[New] Space Launch System / Orion Discussion Thread

[Barzon]

@tater @adsii1970 @darthgently Artemis II will have 4k livestream capability via the  Optical Communications System.

[tater]

6 minutes ago, Barzon said:

@tater @adsii1970 @darthgently Artemis II will have 4k livestream capability via the  Optical Communications System.

Yeah, I know someone working on that.

[darthgently]

59 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

I wonder if a few of the satellites could be reoriented to face the Moon to act as relays...

Just a thought on an overworked, over-stressed, and under-compensated brain (yes, mine!)

Not sure, but that would maybe break their downlink to the ground station.  No inter sat lasers yet that I've heard of. Yet. Maybe there are some secret squirrel test versions up there

Edited November 16, 2022 by darthgently

[tater]

 

[SunlitZelkova]

2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

This statement deserves the understatement of the year. The United States, as well as many of the other Western nations, lack visionary leaders such as JFK, who saw the need for space exploration beyond the politics and policies of the Cold War era. Right now, there's very little interest by any Western politician in space flight or space exploration other than to keep restraint on the commercial development of human spaceflight and to do enough to keep one step ahead of political rivals, such as Russia (the old Soviet rival) and China, a nation that has plans for an ambitious space program not fully recognized by the West nor does the West recognize its full potential. (I will not elaborate further since I do not want to run afoul of forum guidelines).

Not to go out on an OT tangent, but JFK didn’t really believe in space exploration beyond any other politician. Apollo was very much a one and done thing even before he was assassinated.

I have seen one speculation that the program may have even been cancelled sometime during his second term (prior to ‘68) had he lived. Doing it to honor his memory was a big reason why it was able to survive in Congress as long as it did, as well as why the goal of landing prior to ‘70 was achieved.

[adsii1970]

29 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Not to go out on an OT tangent, but JFK didn’t really believe in space exploration beyond any other politician. Apollo was very much a one and done thing even before he was assassinated.

Not really. As an American historian by trade, I can tell you he was very much into space exploration and even wanted to fully fund NASA even more than it was. His love of space and space exploration comes from a couple of things - he was an avid reader of what we now consider the "classic" authors of science fiction. To be quite honest, and from what we know about his interests in space exploration, if he were alive today, he would probably support the surge of private corporate development of space travel as a means to make it more practical and affordable.

JFK was fully behind Von Braun's vision of LEO stations being a permanent gateway to the Moon and beyond. Even some of the NASA historical archives support the view that had JFK been able to complete his first term, the Apollo program would not have abruptly ended (Apollo XX would have been the last mission, if the program ran to its conclusion). The Apollo missions were only a small part of what could have been. Had JFK lived, been elected for a second term, then it is quite possible the STS program would have been realized a full five years earlier than what it was. The sources you reference state that Congress lost interest because the American public lost interest. That may be true to a point; however, the continuance of Apollo and the successor, Skylab as done mainly in memory of JFK is not the "big reason." There were other much larger reasons the space program and those missions continued - but in an extremely abbreviated manner.

Alas, and such as what it was with JFK's assassination, the presidency was passed off to LBJ - a man who was very anti-NASA and did much to cut back its budget since NASA is an executive branch agency. But NASA and America's space exploration efforts had a lot more enemies than LBJ. It also had a young but powerful senator, Walter Mondale (who, later, as Vice President under President Carter, would try to gut NASA and delay/de-fund the STS program), who was able to do a lot in Congress to cut the budget and restrict what NASA could do with its remaining budget.

There's a lot more behind what I am saying but it involves politics and I cannot/will not go further.

[tater]

2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

- a man who was very anti-NASA and did much to cut back its budget since NASA is an executive branch agency.

Odd given his efforts as Senate Majority Leader during the Eisenhower Admin.

Any cuts after that he desired might have something to do with a conflict he ran that was doing poorly,  and a huge domestic program—both eating $$$.

Edited November 17, 2022 by tater

[adsii1970]

12 minutes ago, tater said:

Odd given his efforts as Senate Majority Leader during the Eisenhower Admin.

Not really. He felt a lot of hostility towards NASA's purpose. There's a lot of good scholarship in some of the early days of the NACA history that shows his support for NACA - but then it was under the Department of Defense. It seems when NACA was removed from the Department of Defense, no longer fell under the direct control of the new Department of the Air Force, he had a severe hatred dislike for a civilian-controlled NASA. There are a few who suggest Mondale wanted the Department of Defense to directly in administrative control of the new NASA.

The problem was is that Eisenhower did not want NASA to be a military branch. He was against the militarization of space.

[sevenperforce]

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I have seen one speculation that the program may have even been cancelled sometime during his second term (prior to ‘68) had he lived. Doing it to honor his memory was a big reason why it was able to survive in Congress as long as it did, as well as why the goal of landing prior to ‘70 was achieved.

Agreed. It was very much done as a "remember JFK" thing.

[Beccab]

2 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Agreed. It was very much done as a "remember JFK" thing.

I'd go even further and say that it wasn't really a thing of goodwill or actual appreciation from Congress, but much more because none of them wanted to be remembered as the man who killed JFK a second time. If it wasn't like that the program would have likely ended with the Apollo 1 disaster

Edited November 17, 2022 by Beccab

[intelliCom]

6 minutes ago, Beccab said:

I'd go even further and say that it wasn't really a thing of goodwill or actual appreciation from Congress, but much more because none of them wanted to be remembered as the man who killed JFK a second time. If it wasn't like that the program would have likely ended with the Apollo 1 disaster

Also pressure to keep up with Russia. Just a loose end to tie up really.
Once the USSR dissolved, and Russia screwed up on both N1 and Energia, the US didn't see much reason to proceed proper.

Something's telling me that this will change when China starts sending manned missions to the Moon.

[sevenperforce]

By my math, Artemis 1 will be halfway to the moon in 12 minutes.

[RCgothic]

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the mobile launcher. /S

 

[RCgothic]

 

 

[Beccab]

 

[Barzon]

Aged like fine, fine milk:

Quote

With the recent announcement the Space Launch System (SLS) has become challenged by her schedule, the NASA rocket may soon find herself in a battle with a commercial “alternative”. SpaceX’s super powerful Exploration Class rocket is targeting crewed missions to Mars up to 10 years ahead of SLS – although both vehicles continue to avoid being classed as competitors.

Battle of the Heavyweight Rockets - SLS could face Exploration Class rival - NASASpaceFlight.com 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Barzon
misread the quote lol. didn't see the "to Mars" bit.

[Beccab]

4 minutes ago, Barzon said:

Aged like fine, fine milk:

Battle of the Heavyweight Rockets - SLS could face Exploration Class rival - NASASpaceFlight.com 

I mean, did it? The article is about how MCT, then BFR, then ITS, then Starship could send stuff to Mars 10 years before SLS, and neither did it yet or are going to in the next couple years. Hell, SLS is completely booked until 2033 or so, and no plans are founded beyond then for now. If you're looking for rotten milk, this is more fitting

 

[intelliCom]

6 minutes ago, Barzon said:

Aged like fine, fine milk:

Battle of the Heavyweight Rockets - SLS could face Exploration Class rival - NASASpaceFlight.com 

Aged like milk how? I don't understand. Is it because SLS won't launch enough to catch up with Starship, or that SLS launched first, making it more reliable than Starship right now?

 

1 minute ago, Beccab said:

I mean, did it? The article is about how MCT, then BFR, then ITS, then Starship could send stuff to Mars 10 years before SLS, and neither did it yet or are going to in the next couple years. Hell, SLS is completely booked until 2033 or so, and no plans are founded beyond then for now. If you're looking for rotten milk, this is more fitting

 

"Falcon 9 Heavy may some day come about. It's on the drawing board right now. SLS is real"

Yeah now that is aging like milk. Starship is close to launching for the first time (then again, it's always close to launching, whether it's 2020 or 2022.)

[Barzon]

no ye my bad I misread the friggin quote. rip. feel a bit stupid now.

[Beccab]

Just now, Barzon said:

no ye my bad I misread the friggin quote. rip. feel a bit stupid now.

All good lmao, there has been plenty of bad takes from both sides of the SLS vs Starship debate so it wasn't impossible

[Beccab]

Rest in peace, OMOTENASHI and NEA scout

[kerbiloid]

Shot and thrown out.

Too low oxygen on board.

Soon they'll be drawing lots.

P.S.
Oops, already two,

[Minmus Taster]

54 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Rest in peace, OMOTENASHI and NEA scout

Did someone say they were actually gone? My sources say that there is still some life from at least OMOTENASHI. CAPSTONE recovered twice so there is still a chance that they could be saved (it's optimistic but we just watched SLS launch so anything is possible at this point).

[kerbiloid]

28 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said:

My sources say that there is still some life from at least OMOTENASHI.

Thrown out alive???

OMG...

[kerbiloid]

Is that large orange tank of SLS fueled with green or blue hydrogen?

How does it affect ISP?

How can it be recognized by the plume color?