Scoopapa

Robotics parts shifting when loading while on the ground

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There seems to be an issue with robotics parts moving when a craft is loaded while on the ground. The effect seems to be greater the greater the gravity of the planet, but it only happens if the vehicle is loaded from a save while on the ground. Here is a picture of a robotics-mounted engine upon first spawning:

Desktop-Screenshot-2019-08-17-18-59-56-2

Note that it is centered on the adapter piece it's attached to. Here is the same part after one quicksave and quickload: 

Desktop-Screenshot-2019-08-17-19-01-05-1

and after a second quicksave and quickload:

Desktop-Screenshot-2019-08-17-19-01-31-9

It seems to always shift down, although I've noticed a small amount of backwards shifting in other cases. The stronger the gravity, the more it seems to move. 

I have also noticed an issue with using arms made of robotics parts for refueling while on the ground. The arm gets completely mangled typically. This effect is documented in this video. At around 5:40, 8:00, and 9:30. You can also see a bit of a control situation at 3:00 where it lands with a probe attached to the refueling arm without it getting bent at all. 

Somewhat ironic that these parts are breaking while on the ground :cool:

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Any solutions to this? I'm experiencing something similar when time-warping. I.e. hinges used as part of landing gear slowly offset the more I timewarp, leading to instability and general unusability as landing gear. The only solution seems to be time-warping in the tracking station, which is a pain in the butt (when, for example, trying to track ISRU production)

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9 hours ago, GP_LeChuck said:

Any solutions to this?

Not a full solution. You can mitigate this by locking the robotic parts and having autostruts that bind parts on both sides together, but it doesn't go completely away. Sometimes it is also possible to "reset" the parts by unlocking and locking while there is no load on the parts. (E.g. when flying or in orbit.)

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10 hours ago, AHHans said:

Not a full solution. You can mitigate this by locking the robotic parts and having autostruts that bind parts on both sides together, but it doesn't go completely away. Sometimes it is also possible to "reset" the parts by unlocking and locking while there is no load on the parts. (E.g. when flying or in orbit.)

Thanks for the advice, I'll give that a shot. Are there any other exacerbating factors that I should look to avoid in order to mitigate the effects? @Scoopapa mentioned gravity in the OP, although I have to say my latest experience with it is on Phobos in RSS, which is about as low of gravity as you can get. I'm a little bummed at this bug, and I might just swear off robotic parts entirely for anything that's going to touch the surface.

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12 hours ago, GP_LeChuck said:

Are there any other exacerbating factors that I should look to avoid in order to mitigate the effects?

Well, I also think about how stuff would work in real life. So e.g. when designing folding wings I set it up so that when the wings are unfolded the hinges are at their maximum and get pushed into the "end stop" by the forces during flight.

Also: don't use physics warp with spinning rotors (e.g. propellers).

But in general: "move when no load is there, be locked when load is there" worked fairly well for me.

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Posted (edited)

Ive seen this a lot too, so much so that my stupid launch ladder vehicle (so that kerbals can deliver science data to a rocket before launch to an orbital lab) with a hinge on top of a 30m high pile of structural parts now has the hinged part sitting about 5m away from where it is meant to be. It looks ridiculous and is completely useless now.

https://imgur.com/a/KQzX0oY

 

I'm pretty sure it's not specifically gravity, its the physics loading that causes the parts to jump around slightly, which over time causes big problems. I used to use the Infernal Robotics addon heavily, and since Squad has clearly nicked the code from that, it inherits the same problem.

The heavier the stress between the parts, the more they jump each time, so while autostrutting helps a little bit, the problem will never really go away.

BTW, I find Rigid Attachment works a bit better - I built a new version of that ridiculous contraption above with that on between the hinge parts, and even after several 100 launches, its only moved about 1m.

 

Edited by surge

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