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Kerbal Space Program 2: Master Post


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On 6/30/2020 at 4:47 PM, DirtyFace83 said:
On 6/30/2020 at 4:18 PM, Master39 said:

KSP is not Elite Dangerous, how would a persistent universe on dedicated servers work? Unless it's just a private coop with free hosting it wouldn't work. 

I mean a la DMP. Rather than a la No Man's Sky. Where any or all players can log off and have a life, and the Kerbals on the way to the mun continue on their journey.

I can't understand why you wouldn't mind the game continuously running after you log off.  I want to log off and have a life, not pick between my Kerbals either ploughing into the Mun or swinging away, or living my own life and having to set up another mission.

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15 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I can't understand why you wouldn't mind the game continuously running after you log off.  I want to log off and have a life, not pick between my Kerbals either ploughing into the Mun or swinging away, or living my own life and having to set up another mission.

Well for me, I much prefer the game coming to a stop and my universe vanishing into the ether when I am not on ksp. Its peace of mind for me. Having a life away from ksp by definition means ksp will get left untouched for days or months or for me for a while nearly 19 months as I just could not bring myself to play. In that time if your game is soldiering on without you what can go wrong? What WILL go wrong? Is losing kerbals or entire missions to persistent going worth it? No. This isn't even touching multiplayer, which I wont cover again (done it enough over the years).

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Edited by AlamoVampire
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  • 3 weeks later...

I have confidence in the Devs. 

They are passionate, able and persistent. They'll be fine.

As long as the bean counters stay out of it and we keep our jimmies from rustling over every little thing, KSP2 will be everything we need for the next decade or two.

So until Elder Scrolls 6 comes out.

Edited by Chakkoty
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7 hours ago, Karolina23 said:

Friends, is this space program a part of national space centre program?

Well, kind of. I mean, there are no nations. Or even cities. The space program is pretty much the entirety of civilization on this planet. But they do appear to have government backing, even though there's no government. 

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6 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Well, kind of. I mean, there are no nations. Or even cities. The space program is pretty much the entirety of civilization on this planet. But they do appear to have government backing, even though there's no government. 

Or anything else for that matter, I only play on sand box because in a civilization that lacks everything, money would be pointless

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/21/2020 at 6:12 AM, Bej Kerman said:

I can't understand why you wouldn't mind the game continuously running after you log off.  I want to log off and have a life, not pick between my Kerbals either ploughing into the Mun or swinging away, or living my own life and having to set up another mission.

I played Eve Online for 9 and a bit years.  Logging in every day to do upkeep and maintenance, make sure to do security sweeps to look for other players intent on doing harm, running background checks on players wishing to join our corp to weed out potential spies and thieves.

I am so done with 'always on' games.  Like others have said, I have a life away from the computer, and worrying about whether something is happening in my KSP game while I'm away, or being unwilling to launch a mission because I wouldn't be at the computer when critical events need minding, would both be joy killers.

KSP default is hard enough as a player who didn't even take high school physics.  The joy of managing my first rendezvous, and then actually docking two craft, performing EVA transfers, and mating up a multi-launch mission out to Jool is what I'm here for. Not tedious upkeep and being forced to play on a schedule I don't have control over.

No, thank you, to always-running KSP.

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Always on is doable if they add automation(You could even automate refueling launches or set paths for mining ships to deliver fuel to places and for stations to fix their orbits.). Which then leads to ideas for more gameplay because it will need more. It's not bad if you are hoping to get a more complex game. Like more stuff to do on a planet. Once mining and stuff are automated it starts to turn into an offline rts potentially. Which could have fun stuff continuously added to it.

I used to play a game called, "Alien Legacy." It would probably be like that a bit. To put that in perspective. That would make KSP minimally like a 25 year old game. But with improved graphics and physics.

If they don't want to add combat, they could add other types of stuff from other game genres that are non fighting/exploration based. Or other things like resources or sciency. Maybe making a giant building or dyson sphere or something stupid for fun. Then maybe add in sim city logic. I would think that could be minimally done without physics based objects. They already have the ground work. Then KSP2 could be different by being voxel instead of non interactive 3d. KSP1 could be like survival games like arc. But without damage or parts counts. Unless they add it to allow meteors to hit stuff. Then they could use reduced parts counts as it doesn't matter to aero or anything. Basicaly fuse the parts into a single giant building with an unpackager to modify it.

They coudl still add the same things as in the combat part of alien legacy. But just have it be passive and for gathering resources or something restricted. Then add onto it more in other ways.

This wouldn't have to change KSP. It could just add layers and more options for gameplay. You could still stick to primitive ships/launches and infastructures.

And always on could be an option also. A tick box could be added to pause while offline or have it run and simulate. Or atleast simulate for what should have happened while offline depending on the variation or chosen version.(They could add both) The rest of these ideas could be added regardless of offline play.

In fact always on with automation, or just automation, would fix problem with large stations for the moment. If you can do it and not have to be near the station. No lag. 8)

Edited by Arugela
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Before they take the word multiplayer in their mouth, they should make sure that teh performance is well enough.

 

Just struggled 2 days with performance issues. I play KSP since 2011. And there was no progress in performance. 9 years, several pc upgrades and countless KSP versions later - the same old story.

So main task, the most important and non debatable thing is: Performance! We need 30+ fps for huge stations/bases. And not on a NASA supercomputer, on a regular mid/high class PC.

I honestly don't need persistance Multiplayer. I would not make use of it. If it is a freeby after they took care of the performance and bugs, why not.

But ask the Star Citizen devs (yeah I am a backer, not only this game, so many games already) how much work it is to make a persistant universe. It's not done easily. And they have to run servers across the planet 24/7 to ensure lag free gameplay from everywhere. That's I don't think in the budget of this company, even if they sell a million copies.

Reading that Unity will be used for KSP2 lowers my expectations to be honest. Let's see. I also just read that they want to focus especially on being able to build huge stations/bases. But boy oh boy have I been disappointed by so many games in the past 20 years. Countless broken promises. Therefore, let's see what will happen. I am unsure if I would be willing to once again backing a game in Alhpa/Beta Status (if that is what they are going for, I think not as they mentioned a release date next year autumn, without mentioning Beta)

Edited by Duke-49th
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On 9/2/2020 at 3:50 AM, Arugela said:

Always on is doable if they add automation(You could even automate refueling launches or set paths for mining ships to deliver fuel to places and for stations to fix their orbits.). Which then leads to ideas for more gameplay because it will need more. It's not bad if you are hoping to get a more complex game. Like more stuff to do on a planet. Once mining and stuff are automated it starts to turn into an offline rts potentially. Which could have fun stuff continuously added to it.

Doable but not bearable if you want to look further than sending a station to LKO. Even with automation, who will be there to make sure Laythe Station I's emergency reentry parachutes go off in the case of a launch failure? Who will be there to make sure that the current automated setup is sending enough food to that station I left slap bang between Kerbol and Puf?

On 9/3/2020 at 7:03 PM, Duke-49th said:

But ask the Star Citizen devs (yeah I am a backer, not only this game, so many games already) how much work it is to make a persistant universe. It's not done easily. And they have to run servers across the planet 24/7 to ensure lag free gameplay from everywhere. That's I don't think in the budget of this company, even if they sell a million copies.

Fortunately for the KSP 2 devs, assuming a persistent universe is the goal and not personal servers, there's a single player mode which 99% of players will flock to instead of the persistent MP.

On 9/3/2020 at 7:03 PM, Duke-49th said:

Reading that Unity will be used for KSP2 lowers my expectations to be honest.

Oh great, assuming Unity is poor, because its accessibility has let many inexperienced people make low quality things with it and have the Unity logo branded on the loading screen, really helps the Unity team and the KSP 2 devs. "Unity bad, less accessible platforms good" isn't a valid factor when it comes to expectations for KSP 2.

On 9/3/2020 at 7:03 PM, Duke-49th said:

Let's see. I also just read that they want to focus especially on being able to build huge stations/bases. But boy oh boy have I been disappointed by so many games in the past 20 years. Countless broken promises. Therefore, let's see what will happen. I am unsure if I would be willing to once again backing a game in Alhpa/Beta Status (if that is what they are going for, I think not as they mentioned a release date next year autumn, without mentioning Beta)

If KSP 2 succeeds, hooray for the future us that get to explore interstellar space. If not, so be it. The world hasn't ended and it was worth a shot. Here's an idea, just don't back games, because it usually ends in heartbreak. Oh, especially with Star Citizen, because as far as I can tell, the money raised has gone to a cheap, still alpha game, some servers and what we can only assume is golden water fountains and real spaceships for when Earth inevitably suffocates in humanity's carbon emissions. Sorry for the tangent, just stop backing games instead of repeatedly hitting endless money pits as you alluded to.

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On 9/1/2020 at 11:50 PM, Arugela said:

Then maybe add in sim city logic.

That would be nice, I was thinking in something like Anno series, you have a colony with a number of normal Kerbals that could give you a mining/refuel rate, a few number of engineer that could give a parts contruction rate and a fewer number of scientists that gives some tecnology development rate. So if you are in a hurry for some tecnology or material that is exclusive of that planet you need to build a huge colony to get it faster.

Edited by airtrafficcontroller
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On 9/6/2020 at 6:49 AM, Bej Kerman said:

Oh great, assuming Unity is poor, because its accessibility has let many inexperienced people

Not sure if the Cities skylines devs are inexperienced. I doubt it.

I am not a coder. Just a player who experience issues with unity's engine when it gets a bit more complex (in terms of quantity) with calculations.

And all I read is that it is unity that is limiting the capabilities for devs.

If that info is wrong, good.

I don't mind the engine, as long as it works. If they surprise me with a fluid gamin experience with tons of bases/structures, I am all for it.

I will wait and see whats coming :)

 

Quote

If KSP 2 succeeds, hooray for the future us that get to explore interstellar space. If not, so be it. The world hasn't ended and it was worth a shot.

This :)

 

Quote

Here's an idea, just don't back games, because it usually ends in heartbreak. Oh, especially with Star Citizen, because as far as I can tell, the money raised has gone to a cheap, still alpha game, some servers and what we can only assume is golden water fountains and real spaceships for when Earth inevitably suffocates in humanity's carbon emissions. Sorry for the tangent, just stop backing games instead of repeatedly hitting endless money pits as you alluded to.

Yeah, I am resistant to learn haha. Sometimes it is also a bit tactic behaviour. For SC, it seems that it makes progress. Slowly but surely. I just bought a package several months ago. So I am not one of the first backers. I backed in back that time into Elite Dangerous and was dissapointed and still are. So I said no to SC.

Now I saw videos and thought, ok, maybe it will take another 3-5 years, but it seems to become a great game. I took a risk and backed in with a basic starter kit. If the game will be released, I don't have to start at 0. And maybe the game will be more expensive than it is atm with the starter packs. So that was my idea behind this.

 

Other than that, I became pretty hesitent to invest money in alphas/betas. 

Edited by Duke-49th
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2 hours ago, miguelsgamingch said:

KSP 2 Is The 8th most Wishlisted Game In Steam Cuurently, as im wriiting this.

It makes me chuckle when I see lists like that, or when I see developers/publishers urging people to add their game to their wishlist to 'help' them.

Full disclosure: I've spent and continue to spend a frankly embarrassing amount of disposable income on games - I own (*) more games than I can realistically expect to ever play in one lifetime. I have always and will continue to gladly pay for games that I feel are worth it to me. That said:

I am one of those that have KSP2 wishlisted on Steam. It's one item on a 'wishlist' of over 200. BUT. Something being on my wishlist means exactly Didley with regards to my inclination to buy it at the time of release or even anytime soon afterwards. Many items on that wishlist have lived there for ... quite literally years, to the point where some have been pulled off Steam again while still living on my wishlist. When I truly want a game, I don't put it on my wishlist, I BUY it. Plain and simple.

Steam's wishlist is just the only convenient way offered to me -and I suspect many others- to get timely notifications of sales and price changes. 'Follow' doesn't do this (it only spams me with frequently-useless 'update' messages), and the store offers no other way to get notified of price changes. Iow: my 'wishlist' is basically a list of items I feel are overpriced for what they offer now, and I MIGHT consider buying at some point in the future... MAYBE... IF the price drops to a level I consider to be worth it. If not, well, make yourself comfortable in my 'wishlist', you may be there for a long time. In the meantime, I spend my money elsewhere and my play time on any number of my growing list of thousands of other games I already own. It's not like I'll go bored.

We'll see what KSP2 looks like come release, but I fully expect it will live on my wishlist for at least a while after release - the price level announced means to me they'll have to come up with something quite astounding for me to buy it right away - I am skeptical these days and will wait and see. Hell, I still haven't (re)bought Breaking Ground for KSP1 to sync up my Steam version cause it won't drop in price, and I refuse to pay what they're asking for a still-broken DLC. Fool me once...

 

(*: 'own' being more and more of a misnomer these days since publishers moved to 'licenses to use' with more DRM, more limitations, more release-day bugs, and less guarantees of continued availability, every passing year. Ask me again why I am less and less inclined to pay premium AAA prices for the privilege of alpha-testing your supposedly released game until such time as you decide to change or withdraw my already paid-for 'license to use'. Insert *smiley face* *smiley face* *thumbs up* *peace sign* #hashtag here.).

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43 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

[...]

One of the main critics of "Steam Direct" is that it fills Steam with rubbish to solve that Valve, instead of closing everything and killing self-publishing like other stores do, decided to implement an algoritm to distinguish between legit indie games and lazy assets flips to avoid giving the latter any marketing, hiding them from view on the store.

Wishlist counts is an important part of that, basically what it means for Valve is not "all those people will buy that game", but simply "all those people recognize it as a legit game or at least something they may want to buy so it's worth to give that game some of that precious visibility on the store"

I love that to the point of considering any other closed store a parassite of this system, too many of my favourite games are made by really small teams (like VTOL VR, for example)

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Wouldn't that mean that any, "company," can simply get a bunch of accounts and wishlist their games to seem legit. That seems like a bad system. I didn't know they hid games either. I wonder if we are missing anything good because of it.

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1 hour ago, Arugela said:

I wonder if we are missing anything good because of it.

The problem with this sort of statements is that nobody other than Valve really knows what Valve's algorithm does, and Valve purposely won't tell. There's been a lot of speculation about it, a lot of people trying to goad Valve into clarifying, analyzing questionable statistics and numbers and interpreting their partial views on effectiveness and trends and results... but it's still just that, pure speculation. When pressed, Valve spokespersons have only gone as far as to say that wishlists are 'not the only' variable they look at, or words to that effect. So who knows.

That's why I was not talking about what Valve intended those lists to be or what they think it means when games are wishlisted. I'm talking about what *I* use it for, and what I've seen others comment they use it for. Valve and/or game publishers can interpret it all to hell and back any way they feel like; it doesn't make it any more likely for a wishlist to become an actual sale. All the AI and algorithmic effort they've been putting into trying to guess what games I may be interested in hasn't gotten them to get any better at it either - I still get complete crap recommendations and have to look for stuff on my own.

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2 hours ago, Arugela said:

Wouldn't that mean that any, "company," can simply get a bunch of accounts and wishlist their games to seem legit. That seems like a bad system. I didn't know they hid games either. I wonder if we are missing anything good because of it.

Obviously there's more than that and the point of being on Steam is not about having free marketing, but about not having to implement all of the features of a modern store on your own crappy site to sell your game.

 

50 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

That's why I was not talking about what Valve intended those lists to be or what they think it means when games are wishlisted. I'm talking about what *I* use it for, and what I've seen others comment they use it for.

It doesn't matter what you use wishlists for, you're legitimizing the game and allowing the dev to send you marketing material, that's enough for them to consider it "helpful".   

 

52 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

All the AI and algorithmic effort they've been putting into trying to guess what games I may be interested in hasn't gotten them to get any better at it either - I still get complete crap recommendations and have to look for stuff on my own.

For me the recommendations are pretty spot on, I even discovered one or two games that i didn't know in some genres I usually play, but yes they still have a lot of work to put into it to make it work right. 

Honestly I can hardly complain since they're the only big player on the market even trying something like this.

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but since of COVID-19 will KSP2 be released on MAC, Xbox, and PS4 at all at once? Or will I have to wait another year after release???

Edited by Dr. Kerbal
My first post.
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2 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

but since of COVID-19 will KSP2 be released on MAC, Xbox, and PS4 at all at once? Or will I have to wait another year after release???

I doubt that Covid-19 will make any difference to that.

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