's look and the kerbal factor.)

well yeah, it do be lookin fresh. fresher than starship tho?

12 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

IMO, Starship is better both visually and functionally. It's literally a 1950s sci-fi rocket come true :P

but at the same time that's like saying that a tesla model X looks better than a Fiat 124 Spider, I think...

7 minutes ago, Space Nerd said:

To me, the look of starship will need some time to get used to, because it's so "new":D

same.

Edited by Dirkidirk
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tater

tater

Posted
Posted (edited)

The 10m fairing I like the look of less than flush.

I'm still in the camp that says Orion should move to NG as soon as NG is a thing, and they should exclusively use SLS for cargo (which means they could evolve whatever they like with no concern for crew rating it).

(yes, this means distributed EOR for missions).

Edited by tater
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Barzon

Barzon

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said:

but at the same time that's like saying that a tesla model X looks better than a Fiat 124 Spider.

 

It's more like saying a cruise ship looks better than a cargo ship. I personally prefer the look of cargo ships :wink:.

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Barzon

Barzon

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, tater said:

I'm still in the camp that says Orion should move to NG as soon as NG is a thing

NG expendable? Because I think it only has like 13t to TLI reused.

5 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said:

too bad we probably won't ever see it. ;.;

From what I've heard, the Dynetics HLS is very likely to launch on SLS if they get chosen.

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Dirkidirk

Dirkidirk

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Space Nerd said:

We can always be optimistic!

maybe future martian god, Elongated Muskrat, would one day recreate a launch, just for fun.

6 minutes ago, Barzon said:

NG expendable? Because I think it only has like 13t to TLI reused.

From what I've heard, the Dynetics HLS is very likely to launch on SLS if they get chosen.

or that.

Edited by Dirkidirk
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RealKerbal3x

RealKerbal3x

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Barzon said:

From what I've heard, the Dynetics HLS is very likely to launch on SLS if they get chosen.

That all depends on whether EUS will be ready to go in 2024. I'm more inclined to think that Dynetics will launch on Vulcan.

I don't think the 2024 goal is really realistic either, but that's another story.

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tater

tater

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Barzon said:

NG expendable? Because I think it only has like 13t to TLI reused.

EOR reused. It has 45t to LEO. If needed/desirable, launch to a higher Earth orbit to rendezvous with SLS cargo there. Dock to spacecraft/cargo, EUS takes them the rest of the way. Course SLS still doesn't have enough capability for that to be terribly useful. Extra mass on NG would give Orion the comanifest, easily, but not sure what the SLS stack could do with it. I guess they could send SLS "naked" or nearly so. Wonder what the penalty for the LES is on total mass to LEO.

Expendable is interesting. Should bump the payload by 18% if it matches F9. 15.85t to TLI, or 54.9 to LEO.

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tater

tater

Posted
Posted (edited)

Looks like a naked EUS (EUS+ docking ring) launched as the only cargo could throw ~50t to TLI.

Orion is 26-27, right? That leaves 23-24 for comanifested, which NG could probably do. Not really enough, frankly. That said, you could send either part of a lander, or a light "orbital module" for crew comfort, plus a stage to do LOI in LLO. Orion can get home from LLO if something else does the LOI burn.

Lander sent ahead to LLO, obviously. Minus a lander, going to the Moon is pointless.

Edited by tater
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tater

tater

Posted
Posted

The bump it throw for the naked EUS is because the ICPS or EUS spend props to circularize the initial SLS orbit (or at least to raise perigee to a stable parking orbit, since the initial core stage orbit intentionally disposes the core).

Minus the 27-40t of cargo, more residuals remain.

The trouble of course is cost. Launching a naked FH would be easy to sell because it's cheap, even fully expended. Launching nothing for X billion dollars would probably be a hard sell (even if it makes sense from a mission standpoint in a particular case).

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RCgothic

RCgothic

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm really not a fan of the orange insulation.

 

SpaceX is in a prime position for an EOR mission.

Falcon 9 could probably stick Europa Clipper AND a Star48B PAM in LEO without even breaking a sweat. RTLS from SLC40 no problem.

One quick docking to a F9US launched by Falcon Heavy from LC-39A later, and you've got 6700m/s including the kick stage. If Falcon Heavy has to scrub, no biggy. EC and STAR don't have a time limit. 

Together they're good for a C3 of 88.5, which is SLS Block1B beating. 

 

If you ASDS the falcon 9 with a new enlarged STAR(180?) massing 10t (16t total) then the combined FUS + STAR180 hits a C3 of 106.

SLS Block2 can only manage 6t to 94 C3.

(And it keeps Thiokol in business! Everybody's happy!)

 

Edit: Some maths suggests it would be a STAR 74 to 80 or so, depending on oblateness. Easily within Falcon 9's 181" fairing envelope.

Edited by RCgothic
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RCgothic

RCgothic

Posted
Posted

Did some maths on 8 EOR mission modes:

 

1. Europa Clipper on Falcon Heavy (expendable). C3 = 73.5.

The baseline for comparison. Doesn't quite match SLS Block 1, and isn't good enough for a direct trajectory to Europa.

 

2. Europa Clipper plus STAR48 on Falcon Heavy (expendable). C3 = 78.6.

The addition of a third stage is a big improvement, but it's still not good enough for a direct trajectory to Europa. Beats SLS Block 1, which isn't good enough either. Likely actual mission mode.

 

3. Europa Clipper on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (2xASDS) in LEO. C3 - 72.9.

Worse than the baseline. The loss of 6t of FHUS propellant by reserving booster margin for side core recover isn't compensated by 6t additional F9 payload.

 

4. Europa Clipper on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (expendable) in LEO. C3 - 82.2.

Whereas this is just about the minimum required for a direct trajectory. Not quite SLS Block1B, but it gets the mission done for a fraction of the price even expending 3 of 4 cores.

 

5. Europa Clipper plus STAR48 on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (2xASDS) in LEO. C3 - 81.2.

Not as good as 4, and probably just short of a direct trajectory. You could maybe get away with just 80 at the optimum launch window. The loss of 6t of FHUS propellant by reserving booster margin for side core recover isn't compensated by sending EC up on F9 or by the small kick stage.

 

6. Europa Clipper plus STAR48 on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (expendable) in LEO. C3 = 90.4.

Easily direct to Europa. Beats SLS Block 1B as well. Does lose 3 of 4 cores, but this is negligible compared to the comparative cost of SLS.

 

7. Europa Clipper plus SUPERSTAR on F9 ASDS, docked to FHUS (2xASDS) in LEO. C3 = 94.

Competitive with SLS Block 2 for performance and recovers 3 of 4 cores (JRTI2, OCISLY and ASoG required).

 

8. Europa Clipper plus SUPERSTAR on F9 ASDS, docked to FHUS (expendable) in LEO. C3 = 102.5.

Roflstomps SLS Block 2 for a fraction of the price. Can send ludicrously large probes to anywhere.

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