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Helicopter blade issue


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R7000 Turboshaft Engine, I place 2 Helicopter Blades Type S on it (doesn't matter how, radial symmetry, mirror symmetry, one by one, on turboshaft's nodes, not on turboshaft nodes, clockwise variant, counter-clockwise variant etc.) and I get this:

vMgQzI8.png

Am I doing something wrong?

I mention that the screenshot is taken when they are not deployed and not rotated, if I deploy them or rotate them, they can both go positive or negative, but still have some difference between the forces. (one has more lift and other one less) I also tried it with control surfaces and wings and this does not occur.

The forces are equal when the authority limiter is set to 4 on one of them.

Edited by Aphobius
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That looks to me like the stuff KSP does when it tries to use the helicopter blades as control surfaces. (Which it does seriously weirdly.) Did you disable using the blades as control surfaces? (Switch off pitch, yaw, and roll control.) What is the value you use for the authority limiter when not setting it to "4"? (I.e. do you have it at 100 or at 0?)

 

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It does this no matter what I do. Pitch, yaw and roll either disabled or enabled, but me not touching the inputs, it does it. Blades not deployed or deployed and having the same limit, it does it.

I don't actually think I'm doing something wrong, it looks like a bug.

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Hmmm...

The blades seem far away from the rotor. Did you offset them from their original position?

[Edit:]

Yes, with offsetting this effect can be triggered. But I also get large drag vectors (the red ones).

You should not need to use offsetting with the new blades. They already contain quite a few "hacks" to create significant lift even with the low rotational velocities.

Edited by AHHans
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Yes, I did, so you can observe the issue better.

Can you confirm that this doesn't happen in your game?

 

EDIT: No, for me nothing has to be done for this effect to be "triggered", that's how the game is, no matter what you do. Please confirm that the issue doesn't happen to you, don't assume that it's something that I do, that triggers it.

Edited by Aphobius
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2 minutes ago, Aphobius said:

Can you confirm that this doesn't happen in your game?

Yes. If I don't shift, deploy, rotate, or offset the blades (except rotating them so that their forward edge faces into the wind), then I get very small (IMHO negligible) lift vectors.

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3 hours ago, Aphobius said:

I've added a video to the first post

Hmmmm, let's see...

[...]

That's strange...

[...]

Hmmmm....

[...]

O.K. It seems to depend on which rotor/engine you use. With the big turboshaft (R7000) and the small electrical (EM-16 or EM-16s) I get the same result that you have. With the other engines (EM-32, EM-64, and R121) I get the results that I'm used to: some, but very small lift vectors. Because I usually only use the EM-32 or EM-64 for my craft I haven't seen this before. (Using fossil fuels is dirty! Electricity is the power of the future. :cool:)

It is strange, but my guess is that this will not affect your craft much (if at all). When the blades are configured to generate significant lift (e.g. deployed and with the authority limiter to 6 or more) then the lift vectors are much stronger, so that the differences that you see don't have a strong effect. They will generate some instability. (Which may be exactly what SQUAD wants to do: generate some instability that the player needs to correct for.)

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Hopefully, they'll fix it, it's causing a lot of problems with swashplates. And there are more strange things happening with those blades, when my helicopter is going forward (very slowly compared to blades' speed), half of the forces are downwards, even though all blades have a high angle of attack.

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@Aphobius

Hi there, i know i can`t help on your issue much but i can assure you that after 1.7.3 all the blades, rotors and engines (LF and electric) work as intended.

(Clearly, a 100% clean KSP installation, you might want to verify your game cache maybe...)

Make sure to set amount of attach nodes on the engine axel first (2, 3, 4, 6, 8 x radial symmetry), and attach then desired blades/rotors whit radial symmetry enabled to the nodes, use ALT-key to snap correctly.

Then check rotation direction, on engine and blade, the coloured side of the blade is in direction of lift/up, or forward/ thrust.

I made successfully 4 engine planes with six blades per engine, counterrotating, feather (Deploy), even counterrrotating double prop engines (clipped), and a fun personal quad copter, a Chinook style and so on. Takes some time to get in the matter, don`t worry.

Set torque and rpm to Main Throttle in the action groups, set only pitch on helicopters, no yaw, no roll; and no pitch, yaw, roll on planeblades. Set deploy at AG1 with around +30 for helicopters, attach them flat with no inclination for example. A light motor does the job mostly, only heavy planes need full torque version. Put brake to AG2, down to 10. Have fuel or sufficient ECs :wink:

Spoiler

ZF6boiN.png

  

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@Mikki

Thank you for trying to help, but I've encountered this issue on two clean installs on two separate computers and AHHans also confirmed that it happens to him too.

Having a craft that is working (more or less) doesn't mean that the issue is not happening (check the helicopter from my signature), if you want to help, please try it with the motor and the blade that I've mentioned and use the forces debug.

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I don`t want to sound rude but i have studied your clip toroughly and see no issue. 0 inclination (undeployed) results in a very slight negative sum downforce or negative lift, any positive pitch on heliblades shows both blades with positive yellow lift vectors. Purple vector just indicates the sum of forces/ thrust direction.

My funny quadcopter goes nicely up to 36m/s surface speed flat out horizontally, 0 Pitch lets it sink slowly for pinpoint landing.

But i might be wrong, who knows.

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In my video you can clearly see that when the blades are not deployed, one has positive lift and the other one negative lift. It's not about the sum, blades must work correctly individually. This is causing some oscillations and affects any kind of mechanism (cyclic for example) that is supposed to control the blades.

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