sh1pman

Kerbal Space Program 2: Master Post

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On 9/10/2019 at 3:36 AM, MechBFP said:

You’re right, it’s too low, but they can’t set it too high otherwise they will start losing sales to the uninformed.

Right!? I am just so tired of people complaining about a game not being worth "AAA Prices" or whatever they call it, just because it's an indie game, or it isn't long, or whatever other reason they come up with. As far as I'm concerned, play-time and style have nothing to do with how much I'm willing to pay for a game. What matters is enjoyment factor. I recently bought Star Wars Battlefront 2, and only did so because it was heavily marked down to like $6. I liked it ok, but I would not pay more than that for it, because I didn't enjoy it enough to justify more than that. KSP I enjoy immensely, and I would gladly pay $60 for that. And that's in US$. It will almost certainly be at least $80 for me in Australia, and I'll still be glad to pay that, because I know I'll like it that much.

 

And before people jump in about budget and affordability, I have a very tight budget for games. I'm living on a PhD scholarship and saving for a house. I do NOT have a lot of money to throw around, and I would STILL be happy to pay $60+ for KSP2. I'm already saving for it.

Edited by PunkRockZoologist

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On 9/9/2019 at 7:35 PM, Galileo said:

That's relative. I would easily pay triple that if they asked. I paid $40 for KSP 1 and have easily dumped 4,000+ hours into it. You do the math and tell me I didn't get my money's worth...

I'd say $60 is a steal. I understand that not everybody has $60 laying around to buy KSP 2, but that doesn't make it "not right", or not worth the money. If you want to pay less, just wait for a sale. 

Man, If only I could get that same return on investment for virtually anything else I have purchased in my life!

I really don't understand everybody who is complaining about the price. 60 bucks is nothing!! I'm from Brazil and i'll proudly pay 4 times that, because 1 american dolar worth 4 brazilians reais. For comparison, 240 reais ($60) is a quarter of the minimum wage here, so, it's a little expensive for our standarts. Even with all this, i'll buy as soon as possible.

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[snip]
I do not recognise (with an 's') that USD $60 is the 'de facto' standard price for games.  My posts detailed exactly why that is.

[snip]

Edited by Vanamonde
Personal comments removed.

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Some rather harsh personal remarks have been removed from this thread. Please don't attack each other over differing opinions about games. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 10:14 AM, Pecan said:

My original point was that USD $60 AAA pricing is not worth it to me because there are plenty of better games, in fact every game I've ever bought, that are half that price or less.  In the case of KSP 2 I don't believe it will be sufficiently different/improved from 1 to warrant the price (to me) so I will continue with 1 for the time being.  My "would you really" question to you was just amazement that anyone would think a sequel, even to awesome KSP, would be worth as much as any 3 top-priced alternatives, or 6 times as much as KSP 1/any other USD $30 game.  If you do, then I hope you enjoy it.

As surprised as you are, I'm surprised that you can find 3 games that you'd rather play than KSP2.

I've dropped $60 on 2 games in the past ... oh let's say 5 years. I enjoyed both of them immensely but none as much as I have KSP in that same time frame. I paid $20 for KSP.

I've dropped...  oh jeez I have no idea. A couple hundred on several dozen other games in that time. One of them was Rimworld. I played that for multiple hundreds of hours. Another was Factorio. I'm pretty sure I've got 1000 hours in that and it's not even released yet. Most recently I've picked up Slay the Spire and have hundreds of hours in it already. Each of those are worth $60 but I'd have never bought them for that. All together I spent about $60 on them which - now that I know - I consider a STEAL.

The other who-knows-how-many games all fell to the wayside. I bought them, tried them, got bored, and moved on. In each case I was only out $5-$10 so no big deal. The $20 ones hurt a bit more (I'm looking at you Space Base!) but they were still throwaways. You buy 3 games for $20 each and find one worth $60, you broke even. That's the way I see it.

Based on the known factors from KSP (that I have had an almost unhealthy love for it since the day I downloaded the demo, and that KSP 2 will seemingly provide a much larger canvas in multiple ways to enjoy what I enjoy about KSP), I'm pretty darn sure it'd be that one game worth $60 from the group of 3. I don't know how sure exactly, but I'm really, really sure. This is speaking for me only, of course. Your opinion seems quite different from mine. From what I read, KSP2 is EXACTLY what I want in a sequel to KSP, in much the same way that KSP was EXACTLY what I wanted in the first place.

So for me it's a slam dunk. $60 for as near a guarantee as you can get of a multi-thousand-hours-of-pure-enjoyment? Shut up and take my money. Will I also drop a hundred more on 10 other games, 1-3 of which will catch my fancy as well? Sure. But I have no idea which of those games I'll actually love, and which ones will sink to the bottom of my Steam list.

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I understand that some people think that $USD60 is too much for a game, but as others pointed out, won't it be worth it? I mean as a student in Australia, saving up $80 won't be easy, and I'm still going to buy it. The new devs are really promising and so is the game.

For those who still think that $60 is too much, we have half an year until the release to save up. I'm going to save up every gold coin I see.:)

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12 hours ago, Pecan said:

I do not recognise (with an 's') that USD $60 is the 'de facto' standard price for games.  My posts detailed exactly why that is.

It not.  But $60 USD probably is the defacto price for AAA titles.  https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/b7ch82/when_did_60_become_the_standard_price_for_aaa/ .  Indie titles tend to be cheaper.   (But not always.  There are also some hard-core games with that will only appeal to a small market segment that sometimes go for significantly more, even though they definitely aren't AAA.  eg https://www.matrixgames.com/game/war-in-the-pacific-admirals-edition).  

 

But ultimately you get to spend your money as you wish.  Personally I will hold off buying KSP 2 until after release, and after I have seen some reviews/let's play videos.  Possibly I will even wait until it gets some patches and maybe goes on sale.  (I haven't spent more than $20 USD on a game in years.  Whilst I expect I will get plenty of value out of KSP 2, I also have other games I want to spend more time playing, so unless the reviews/let's play videos are exceptional, I'll probably be in no rush to purchase).

 

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4 hours ago, Yeet_TheDinosaur said:

I understand that some people think that $USD60 is too much for a game, but as others pointed out, won't it be worth it? I mean as a student in Australia, saving up $80 won't be easy, and I'm still going to buy it. The new devs are really promising and so is the game.

For those who still think that $60 is too much, we have half an year until the release to save up. I'm going to save up every gold coin I see.:)

Yea, like my aussie friend, that $60 everyone is talking about works out to over $93 here in New Zealand - Don't you just love exchange rates :(

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On 9/9/2019 at 1:51 PM, Bamapride6969 said:

Please please please pay better attention to console version. Don't forget about Xbox one X. Have KSP and still no mods and so so so far behind PC. Love the game don't get me wrong but can really improve on console.

I am pretty sure that mods* will not and can not come to consoles.

The console manufacturers have requirements, and as far as I know, none of them allow running any sort of code that has not been validated by them.  As such, any mod that needs or uses any sort of code(even module manager scripts, which includes just about every mod out there), will require expensive validation by the console manufacturer for each version of the mod, and some core mods(like Module Manager), will be flat-out forbidden.  So don't blame SQUAD and don't hold your breath when it comes to mods on consoles, as consoles are not at all mod friendly.

* freely available community created mods

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:06 AM, Pecan said:

Why would I want to do that?  As I said, I've never paid £60 for a game and I have no intention of paying £60 for a game.  KSP 2 may be worth that to some people, it isn't to me.

The four single-player games I've spent over 1,000 hours on are:
KSP 4,000+ hrs, £15
Rimworld 1,200 hrs, £19
Mount & Blade: Warband 1,020 hrs, £15
Rome: Total War 1,009 hrs, £25

Oblivion was possibly the most expensive game I have ever bought - about £28 IIRC, on DVD, with feelies.

Good luck to those price-gouging.  Good luck, even, to @MechBFP who wants to be gouged and seems to be 'informed' about something those of us who have been playing KSP since early alpha are not.

@coyotesfrontier; note that I did not say "KSP is bad because Unity", "KSP is bad" or "KSP 2 will be bad".  I just think that there will be nothing revolutionary in the new version that would justify AAA headline franchise pricing.  Mostly because, as above, I don't think that pricing is ever justifiable anyway.

@Galileo would you really pay USD $180 for a game though, however good?  Assuming you have KSP 1 do you really think 2 will be $180 better?  Three times as good as any other game you could buy even?  How many people in the world do you think USD $180 could feed, that you'd "easily pay" for a game?

KSP 1 will comfortably last me until I can get 2 for a sensible price.

Just a tiny bit of comparison.

 

Your cost - per - hour for each game is thus.

 

Kerbal:  0.375 pence per hour of play

Rimworld:  1.580 pence per hour of play

Warband: 1.500 pence per hour of play

Rome: 2.470 pence per hour of play

You have spent (vis your posted numbers) roughly 7,000 hours playing these 4 games in the last ~8 years.  I'll assume that you work full time @ a minimum wage job 6.70 / hour (not that you do, but mere for context). That's roughly 13,000 hours worked. Ok, so every two hours you work, you are getting 1 hour of gaming enjoyment. 

 

For the two hours you spend working (and earning 13.40 while you are at it) here is the number of seconds you spent paying for each game.

 

Kerbal: 1 second

Rimworld: 4 seconds

Warband: 4 seconds

Rome: 7 seconds

 

Bro, you need to seriously readjust your valuation of your own time. You are quite literally spending less than 1/1000th of your labor on what appears to be your primary form of entertainment. 

 

 

 

 

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The price does not bother me at all, non-issue. 

My hope is that they capture what KSP is, and not lose that while expanding and improving the game, from what I have seen so far I am very encouraged.

I am VERY pleased they are working to help modders, but to be honest, my first run though of KSP 2 will be with no mods whatsoever. The longevity of the game however will depend on the Modders and the developers support of that.

 

 

Edited by DwightLee
typo

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2 hours ago, DwightLee said:

The price does not bother me at all, non-issue. 

My hope is that they capture what KSP is, and not lose that while expanding and improving the game, from what I have seen so far I am very encouraged.

I am VERY pleased they are working to help modders, but to be honest, my first run though of KSP 2 will be with no mods whatsoever. The longevity of the game however will depend on the Modders and the developers support of that.

 

 

this is the best we can ever hope for

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On 9/17/2019 at 10:09 AM, Doc said:

Bro, you need to seriously readjust your valuation of your own time. You are quite literally spending less than 1/1000th of your labor on what appears to be your primary form of entertainment.

Thank you for an amusing calculation of cost.  Let's also discuss value.
In the pub I often compare the cost of computer games to other forms of entertainment and, especially, how cost-effective KSP has been for me.  While that continues to be true, why on earth or anywhere else do I 'need' to pay double or more for one particular game compared to others?

> KSP 2 will be (at least) twice the cost of competing games and four times the price I originally paid for KSP 1.
> KSP 2 offers minimal utility-value (I'm probably not going to spend another 4,000 hours on it, or learn much more about spaceflight)
> The additional functionality of KSP 2 can already be provided, free, by KSP 1 mods.
> At best what is left is a better-looking, better optimised and hopefully less buggy, version of a game I've already got (plus free mods).

So it has a very high comparative cost and a very low utility-value, for something I already own.
I didn't update Farming Simulator 2013 to 15 either, although I did get 17, then not 19.  (Note FS 19 is half the price of KSP 2).
It remains 'when', not 'if' I will get KSP 2.  KSP 1 is definitely due for replacement but not at that price, until the new-version bugs and glitches have been worked out and we can judge the new regime's attitude to patches, updates, DLC, 'optional' extras, etc.

By waiting I get a lower-cost and better-value product.
And the opportunity to learn whether T2 => Private Division => Star Theory are even people with whom I wish to do business.
Meanwhile, KSP 1 remains plus I'll buy and play four or more other games/genres using the money and time KSP 2 would require.

(* Oops, I got drunk once and bought the A10 for DCS.  GBP £50 for one plane that I've perhaps spent 3 hours learning to operate!
I also remember that I've bought KSP 1 twice; originally direct from Squad and then in a Steam sale.  Still half the cost of KSP 2).

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1 hour ago, Pecan said:

why on earth or anywhere else do I 'need' to pay double or more for one particular game compared to others?

You don't. It's the basic question of economics. Is it worth what they're charging? If yes, buy it. If no, don't.

If it's worth it for enough people, they priced it correctly. If it's not, they didn't. As a niche product with a small but eager fan base, I expect they priced it correctly.

Edited by 5thHorseman

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I think this “like” malfunction is just an evil plot to delay @tater‘s journey to 20kilorep until some jealous moderators can catch up....

*like*

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Heh. I like that its xkcd_rss.

Like. Or rep. Or whatever it's called.

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23 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

If it's worth it for enough people, they priced it correctly. If it's not, they didn't. As a niche product with a small but eager fan base, I expect they priced it correctly.

Exactly so.  Thankfully, you've always understood that it's a subjective decision, which is why I included "for/to me" clauses.

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23 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

You don't. It's the basic question of economics. Is it worth what they're charging? If yes, buy it. If no, don't.

If it's worth it for enough people, they priced it correctly. If it's not, they didn't. As a niche product with a small but eager fan base, I expect they priced it correctly.

*like*

Though I'd say " Is it worth for you what they're charging?"

Edited by VoidSquid

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