Reinhart Mk.1

Could kerbals breathe on Laythe?

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I'm only really asking because there's other planets with atmospheres where the jet engines don't work... but on Laythe the jet engines (in air-breathing mode, to clarify, hence the post) DO work... idk from a perspective of the whole Kerbal existence I was curious.

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Posted (edited)

Yes, Kerbals can breathe on Laythe, as you can see in the game, by right clicking on a kerbal and selecting "Remove Helmet", while on Laythe. 

Laythe is the only other body Kerbals can breathe on.

Edited by RocketSimplicity

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2 hours ago, RocketSimplicity said:

Yes, Kerbals can breathe on Laythe, as you can see in the game, by right clicking on a kerbal and selecting "Remove Helmet", while on Laythe. 

Laythe is the only other body Kerbals can breathe on.

wow im dumb, i only ever visited it once in a quick save but never did that

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Yet the EVA reports indicate that the kerbals can't really breath Laythe's atmosphere.

According to EVA reports (unless it has changed), they find the air to be painful to breath. There's one EVA report where it said the kerbal immediately put its helmet back on because it was painful to breath or something like that.

So its not something like instant death, but it doesn't seem to be something that a kerbal could survive in the long term breathing.

Unless they changed it when they added the ability to remove helmets.

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46 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Yet the EVA reports indicate that the kerbals can't really breath Laythe's atmosphere.

This makes me curious, maybe they could put a time limit on how long you can be on Laythe without the helmet. Let the thing tick down, and poof, no more kerbal.

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Quick calculation says Laythe's sea-level atmospheric pressure is equivalent of being 800 meters high on Kerbin.

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41 minutes ago, Fraktal said:

Quick calculation says Laythe's sea-level atmospheric pressure is equivalent of being 800 meters high on Kerbin.

Can Kerbals breathe being 800 meters high on Kerbin?

In the end we cannot really answer the question, because the game does not simulate any of this - with the one exception that it defines Kerbin's and Laythe's atmosphere as containing oxygen and allows jets to work. But even the latter only uses the pressure of the atmosphere to calculate the available intake air for the engines, not the actual available oxygen.

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800 meters on Kerbin equals 4000 meters on Earth, which is within human tolerance without an oxygen mask.

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54 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

Can Kerbals breathe being 800 meters high on Kerbin?

Yes.

You can find their tolerance by putting one without a helmet in a command chair and launching upward. When he goes poof you know you went too far. Or successfully discovered the limit, depending on your point of view.

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36 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Yes.

You can find their tolerance by putting one without a helmet in a command chair and launching upward. When he goes poof you know you went too far. Or successfully discovered the limit, depending on your point of view.

actually that's a cool detail i never knew existed in game :o.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, nascarlaser1 said:

actually that's a cool detail i never knew existed in game :o.

Well it was just added, in whatever version they added the ability to remove helmets. Like, 1.7.0?

 

Edited by 5thHorseman
Meshed the curren versions of factorio (0.17) with KSP (1.7) and got 17.0 :/

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I performed an Experiment 

aYlvRlZ.png

VDAkuzG.png

Turns out they can overheat without a helmet on like this too. Actually, someone should try messing around with hyperedit, and seeing if they respond to changes done that way

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5 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Yes.

You can find their tolerance by putting one without a helmet in a command chair and launching upward. When he goes poof you know you went too far. Or successfully discovered the limit, depending on your point of view.

I really was gone for a while ... :)

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Just because there's oxygen doesn't mean it's sufficient for breathing; if we assume kerbals need 20% oxygen like humans then if Laythe was 15-12% it could be problematic. There's also the fact that laythe is smaller; meaning atmospheric pressure is lower overall. Meaning that the partial pressure of oxygen would be lower also; requiring higher percentages to get the same amount of oxygen in a given volume. This also isn't including the possibility of another gas in the atmosphere that's high enough to make it toxic (ammonia?CO?)

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I'm betting Kerbal's would need a "Laythe-lung" rebreather to comfortably move around there without a helmet.

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8 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Well it was just added, in whatever version they added the ability to remove helmets. Like, 17.0?

 

I think it came with the 1.5 suit revamp.

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11 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

You can find their tolerance by putting one without a helmet in a command chair and launching upward. When he goes poof you know you went too far. Or successfully discovered the limit, depending on your point of view.

I believe the limit is 10 km on Kerbin.

4 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Just because there's oxygen doesn't mean it's sufficient for breathing; if we assume kerbals need 20% oxygen like humans then if Laythe was 15-12% it could be problematic.

Sure, but the performance of air intakes for running jet engines is going to be affected, too.  If intakes & engines run the same on Laythe as on Kerbin for a given air pressure, then that would be an indication of similar O2 content.

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6 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Just because there's oxygen doesn't mean it's sufficient for breathing; if we assume kerbals need 20% oxygen like humans then if Laythe was 15-12% it could be problematic. There's also the fact that laythe is smaller; meaning atmospheric pressure is lower overall. Meaning that the partial pressure of oxygen would be lower also; requiring higher percentages to get the same amount of oxygen in a given volume. This also isn't including the possibility of another gas in the atmosphere that's high enough to make it toxic (ammonia?CO?)

I think this is the best answer. Even too much CO2 (air containing over 10% CO2) can cause convulsions and death in humans. Kerbals probably evolved to breathe a very specific mix of gases in the atmosphere.

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18 hours ago, KerbMav said:

Can Kerbals breathe being 800 meters high on Kerbin?

In the end we cannot really answer the question, because the game does not simulate any of this - with the one exception that it defines Kerbin's and Laythe's atmosphere as containing oxygen and allows jets to work. But even the latter only uses the pressure of the atmosphere to calculate the available intake air for the engines, not the actual available oxygen.

UHM. WHAT? Why can't we? Stick a Kerbal in a plane with an open air seat and send him up!

Of course the question can be answered. This isn't some esoteric ineffable mystery. Come on man. :mad:

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iirc, they changed the EVA reports in 1.5 to indicate that Kerbals can indeed breathe, but the air smells funny. I imagine it smells something like the Salton Sea, given the high salt concentrations necessary to keep the oceans liquid.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Just because there's oxygen doesn't mean it's sufficient for breathing; if we assume kerbals need 20% oxygen like humans then if Laythe was 15-12% it could be problematic. There's also the fact that laythe is smaller; meaning atmospheric pressure is lower overall. Meaning that the partial pressure of oxygen would be lower also; requiring higher percentages to get the same amount of oxygen in a given volume. This also isn't including the possibility of another gas in the atmosphere that's high enough to make it toxic (ammonia?CO?)

There was  speculation Laythe's oceans contained a lot of ammonia, back in the early days. So perhaps they can breathe, just not for long.

Edited by Tw1

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9 hours ago, Snark said:

 

Sure, but the performance of air intakes for running jet engines is going to be affected, too.  If intakes & engines run the same on Laythe as on Kerbin for a given air pressure, then that would be an indication of similar O2 content.

Which is why my current head canon leans more towards there being another noxious gas that makes up a significant portion of the atmosphere; perhaps created by photodissociation of compounds in the water or something similar.

That being said it actually would be possible to have different thrust curves for laythe wouldn't it? Just a PITA to implement.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Which is why my current head canon leans more towards there being another noxious gas that makes up a significant portion of the atmosphere; perhaps created by photodissociation of compounds in the water or something similar.

Yeah, reading down this thread, I was gonna say whether or not Laythe has sufficient pressure and oxygen content to breathe, it's probably something else in the atmosphere that makes it difficult and unhealthy. Laythe is in a very similar position to the real Io, poised to be highly active. Realistically most of Laythe's oxygen should probably be in the form of sulphur dioxide, toxic and essentially unuseable.

 

On 7/29/2019 at 3:31 PM, 5thHorseman said:

Well it was just added, in whatever version they added the ability to remove helmets. Like, 1.7.0?

Yes; I don't know what version but only within the last year was it confirmed that Kerbals can breathe on Laythe. For a long time this was speculation.

Edited by Rocket Witch

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