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KSP2 Hype Train Thread


GregroxMun
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  • 3 weeks later...

With all due respect for the KSP2 dev team (and it is truly a lot of respect, don't get me wrong), but the more I learn about KSP2, the less I'm hyped, the more I'm frustrated and sad.

A true down drag for me was the new UI as detailed in Shadow Zone's video a week ago.

What the heck?:

Why would you put essential stuff like navball or altimeter to a corner of the screen, why put non-essential stuff like Kerbal portraits or time warp to the center?

Imo, this is not only counter intuitive but totally any against common sense how to create a good UI.

From the few bits I know about KSP2, weighting (purely on my personal scale) against each other, atm I'm less and less inclined to play KSP2 :( 

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On 8/9/2020 at 2:08 AM, VoidSquid said:

Why would you put essential stuff like navball or altimeter to a corner of the screen, why put non-essential stuff like Kerbal portraits or time warp to the center?

By popular demand, there will be a navball-center option available for the flight HUD.

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8 minutes ago, Nate Simpson said:

By popular demand, there will be a navball-center option available for the flight HUD.

 And, as we see, the devs have thought of everything:)

hype fuel, whoo-hoo!

Edited by Lewie
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25 minutes ago, Nate Simpson said:

By popular demand, there will be a navball-center option available for the flight HUD.

Thanks @Nate Simpson for that, much appreciated :) 

I'm still asking myself though, where does the idea come from in the first place to put essential core elements of the UI into a corner while putting secondary stuff to the middle? Can't wrap my head around this, sorry.

In a car, for example, the central instrument is the speedometer, followed by the 2nd tier instruments like rev meter, fuel gauge, etc. There are good reasons why the speedometer is the biggest and most central display, aren't they?

So what gave you the idea to put core displays to a corner of the screen then?

Edited by VoidSquid
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4 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Thanks @Nate Simpson for that, much appreciated :) 

I'm still asking myself though, where does the idea come from in the first place to put essential core elements of the UI into a corner while putting secondary stuff to the middle? Can't wrap my head around this, sorry.

It's a good question. The short version is that the navball at the center of the screen, especially at lower screen resolutions, covers up a significant portion of the scene -- including the bottom of your rocket (and more importantly, the rocket's shadow on the ground, which many players use to gauge altitude during the final phases of a propulsive landing). We tested multiple (and by that, I mean dozens of) HUD variants, with both players of the original game (like me) and new players. Anecdotally, players who had not played KSP before liked the less-cluttered presentation of the navball at the corner, while existing KSP players were pretty split. In the end, we decided that we'd leave it to individual players to decide. 

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Thanks again for your time and the explanations, quite interesting I have to say :) 

Regarding visibility of the rear end of the rocket, right now (i.e. KSP 1) I can a) adjust the camera (aim at the engine or landing gear for example), b) hide the navball (arrow on its top), c) rely on numerical data (i.e. radar altitude) displayed at the top center.

Then, as you said, it probably makes a huge difference if you're a new or an experienced player, true.

And regarding "less-cluttered presentation of the navball at the corner", well, for me it's just the other way around, the new UI is cluttered (stuff at wrong, non-intuitive places), the KSP1 way it's way more logical, intuitive.

At any rate, thanks again for the explanations and reasoning, as well as giving us the choice! :) 

Edited by VoidSquid
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1 minute ago, VoidSquid said:

And regarding "less-cluttered presentation of the navball at the corner", well, for me it's just the other way around, the new UI is cluttered (stuff at wrong, non-intuitive places), the KSP1 way it's way more logical, intuitive.

You sure by 'logical, intuitive' you don't just mean 'what I am used to'?  ;)

(I can see arguments either way, but I know that changing UI often has people feeling the old way is 'more comfortable' - even if you can verifiablely point out that it's better.)

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Hey @DStaal,

As I said, take my example of the instruments in a car. I think it was and is a good idea to have the most important displays at central, and 2nd tier displays smaller and not-so-central. Same goes for me for KSP. I think this an argument driven by logic, not by what-I'm-used-to.

Reading what @Nate Simpson said, yes, for a beginner it might be better his way, more camera, more visual feedback, less "hard data". For me though, nowadays I rely mostly on instrument readouts, not so much on what the camera shows me.

A bit similar to scuba diving maybe, when I began, visuals were most important to me, but the further I progressed, the more the instrument readouts became the important things.

Edited by VoidSquid
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The more I think about it, the more appealing the  ui scheme looks! 

Yeah, the ‘flat’ look will take some time to get used to, but that’s really the way those are going. (Irl, most modern fighter jets and aircraft have the ‘flat’ look)

@Nate Simpson we love what you guys have done, it really looks amazing!

 

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One of the most important things for me regarding our forum: people can and do have totally opposite views of certain things, yet, it almost always stays being a civil exchange of opinions.

I like that!

Thanks to all fellow kerbonauts for this, and thanks in particular to our mods! :) 

(And I very much disagree with you, @Lewie, on various points, hehe ;) ) 

Edited by VoidSquid
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On 8/10/2020 at 4:45 PM, Nate Simpson said:

It's a good question. The short version is that the navball at the center of the screen, especially at lower screen resolutions, covers up a significant portion of the scene -- including the bottom of your rocket (and more importantly, the rocket's shadow on the ground, which many players use to gauge altitude during the final phases of a propulsive landing). We tested multiple (and by that, I mean dozens of) HUD variants, with both players of the original game (like me) and new players. Anecdotally, players who had not played KSP before liked the less-cluttered presentation of the navball at the corner, while existing KSP players were pretty split. In the end, we decided that we'd leave it to individual players to decide. 

I couldn't agree with this reasoning more. The number of times I've been coming in for a landing and had to either zoom out further than I'd like or mess about changing camera focus. I don't like hiding the navball, I feel lost without it! I'm hoping the navball can be moved freely though, I currently use a tri screen setup, and considering an ultrawide, so having it in the bottom left corner will be too far out the way. My personal preference would probably be top centre, maybe incorporating the altimeter. Failing that, at the bottom either slightly left or right of centre. All said and done, I've managed a thousand hours or so with it where it currently is, so not a big concern.

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On 8/10/2020 at 12:17 PM, VoidSquid said:

As I said, take my example of the instruments in a car.

I seriously doubt they'd put your speedometer in the window such that it hides how close you are to the car in front of you. ;)

Vertical real estate is the single biggest problem with computers (IMO). There's a reason most good software has dropped the concept of a title bar (on Firefox it's the tab bar, in Steam it's the menus, for example) and the status bar. It's why I personally put my Windows Taskbar along the left side of my screen and not the bottom. Every pixel counts. ESPECIALLY in the very center of the screen.

KSP1 manages this critical space horribly, with a navball with a huge bezel on the bottom, and an altimeter with about a dozen other things I don't care about (including a huge bezel) at the top. The FIRST thing I do in KSP when I start a new install - if for some reason I can't use a config from a previous one - is to move the navball over. The second thing I'd do if the game let me would be to move the altimeter as well.

 

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3 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Vertical real estate is the single biggest problem with computers (IMO). There's a reason most good software has dropped the concept of a title bar (on Firefox it's the tab bar, in Steam it's the menus, for example) and the status bar. It's why I personally put my Windows Taskbar along the left side of my screen and not the bottom. Every pixel counts. ESPECIALLY in the very center of the screen.

I wish Firefox had two sidebars (and I don't know why they don't do that), because I'd use one for tabs and the other for bookmarks.  As it is, since every window has many tabs, I just have to put the tab bar in the traditional top position and the bookmarks in the sidebar.

In KSP, I used to use the mod to slide the navball to the side before it was stock.  And like @Superfluous J, one of the first things I do when setting up KSP to slide the navball to the side just to get it away from the valuable screen centre.

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8 hours ago, Jacke said:

I wish Firefox had two sidebars (and I don't know why they don't do that), because I'd use one for tabs and the other for bookmarks.  As it is, since every window has many tabs, I just have to put the tab bar in the traditional top position and the bookmarks in the sidebar.

You may be interested in this:

https://vivaldi.com/

(I apologize for the minor off-topic digression.)

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/11/2020 at 1:45 AM, Nate Simpson said:

It's a good question. The short version is that the navball at the center of the screen, especially at lower screen resolutions, covers up a significant portion of the scene -- including the bottom of your rocket (and more importantly, the rocket's shadow on the ground, which many players use to gauge altitude during the final phases of a propulsive landing). We tested multiple (and by that, I mean dozens of) HUD variants, with both players of the original game (like me) and new players. Anecdotally, players who had not played KSP before liked the less-cluttered presentation of the navball at the corner, while existing KSP players were pretty split. In the end, we decided that we'd leave it to individual players to decide. 

hi Nate Simpson

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  • 2 weeks later...

KSP 2 Hype thread

FEAR = a reskinned KSP with some lackluster additions

BUT .... I guess that is what they were trying

BUT ... now the release date is pushed WAY WAY back. So now anything can happen.

( systems programmer myself / low level stuff high speed stuff etc  ----- NOT graphics or otherwise )

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