totm january 2020 Community Caveman Jool 5 mission

[dvader]

37 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

Nice. I think I can give it 2 tonnes of fuel in the drop tank and just have an Oscar-B and an ant to get home.

That would be neat and give us a lot of extra fuel to play with in case something goes wrong. Please include  a Spark as well for orbital insertion (or it will take for ever). If it complicates things we can put the Spark on the extra fuel and put KILO in the middle but I've already submitted a PR.

I lowered the extra fuel so LIMA+Extra fuel is now 3.064t which I hope makes MIKE even more well balanced. It is barely enough for orbital insertion (700dV) but we have a lot of extra fuel anyway. I also added two ants so we can leave KILO in high orbit as long as there's just a few dV left in the extra tanks. It adds some mission flexibility even though I don't think we need it.

 

[ManEatingApe]

49 minutes ago, dvader said:

I lowered the extra fuel so LIMA+Extra fuel is now 3.064t which I hope makes MIKE even more well balanced. It is barely enough for orbital insertion (700dV) but we have a lot of extra fuel anyway. I also added two ants so we can leave KILO in high orbit as long as there's just a few dV left in the extra tanks. It adds some mission flexibility even though I don't think we need it.

 

Thanks for the PR, I've rebased your changes onto master.

For anyone using Windows or macOS, Fork or Sourcetree are two decent free visual Git clients.

Linux users are only allowed use the CLI in a traditional 80x25 terminal window (just kidding...I don't actually use desktop Linux enough to recommend a good Linux client)

Edited September 7, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Thanks for the PR, I've rebased your changes onto master.

Hi @ManEatingApe, not that skilled at Git.  I forked the repo this morning, but I don't expect to fly until tomorrow.  So I looked to update my fork, but I don't see these changes.

 

2 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

For anyone using Windows or macOS, Fork or Sourcetree are two decent free visual Git clients.

Linux users are only allowed use the CLI in a traditional 80x25 terminal window (just kidding...I don't actually use desktop Linux enough to recommend a good Linux client)

I've normally downloaded and changed files locally, updated my fork on GitHub, and then done a pull request back.  What does everyone else think about those two clients?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jacke

[IncongruousGoat]

2 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Linux users are only allowed use the CLI in a traditional 80x25 terminal window (just kidding...I don't actually use desktop Linux enough to recommend a good Linux client)

I can't help here; I use the CLI. Regardless of what platform I'm on.

7 minutes ago, Jacke said:

I forked the repo this morning, but I don't expect to fly until tomorrow.  So I looked to update my fork, but I don't see these changes.

'git pull https://github.com/maneatingape/community-caveman-jool-5' should do the trick (or you can substitute the SSH URL if you've got SSH set up).

[ManEatingApe]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

So I looked to update my fork, but I don't see these changes.

I've normally downloaded and changed files locally, updated my fork on GitHub, and then done a pull request back.  What does everyone else think about those two clients?

That workflow is spot on. The visual clients are not necessary, but can make things more convenient.

The only extra step needed is to keep your fork in sync with the original repo ("upstream" in Git slang) so that you receive other folk's contributions after I merge them.

You can do as @IncongruousGoat suggests or also follow these steps:
https://help.github.com/en/articles/configuring-a-remote-for-a-fork (once off)
https://help.github.com/en/articles/syncing-a-fork (to get latest updates)

As of this post, your fork should be at "v8" or later:

Before you fly your mission I would sanity check by:

• Loading "latest.sfs"
• Go to the tracking station and view MIKE in orbit
• It should have 1 x DELTA and 1 x FOXTROT docked to it

Edited September 8, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, ManEatingApe said:

That workflow is spot on. The visual clients are not necessary, but can make things more convenient.

The only extra step needed is to keep your fork in sync with the original repo ("upstream" in Git slang) so that you receive other folk's contributions after I merge them.

You can do as @IncongruousGoat suggests or also follow these steps:
https://help.github.com/en/articles/configuring-a-remote-for-a-fork (once off)
https://help.github.com/en/articles/syncing-a-fork (to get latest updates)

As of this post, your fork should be at "v8" or later:

Those GitHub help files talk about a Git shell.  I'm not on Linux even though I know it well (long story) so they don't make sense to me.

How do I force the repo on GitHub to sync with yours, @ManEatingApe ?  As well, yours isn't showing any changes from today.

 

1 hour ago, ManEatingApe said:

Before you fly your mission I would sanity check by:

• Loading "latest.sfs"
• Go to the tracking station and view MIKE in orbit
• It should have 1 x DELTA and 1 x FOXTROT docked to it

Curious, why "latest.sfs" instead of "persistent.sfs" ?  I can see from the file sizes that "latest.sfs" is much larger, although date-time contents modified are all the same.

[IncongruousGoat]

23 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Those GitHub help files talk about a Git shell.  I'm not on Linux even though I know it well (long story) so they don't make sense to me.

Git's been ported to every major OS; getting the CLI tool to run on whatever it is you're using should be easy.

[Pds314]

Alright, I have a version of KILO with 1.5 tonnes of fuel in drop stage. 2 tonnes turned out to have such thin margins it made everything very difficult to fly with the drag involved. I even tried using a Foxtrot-derived launcher and... nope. It ends up with incredibly tight margins.

[Pds314]

And made a new PR (actually an entire new repository because of the issues with the last one).

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

Git's been ported to every major OS; getting the CLI tool to run on whatever it is you're using should be easy.

I have no intention of running Git locally at this time.  Right now I just want to remotely manipulate my Git repository at GitLab.  I want to update it both from upstream and my changes and submit pull requests to pass back my changes to upstream.

[ManEatingApe]

9 hours ago, Jacke said:

Those GitHub help files talk about a Git shell.  I'm not on Linux even though I know it well (long story) so they don't make sense to me.

5 hours ago, Jacke said:

I have no intention of running Git locally at this time.  Right now I just want to remotely manipulate my Git repository at GitLab.  I want to update it both from upstream and my changes and submit pull requests to pass back my changes to upstream.

The shell is also called the terminal or command line prompt (e.g. c:\> ) depending on your OS. GitHub, while a nice web based UI, is not designed to replace a git client, so you'll need either a command line client or a GUI client.

Git is powerful and flexible but is also the KSP of source control - steep learning curve and plenty of foot guns
I still regularly do the Git equivalent of forgetting a parachute or staging by accident.

As a plan B, you can upload the "latest.sfs" and "latest.loadmeta" files to Dropbox (or similar) and I'll commit them on your behalf.

9 hours ago, Jacke said:

Curious, why "latest.sfs" instead of "persistent.sfs" ?  I can see from the file sizes that "latest.sfs" is much larger, although date-time contents modified are all the same.

KSP saves "persistent.sfs" outside of the player's control, so it's tricky to guarantee that it's in exactly the state you want. A named save file gives precise control, as it's only updated intentionally.

7 hours ago, Pds314 said:

And made a new PR (actually an entire new repository because of the issues with the last one).

Great! I'm out and about at the moment, will merge this later today.
@Jacke As this PR only contains craft files you are not blocked in any way,  go ahead and fly that mission!

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[Rakaydos]

Damn, I completely missed the setup for this challange.

Several releases back I made a caveman kerbin orbit-> tylo lander (internal kerbal/no ladder)->kerbin return that should have been able to make it, DV wise, but I did not have the skill to fly it.

On 9/1/2018 at 2:31 PM, Rakaydos said:

Thanks to the Alert tab, the haystack was only 5 pages of  minor docking failures burying the major docking failure (and one or two other stranger issues I hadnt noticed yet). Thank you.

Next up is Stage planning and DV Sanity Check.

I've already spotted one problem that needs a mid-flight redock and a relaunch (it's only the "comedy of errors" center engine, though) to give the redocking part access to a probe core.

[ManEatingApe]

55 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Damn, I completely missed the setup for this challange.

Several releases back I made a caveman kerbin orbit-> tylo lander (internal kerbal/no ladder)->kerbin return that should have been able to make it, DV wise, but I did not have the skill to fly it.

I recall watching the orbital assembly for that craft with much anticipation!

The craft designs are mostly done, but you're more than welcome to take on a mission segment or two

Currently, we're assembling the mothership "MIKE" in LKO, adding fuel sections and landers one at a time.
Would you like to fly a mission?

Edited September 8, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[Rakaydos]

It's been ages since I booted up the game, but I might. LKO Rendevus is something I got plenty of practice in back then, lets hope it's like a bicycle.

 

[dvader]

23 hours ago, Jacke said:

I have no intention of running Git locally at this time.  Right now I just want to remotely manipulate my Git repository at GitLab.  I want to update it both from upstream and my changes and submit pull requests to pass back my changes to upstream.

I figured out how to do it on GitHub but I'm not sure on GitLab. You basically use the compare tool. It was trickier than expected since the "base repo" box disappears once you try to switch base and head so you have to press the "compare across forks" link above. I'm not sure how you get the local changes pushed to the fork without a local client though. I normally do command line only and I'm a bit sceptical about these modern "web" things.

Detailed example here:

https://github.com/KirstieJane/STEMMRoleModels/wiki/Syncing-your-fork-to-the-original-repository-via-the-browser

 

[Jacke]

I think I'm just going to have to give up.

The specs of the FOXTROT design are just too tight for me.  As well, the pitch and other authorities are just too low for my skills.

Took me a while to master flying the rocket without making a mistake.  Then on my seventh attempt, I got the 2nd stage to an 54x81km orbit when the tanks were exhausted.

I could have staged and circularized with some of the maneuvering fuel and then proceeded to near rendezvous, but the prospects of going through near rendezvous, several steps of zeroing target relative velocity, then thrusting towards the target until close enough for docking--with each painfully attitude change with the low authority--I'm sure I would have exhausted either the maneuvering fuel or the battery charge without success.  And another flight attempt wasn't appealing either.

Mutex is back to you, @ManEatingApe.  No changes from me.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Jacke

[ManEatingApe]

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

The specs of the FOXTROT design are just too tight for me.

No worries, the margins are quite slim I should be the one to take the next FOXTROT mission!

Would you like to fly a TANGO instead?

Edited September 11, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[Jacke]

One things you should do is rename the current orbiting vessel--currently FOXTROT--back to MIKE (and perhaps change the type from Probe to Ship).  That name change will happen again upon every docking and so will need to be done several times.

 

16 minutes ago, ManEatingApe said:

The margins are quite slim I should be the one to take the next FOXTROT mission!

The tight delta-V and the minimal angular authority worked together to make things tough.  I was trying to get the right alignment to circularize and had a hard time getting and keeping the right orientation.  Once past that, well, it's just going to be a long close rendezvous, partly because needing to align with the relative velocity as it is at the closest approach to zero it.  Get the first closest approach at around a kilometer with a 79x79km orbit would help, but I'm used to having more authority with RCS or a lot more  Reaction Wheels.

 

Quote

Would you like to fly a TANGO instead?

Thanks.  I'll give it a try.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Jacke

[ManEatingApe]

17 minutes ago, Jacke said:

One things you should do is rename the current orbiting vessel--currently FOXTROT--back to MIKE (and perhaps change the type from Probe to Ship).  That name change will happen again upon every docking and so will need to be done several times.

Good suggestion!

One additional tweak we could do is to reduce the vessel naming priority of the landers to below that of the mothership. This should ensure that MIKE remains MIKE.

The default value is 10, so going to 9 or below should work. VAB -> Right click probe core -> "Configure Vessel Naming" -> "Priority" slider

17 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Thanks.  I'll give it a try.

Great!

Edited September 11, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[Jacke]

17 minutes ago, ManEatingApe said:

One additional tweak we could do is to reduce the vessel naming priority of the landers to below that of the mothership. This should ensure that MIKE remains MIKE.

The default value is 10, so going to 9 or below should work. VAB -> Right click probe core -> "Configure Vessel Naming" -> "Priority" slider

Alternately, when renaming "FOXTROT" back to MIKE and making it a ship, perhaps change it to level 11 so that all the upcoming craft docked to it don't override that.

[ManEatingApe]

12 minutes ago, Jacke said:

...perhaps change it to level 11 so that all the upcoming craft docked to it don't override that.

Anytime there's an opportunity to take things to 11 we should take it...

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[IncongruousGoat]

@ManEatingApe I'll volunteer to take the third FOXTROT flight if nobody else steps up to do it.

[Muetdhiver]

6 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

@ManEatingApe I'll volunteer to take the third FOXTROT flight if nobody else steps up to do it.

That would be great !

I am refactoring the NavTool and ironing out some little errors as well as finding a way to do clean correction burns. Turns out that making a 1 m/s error on the correction burn is not insignificant

Though I feel confident enough to move ahead with a live test on my NCD save. I have been waiting a lonnnng time to be able to do something like this

 

Spoiler

computing a Duna transfer, and correction burn after about ~100 days in flight.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Muetdhiver

[ManEatingApe]

2nd FOXTROT is docked to MIKE.

I also had some fun and manually de-orbited the 2 x FOXTROT tugs, 1 x FOXTROT upper stage and DELTA upper stage.

Spoiler

De-orbiting 1st FOXTROT tug. Once the fuel payload is detached there's lots of dV left over.

De-orbiting DELTA upper stage. This was already sub-orbital, so only time-warp was needed.

De-orbiting FOXTROT upper stage. This was also sub-orbital, so only time-warp was needed.

Updated latest.sfs save file is merged and tagged as "v9". Please pull the latest version.

@IncongruousGoat The mutex is yours!
Also a little cheekily, I've signed you up for 1 x FOXTROT and 1 x TANGO. Please let me know if that's OK.

@Jacke I put you next in the queue to fly 1 x TANGO mission. Please let me know if that suits.

Anyone else like to take a mission docking 1 x TANGO with MIKE?

Edited September 13, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[IncongruousGoat]

9 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Also a little cheekily, I've signed you up for 1 x FOXTROT and 1 x TANGO. Please let me know if that's OK.

Don't worry, it's OK. I designed it, after all - I should hope I'd be willing to fly it.