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Kerbal Space Program 2: Master Post


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19 hours ago, MarsUltor said:

While there might be an early access version, March to April seems exceptionally optimistic... realistically, if they just pushed the game to 2022, my guess is the game will be out in 18-24 months (fall or Christmas 2022)... so, maybe if we’re lucky, in a year, but I’d guess if they’re gonna do an early access, it’ll be to beta test the multiplayer functionalities, which would probably only be a few months before release.

kinda a weird idea but why dont we petition a early access version?   i mean it cant hurt to see if they will consider it?

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16 hours ago, dprostock said:

We should see it in two years to see what they finally offer...
I already lived this with Ubisoft and the Silent Hunter V...

SH5(stock) was and is  a bug filled mess. Thanks to subsim mod community for salvaging SH5.

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19 hours ago, Hallahan said:

kinda a weird idea but why dont we petition a early access version?   i mean it cant hurt to see if they will consider it?

Because 2022 is gonna be the playable early access version...

Edit, in a more serious note its because they want the maximum release impact in all platforms and having an early access only in pc takes away the excitment

of  the release day, meaning interest in consoles will be way less.

Edited by Boyster
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Early access?

Hmm.  My personal opinion, but I doubt it will happen.  And I am not convinced it would be a good idea anyway, except for perhaps releasing a proper 'Demo' version a few weeks earlier.

Why?...

First,  KSP1 needed to 'test the waters' to see if it was a viable product/business plan.  And it evolved enormously as a result.  KSP2 doesn't need that.

Second, a huge amount has been learned from KSP1 and the features it has, and the community responses, discussions and requests.  KSP2 can tap into that, wheras it just didn't exist for KSP1.

Third, I think the vast majority of content and major gameplay decisions have been made already.  Early access would not help with that.

Fourth.  They don't need the distraction of the wider community consatantly making requests.

Edited by pandaman
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On 11/10/2020 at 12:28 AM, Bej Kerman said:

And not a single person has yet to explain why Unity is so awful. All I can do is point to 2kliksphilip's video explaining why this anti-Unity thing people have going on is complete and total rubbish.

Since the bar is so low, I will answer it for you. GRAPHICS. Graphics, buddy, among other things related to performance.

Unity is a low resource, mobile and web games platform. If you want to be in the league with the big boys with eye candy, plus the features, you go with Unreal Engine.

Edited by mystik
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3 hours ago, mystik said:
On 11/9/2020 at 10:28 PM, Bej Kerman said:

And not a single person has yet to explain why Unity is so awful. All I can do is point to 2kliksphilip's video explaining why this anti-Unity thing people have going on is complete and total rubbish.

Since the bar is so low, I will answer it for you. GRAPHICS. Graphics, buddy, among other things related to performance.

Unity is a low resource, mobile and web games platform. If you want to be in the league with the big boys with eye candy, plus the features, you go with Unreal Engine.

And just like everyone else, you view the world through exceedingly black-and-white lenses. Unity does not necessarily amount to bad graphics (refer to KSP Parallax mod and KSP 2 terrain dev post) and Unreal does not necessarily amount to good graphics (refer to every game remake out there but with the default graphics). I'm not going to entirely ignore the possibility that what you wrote is sarcastic, but anyway, I'll just link the video since it seems you have yet to watch it.

https://youtu.be/bBFZ1KR8oVE

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On 11/11/2020 at 5:13 PM, Bej Kerman said:

And just like everyone else, you view the world through exceedingly black-and-white lenses. Unity does not necessarily amount to bad graphics (refer to KSP Parallax mod and KSP 2 terrain dev post) and Unreal does not necessarily amount to good graphics (refer to every game remake out there but with the default graphics). I'm not going to entirely ignore the possibility that what you wrote is sarcastic, but anyway, I'll just link the video since it seems you have yet to watch it.

https://youtu.be/bBFZ1KR8oVE

No, I watched plenty of videos on the topic. Out of the box, Unreal has better graphics, while Unity requires a lot of effort to upgrade the graphics. Second, Unity is a mess of bugs and garbage collection. We can see it in KSP. Playing KSP for a few hours and with 4 cores, 16GB RAM and 1060 and SSD I get slow performance when switching to anything. I don't really get similar performance issues with Unreal games.

 

It's not just the graphics. I get that KSP was an indie game and Unity was the choice as it was beginner friendly. But see, they wanna charge AAA money on KSP2, but still use Unity? Now that seems like a ripoff to me. If you want to make big $ then use the big boy engine like the rest of the serious devs. You're not selling lemonade at the stand anymore.

 

You can be a partisan all you want and praise the KPS2 developers all day. In the end they still have not delivered on a single promise, I don't know why people are so eager beaver about it. Delays don't mean a better game all the time, because Duke Nukem Forever exists and that took 15 years of delays and still came out as a turd.

 

If Unity is the [snip] of developers why does the kraken exist to the point where it has become a meme? I get that you have enthusiasm +999 but I don't see why. KSP is a good game but it is horribly optimized and this is not due to lack of trying, but to the engine lacking. Now go find me more videos that favor Unity over Unreal where the best you can hear is "they're just as good", because I hear most devs saying that Unity is easy to learn like a slow unoptimized children's bike with training wheels on, but if you want to do serious grown up mountain biking, you need a serious bike that can take the beating of hours on the track.

Edited by Gargamel
Portions Redacted by Moderator
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1 hour ago, mystik said:

If Unity is the wet dream of developers why does the kraken exist to the point where it has become a meme?

Because of the way Squad choose to simulates the physics of individual parts (including the values they choose for stiffness and damping of joints.  If you made the same choices in Unreal engine, I expect you would get similar results).  I expect they decided that bending/flexing rockets add to the comedic appeal of the game, the same as waddling Kerbals, and so didn't want to change the physics simulation.  So in my opinion the Kraken is probably the result of choice made by KSP's developers.  

You keep pointing to the flaws in KSP/Unity games in general, and using that to claim that Unity is bad.  I think in many cases a lot of the blame for poor graphics in Unity games is simply because it is used by a lot of small, inexperienced game developers.  Small inexperienced game developers are going to struggle to make top quality graphics regardless of which engine they choose because they lack the time, money and experience of larger more experience teams.  That is the way life works, and not a reason to blaming the game engine those smaller developers choose.  (Also remember that the initial release of KSP was back in June 2011.  You should expect that the sequel will have updated graphics).

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14 hours ago, AVaughan said:

 So in my opinion the Kraken is probably the result of choice made by KSP's developers.  

Perhaps, but not only. Divisions by Zero, multiplication by Infinity or NaN, all of these summon the Krakens on the game. It's related to the Physics Engine, not to the choices made by Squad - any misbehaving Add'On can inject such anomalies on the Physics Engine, by the way - and besides Squad had closed some doors on it, there're many more.

 

14 hours ago, AVaughan said:

You keep pointing to the flaws in KSP/Unity games in general, and using that to claim that Unity is bad.  I think in many cases a lot of the blame for poor graphics in Unity games is simply because it is used by a lot of small, inexperienced game developers.

Unity has serious flaws, most of them created by inexperienced developers hired by Unity. :)

Right now, KSP >=1.8 is plain crashing to the desktop due a serious bork on the particle systems on some newer GPUs (older GPUs, by some reason, are imune to the problem - oh, irony!!). It's fixed by now, but KSP needs to update the Unity engine to have it fixed for it.

This was a pretty serious regression, that should not had reached the mainstream - the conclusion is that Unity's development process is... insufficient. And insufficient processes leads to bad products. 

 

15 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

By all means they should switch engines. I mean, what's 5 more years' delay now?

It was I initially my thought. However, besides the inherent flaws from Unity, I think it is also one of the reasons for KSP's success - at least until the KSP 1.3 times. Unity is far from being the best Engine available (IMHO), but it's popular, it's easy and I don't think we would have so many Add'Ons available if people had to develop using Unreal and C++.

Edited by Lisias
Typos and a link added.
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22 hours ago, fragtzack said:

SH5(stock) was and is  a bug filled mess. Thanks to subsim mod community for salvaging SH5.

You know the whole story?
They invited fans of the fan clubs and modders to sell the idea of SH5... delayed it twice, and its staff rotated constantly. Faced with the situation of cancellation, on a low budget, they took out the crap that lost all the essence of the original SH3, becoming a rare thing... 

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6 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

By all means they should switch engines. I mean, what's 5 more years' delay now?

Don't be ridiculous, the last person to consider C++ and Unreal to be the solution to you and your dog's problems would be you.

6 hours ago, mystik said:

If Unity is the wet dream of developers why does the kraken exist to the point where it has become a meme?

Because of the developers, not the tools. If someone makes a shed and it ends up looking terrible, are you going to blame it on the manufacturers of the tools? I honestly would not be surprised if that's the actions you would take. Point is, the devs made the Kraken, not Unity. 

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On 11/10/2020 at 11:37 AM, dprostock said:

91JKH4aEqEL._SY445_.jpgWaiting... some may have all the time in the Universe.

Well... one guy does. Pretty sure Ramirez and Castigan aren't going to be playing KSP2. To misquote Kirk, "I don't believe in the Zeist scenario"

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5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Don't be ridiculous, the last person to consider C++ and Unreal to be the solution to you and your dog's problems would be you.

I don't have a dog, but it is true that if I did and we had problems, I'd probably not look for programmatic solutions to them.

(this is a fun way to say I don't know what that meant)

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Beta access should not be considered a feature from players, it's a tool for the developing studio and one that has only a few specific use cases in which should be considered justifiable from the public:

  • The studio making the game is very small and can't afford their own playtesters.
  • The game is something completely new and never seen before.
  • The game is an MMO that needs an open beta day to stress-test the serverside infrastructure.

KSP1 meets the first 2, but KSP2 meets none of them, they already have plenty of data on what we want with the last 8 years of KSP1 (and relative community interactions) and they have a team specifically built to make this game by one of the biggest publishers out there, they don't need "our help" to make the game and a beta would only lower the quality and cohesion of the finished product (and before saying to me that that's not true open KSP1 and put a Oscar-B near one of the newly reworked parts).

The only exuses one may have for wanting an early access is either impatience or hoping to have the game both earlier and discounted for being not finished.

 

PS lol at the resurrection of the Unity argument.

Edited by Master39
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On 11/12/2020 at 11:37 AM, Superfluous J said:

By all means they should switch engines. I mean, what's 5 more years' delay now?

Yes, but you would get a much better game because of the delay, or so I heard on the forums. The secret to a good game is as much delay as possible. Hardwork and sticking to the timetables well, it just ain't it, chief.

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20 minutes ago, mystik said:

Yes, but you would get a much better game because of the delay, or so I heard on the forums. The secret to a good game is as much delay as possible. Hardwork and sticking to the timetables well, it just ain't it, chief.

If the contracts are fulfilled, if there are no new changes and if good programmers are achieved. Two years are a long time in trade policies AND DOES NOT ENSURE A GOOD FINAL PRODUCT IN ANY WAY, moreover, considering the size of the company...
I don't trust what's published on the forums, I've already lived it with other products from other companies. 

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