Mike Huges is at it again; RIP 22 Feb 2020

[Shpaget]

Apparently, today Mike Huges is once again going to strap himself to his selfmade steam rocket and push the big red button.

https://www.space.com/flat-earther-mad-mike-hughes-august-2019-launch.html

Last time he did it he broke his spine.

 

Update:

Mike died on 22 Feb 2020 in a crash, after parachute malfunction.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Shpaget

[RealKerbal3x]

[Scotius]

Some people build tiny houses out of matches. Some people build rafts from empty plastic bottles. And some people sit on top of boilers full of overheated steam and launch themselves in the air. A hundred years ago this guy would be a pioneer and trailblazer. Today? He's resourceful-but-crazy weirdo conspiracy theorist.

[mikegarrison]

He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's a professional daredevil who is pretending to be a conspiracy theorist for sponsorship. Have you ever heard about "adult film" actors who are "gay for pay"? Well, he's "flat earth for pay". Or, he was. This time his funding is coming from a "casual hookup app" called "hud". The new tagline seems to be "dating is not rocket science" (judging by what is painted on the side of his rocket).

Edited August 11, 2019 by mikegarrison

[Cheif Operations Director]

Good grief, this guy must be insane or something. 

[Ultimate Steve]

From the article:

Quote

To launch to the Karman line, Hughes and fellow rocketeer Waldo Stakes are developing a "rock-oon," which is part rocket, part balloon. Essentially, the balloon would attach to the rocket and carry Hughes up part of the way, and then he would fire the hydrogen-peroxide-powered rocket to travel the rest of the distance. 

Stakes helps to design these rockets alongside Hughes, who later builds them. They hope to have their "rock-oon" completed and ready to launch 18 months to two years after they finish fundraising $2.8 million for the build, Stakes told Space.com. As of now, the success and development of the "rock-oon" is yet to be seen. 

 

Hmm, so they do have a dev plan to get to space.

I mean, I do think that this guy is pretending to be a crackpot for the money.

That's actually not a bad plan as far as homebuilt rockets go. Hydrogen Peroxide, from a balloon.

I kinda want this to happen now, but 2.8 million dollars is a lot of money, even from crackpots and hookup sites, his current sponsors.

 

Truth be told, if it got me to space, I'd probably sell advertising space on the rocket to literally anyone who would give me the money.

[lajoswinkler]

On 8/11/2019 at 4:42 PM, mikegarrison said:

He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's a professional daredevil who is pretending to be a conspiracy theorist for sponsorship. Have you ever heard about "adult film" actors who are "gay for pay"? Well, he's "flat earth for pay". Or, he was. This time his funding is coming from a "casual hookup app" called "hud". The new tagline seems to be "dating is not rocket science" (judging by what is painted on the side of his rocket).

What is next you're gonna tell us? Santa is real, and Tooth fairy leaves money in exchange for loose teeth? 

[cubinator]

Peroxide is super dangerous, requires special care to keep from spontaneously decomposing, and is very difficult to obtain as an amateur group even if you can spare the cash.

They will have trouble unless they have a really solid safety plan.

[Shpaget]

How viable is home brewing propellant grade peroxide, anyway? I mean, I have a bottle of 30% sitting on my shelf, but it's far from 90-ish % needed.

It is possible to distill low concentration (3%) up to 20%-30% on a kitchen stove, but It would be crazy to go beyond that. And you'd need a vacuum still. Even if you succeeded, you just end up with liquid bomb that is just waiting to go off.

[mikegarrison]

36 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

How viable is home brewing propellant grade peroxide, anyway? I mean, I have a bottle of 30% sitting on my shelf, but it's far from 90-ish % needed.

It is possible to distill low concentration (3%) up to 20%-30% on a kitchen stove, but It would be crazy to go beyond that. And you'd need a vacuum still. Even if you succeeded, you just end up with liquid bomb that is just waiting to go off.

Peroxide is dangerous stuff, but I assume that if this really happened it would not be "home-brew". There are companies that sell chemicals.

[Shpaget]

But it's a highly regulated substance, at least over here. Do you think somebody like our boy Mike would be able to get the approval from the relevant agencies? Quite frankly I'm surprised that he's not in trouble for messing with that much steam.

When I wanted to buy 10% peroxide in my local pharmacy, the lady was acting like I was some sort of a terrorist. She wouldn't sell me anything above 3%.

I had to go through some gray channels to get 30%.

[mikegarrison]

Yeah, I bet he can get the stuff if he's willing to go through all the paperwork. It's probably easier to buy the larger the quantities you want.

As for steam; no law against heating water.

[Ultimate Steve]

Peroxide is definitely one of the least dangerous monopropellants though. The only other thing an amateur might be able to do is a bipropellant pressure fed engine or some sort of hybrid solution.

Edit: Maybe solids as well

Edited August 12, 2019 by Ultimate Steve

[GDJ]

On 8/11/2019 at 11:44 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

Good grief, this guy must be insane or something. 

I have standing bet with a few others on how hard he's going to pancake on the desert floor.

42 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

But it's a highly regulated substance, at least over here. Do you think somebody like our boy Mike would be able to get the approval from the relevant agencies? Quite frankly I'm surprised that he's not in trouble for messing with that much steam.

When I wanted to buy 10% peroxide in my local pharmacy, the lady was acting like I was some sort of a terrorist. She wouldn't sell me anything above 3%.

I had to go through some gray channels to get 30%.

I worked on trailers that had 80% still in the tanks (pump replacement. All the gate valves were locked closed and the pipes were drained and steamed out. Field repair.)
At that level everything lights on fire when the peroxide touches it or people just go liquid.

[Kerbart]

On 8/11/2019 at 10:42 AM, mikegarrison said:

He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's a professional daredevil who is pretending to be a conspiracy theorist for sponsorship. Have you ever heard about "adult film" actors who are "gay for pay"? Well, he's "flat earth for pay". Or, he was. This time his funding is coming from a "casual hookup app" called "hud". The new tagline seems to be "dating is not rocket science" (judging by what is painted on the side of his rocket).

I’m not 100% sure about his motivations. He might just be looking for attention. Regardless, I agree that “flat earth” is the means to an end, not his motivation or belief.

[Cheif Operations Director]

6 hours ago, GDJ said:

I worked on trailers that had 80% still in the tanks (pump replacement. All the gate valves were locked closed and the pipes were drained and steamed out. Field repair.)
At that level everything lights on fire when the peroxide touches it or people just go liquid.

Merica!

 

6 hours ago, GDJ said:

I have standing bet with a few others on how hard he's going to pancake on the desert floor.

Good, keep increasing your bet and eventually you will be a millionaire. Most likely. Although that is kind of morbid

6 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Peroxide is definitely one of the least dangerous monopropellants though. The only other thing an amateur might be able to do is a bipropellant pressure fed engine or some sort of hybrid solution.

Edit: Maybe solids as well

I mean, you COULD perhaps build a very basic and horribly in-efficient turbo pump, but I doubt that. 

7 hours ago, Shpaget said:

But it's a highly regulated substance, at least over here. Do you think somebody like our boy Mike would be able to get the approval from the relevant agencies? Quite frankly I'm surprised that he's not in trouble for messing with that much steam.

When I wanted to buy 10% peroxide in my local pharmacy, the lady was acting like I was some sort of a terrorist. She wouldn't sell me anything above 3%.

I had to go through some gray channels to get 30%.

Where is over here?

[Ultimate Steve]

2 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I mean, you COULD perhaps build a very basic and horribly in-efficient turbo pump, but I doubt that. 

Not an expert, but it is my understanding that turbopumps are very, very difficult and require many high temperature, high precision parts. Even Copenhagen Suborbitals is going pressure fed, at least on Nexo, and probably Spica as well.

It would probably be a bit less complex to have a third propellant like HTP driving the pumps to do away with the need for some of the plumbing. This is what the V-2 and many other early rockets did.

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Not an expert, but it is my understanding that turbopumps are very, very difficult and require many high temperature, high precision parts. Even Copenhagen Suborbitals is going pressure fed, at least on Nexo, and probably Spica as well.

It would probably be a bit less complex to have a third propellant like HTP driving the pumps to do away with the need for some of the plumbing. This is what the V-2 and many other early rockets did.

 

That is what I mean by in-efficent

[Shpaget]

40 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Where is over here?

Croatia.

[Orc]

Hi all,

90%-ish peroxide was a discussed oxidizer in the mid-90s. Some of us got particularly excited about the Black Horse / Black Colt / Pathfinder, which alas came to nothing.

See: http://astronautix.com/craft/blahorse.htm

http://www.im.lcs.mit.edu/bh/analog.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Horse_(rocket)

There was also a proposal (at around the same time, I think) for kerosene+peroxide SRB-replacements for the Shuttle (which would have fold out wings and would fly back to a ultra long runway at the Cape). I think this is the original proposal:  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228581282_High_density_liquid_rocket_boosters_for_the_space_shuttle

 

The advantages of peroxide is that it is liquid in pretty much the same temperature / pressure range as the denser carbon-based fuels (no cryogenic cooling required). It is also hypergolic with carbon-based fuels so it auto combusts as soon as the fuel and peroxide touch in the combustion chamber. And siphoning off a bit of the peroxide through a silver mess generates hot steam and some O2 that can drive your turbo-pumps.

 

That said peroxide is horribly dangerous stuff. The ultra-high purity stuff (like over 97%) is sensitive to shock, and might just decide to decompose from any vibration or contaminant. Filling up an SRB sized monster with this stuff would be... interesting. Despite this a number of respectable people in the American space community still thought high purity peroxide might be easier to handle than LOX. 

 

In 93 I briefly worked in a dye-house where 50% peroxide was used for bleaching. Even diluted down it was still horribly dangerous stuff, able to erase your finger (and palm) prints in a second, and capable of setting the cotton dust on the floor alight if spilled. Despite the otherwise, relatively haphazard approach to safety in the plant the peroxide was treated with respect, and the people who handled it did so by the book. 

 

Anyway, this is making me feel old.

 

Regards

Orc

[GDJ]

7 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Merica!

Canada actually.

<---------

He's had a setback. I guess he'll live for another day.

https://www.space.com/craigslist-water-heater-mad-rocket-launch.html

[magnemoe]

14 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Not an expert, but it is my understanding that turbopumps are very, very difficult and require many high temperature, high precision parts. Even Copenhagen Suborbitals is going pressure fed, at least on Nexo, and probably Spica as well.

It would probably be a bit less complex to have a third propellant like HTP driving the pumps to do away with the need for some of the plumbing. This is what the V-2 and many other early rockets did.

 

Soyuz still uses HTP  for pump as I understand, yes its legacy and man rated. 
And it make the turbo pump into an steam turbine who is magnitudes easier. 
Last video I saw about Copenhagen suborbital they would copy this. 

But yes the pumps is an issue unless you go full flow who again increases difficulty by an magnitude. 
Its an reason why electron rockets work while electrical planes does not outside of niche uses. 

[Ultimate Steve]

3 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Soyuz still uses HTP  for pump as I understand, yes its legacy and man rated. 
And it make the turbo pump into an steam turbine who is magnitudes easier. 
Last video I saw about Copenhagen suborbital they would copy this. 

But yes the pumps is an issue unless you go full flow who again increases difficulty by an magnitude. 
Its an reason why electron rockets work while electrical planes does not outside of niche uses. 

Speaking of, an electric cycle might work for a rocket of this size. It is larger than electron, but only has to manage suborbital from a balloon.

Edit: assuming they use a single engine, it would be bigger than the Rutherford likely.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Ultimate Steve

[Dartguy]

And, he earned his Darwin Award..

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/22/us/science-channel-mike-hughes-dead/index.html

[K^2]

I don't approve of his publicity strategy for getting funding, but that aside, I'm kind of impressed, and wished him all the best in his endeavors, because there is nothing more Kerbal than strapping yourself to a water heater with safety valve welded shut just to see how high you can make it go.

Edit: Just wish he got someone with better engineering to help him with his stuff. Just read that last link.

Edit2: There's a video now, and I cannot think of a more Kerbal way to go. His parachute fired together with his engine.

Edited February 23, 2020 by K^2