GregroxMun

KSP2 Hype Train Thread

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On 8/22/2019 at 10:58 PM, Jacke said:

Let's chill the negative waves.  We have no signs of this crap in KSP2.  Unless and until they show up, let's celebrate the positive here.

There's enough bad crap in the world to go around, don't need to make more out of whole cloth.

Agree. Sit under a tree, have some cheese, a drink, and let Moriarty fix things...

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This will be the first AAA game I am remotely interested in in a very, VERY long time... I think the last and only one before that was SWTOR in 2011 -- Too bad they Wow-ified it into supremely easy/not worth playing anymore.
So far it took them a full week and many interviews to convince me, including some big KSP community names backing these developers....
So they got me.  Let's see if they can deliver but so far it looks very inviting.  My number one interest are the better performances (as long as we don't lose gameplay gains we made overtime) because with performance gains (real ones, not fake ones) allows everything I ever dreamed of building and playing with.

So on board the hype train... and hopefully nothing will make me sick or make want to jump out. ;) 

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On 9/4/2019 at 7:55 PM, Francois424 said:

This will be the first AAA game I am remotely interested in in a very, VERY long time... 

Psst... KSP 2 isnt a AAA game, it's still an indie game, it just has a AAA Owner.

Take-Two - AAA Owner

Private Division - AAA Owner's "Indie" publisher.

Star Theory - Indie Devs

Edited by GoldForest

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1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

Psst... KSP 2 isnt a AAA game, it's still an indie game, it just has a AAA Owner.

Take-Two - AAA Owner

Private Division - AAA Owner's "Indie" publisher.

Star Theory - Indie Devs

I stand corrected.  So nothing to improve my opinion of "AAA" games still.  Pathetic.

Then it's a good thing.  I don't play a lot of Indie, but those I do I thoroughly enjoyed.

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10 hours ago, GoldForest said:

@sarbian This. 

The game is not even vaguelly in beta, nothing about modding is know beyond the "better and also lua" and we do not even know what is stock or not...
Yes, I will most likely be modding in KSP 2. It may include MJ. And even if I did not I am sure some would.
In the mean time please stick to 40 pages thread of speculation about 1 sentence by the lead dev.

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35 minutes ago, sarbian said:

The game is not even vaguelly in beta, nothing about modding is know beyond the "better and also lua" and we do not even know what is stock or not...
Yes, I will most likely be modding in KSP 2. It may include MJ. And even if I did not I am sure some would.
In the mean time please stick to 40 pages thread of speculation about 1 sentence by the lead dev.

There's nothing stopping you from just starting mechjeb 3 :P

Edited by GoldForest

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We have a selection of hype trains over here for all your hype needs! Or you can build your own! Get hype certified and earn a badge!

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 8:45 AM, GoldForest said:

There's nothing stopping you from just starting mechjeb 3 :P

You know other than the lack of any documentation about the code base.

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54 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

You know other than the lack of any documentation about the code base.

I mean, you could maybe write some utility code that works independently of any specific hooks into KSP2. I don't know how useful that would really be though.

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6 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I mean, you could maybe write some utility code that works independently of any specific hooks into KSP2. I don't know how useful that would really be though.

I you are not already doing it you should start an IT startup. You have just the right mindset.

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35 minutes ago, sarbian said:

I you are not already doing it you should start an IT startup. You have just the right mindset.

Thanks, but no. I am a dev by trade though, and have a nice, stable job.

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Haven't anticipated a game this much since baldur's gate 2 in high school.

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*Hypetrain Emergency Brake*

Why Unity Engine? All games (ksp 1 included) are laggy when there are to much items in the Unity Engine!

(Edit: grammer Mistake, I'm From germany ;) )

Edited by Schtiebuu

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7 hours ago, Schtiebuu said:

*Hypetrain Emergency Brake*

Why Unity Engine? All games (ksp 1 included) are laggy when there are to much items in the Unity Engine!

(Edit: grammer Mistake, I'm From germany ;) )

Unity isn't the problem, it's how you code the game. If they code it well, it will be able to handle thousands of parts. 

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8 hours ago, Schtiebuu said:

*Hypetrain Emergency Brake*

Why Unity Engine? All games (ksp 1 included) are laggy when there are to much items in the Unity Engine!

(Edit: grammer Mistake, I'm From germany ;) )

Ya they should have picked Unreal Engine, that way modders can use blueprints :D

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8 hours ago, Schtiebuu said:

Why Unity Engine?

Because it's cheap.


On Unity, I'm going to be mighty disappointed if KSP2 inherits all the game-engine brokenness that KSP1 has.


On the UI video posted above... No. Just no. Can we please stop with the ultra-low-contrast shades-of-grey pancake-flat UI trend already?

KSP1 navball: Looks mostly like a real-life navball, obvious effort put into 3-dimensional representation of 3-dimensional object.
KSP2 navball: Somebody made a circle in MS paint, did a colour-fill with pastel tones.

KSP1 button elements: Colours! 3D activation animations! Other stuff that has been a staple of UI design since 1991!
KSP2 button elements: Primitive shapes, all in semi-transparent shades of grey. Appears to be modelled on a watercolour painting made entirely with stencils.

KSP1 SAS & RCS buttons: Lights and buttons modelled after real-life counterparts, fitted nicely into the rest of the UI.
KSP2 SAS & RCS buttons: Circles lobbed haphazardly at the bottom of the screen, likely changing colour from grey to greyish-green when you click them.

 

Would someone kindly remind me why we are we ditching UIs that look like real-life physical control panels for a bit of grease-paper stuck to the screen again?

Edited by steve_v

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KSP1 Navball: Finished product.
KSP2 navball: Unfinished product.

39 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Would someone kindly remind me why we are we ditching UIs that look like real-life physical control panels for a bit of grease-paper stuck to the screen again?

Because it's an unfinished product. They don't want to make the same mistake KSP1 did and put a ton of work into the UI before they release the game.

Also, from the first comment on the Youtube video:

Quote

Just to be clear and to avoid confusion: As I state in the video, the UI you can see here was made by myself in photoshop based on my memory of seeing the real thing and sketches I did in a notebook. The real UI will look a lot better, this is just to give you an idea of what's going to be where. I am no Photoshop specialist, so the mockup you see is rather crude.

 

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2 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Because it's an unfinished product.

Perhaps, but then why show it to us if the finished product is going to look completely different?

3 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

They don't want to make the same mistake KSP1 did and put a ton of work into the UI before they release the game.

In my world, a released product has a release-worthy UI to go with it - not placeholders, not mockups, not a quick and-dirty 4-colour overlay on the screen.
Released == core systems fully functional, ready to play, no big upheaval for a while. The UI that lets you interact with the game is a pretty important thing to get right early-on IMO.

If putting work into the UI before product release is a mistake as you say, I'm curious as to when you think it should be worked on.
Shortly after release so as to confuse new players when it changes radically?
At some specific but unannounced time later in development, for added surprise factor?
When a game-engine update randomly obsoletes all your previous work by introducing a new UI framework, because you're using Unity?

Honestly, I'm really not sure why anyone would release with an "unfinished product" UI. The UI is what people see when they first load up the game, and if that looks unfinished, so does everything else.

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11 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Perhaps, but then why show it to us if the finished product is going to look completely different?

They didn't. They had it on several off-center and very skewed screens during a video showing the developers developing.

But you did see that I misspoke.

Quote

If putting work into the UI before product release is a mistake as you say, I'm curious as to when you think it should be worked on.

I think the UI should be dead. solid. last. Along with the music and voice overs. Some time between finishing all the guts of the game and release. I meant to say "After you're done coding the meat of the game." or, maybe to shorten that "after main development" when I instead said "(not) before they release the game." I apologize.

The important thing is, while nobody (here) can say that what we saw will NOT be the final UI, we have absolutely no reason to think that it WILL.

Edited by 5thHorseman

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39 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I meant to say "After you're done coding the meat of the game.

Then we are in agreement. :) Game first, UI later, release when everything is ready.

I have no problem at all with the UI being a work in progress, that's expected, the game is also a work in progress. What concerns me is the overall style, and the fact that we have been shown that style. - It makes me strongly suspect that even if the UI gets considerable polish, it'll still be a a low-contrast metro-mess flat overlay when it's done.

I will admit that this is a personal bugbear of mine. I used to design industrial HMIs before that work was outsourced, and while those outsourced UIs are cheaper, they're also snazzy trend-following low-contrast usability nightmares.
A STOP button should be big and red, and it should be obvious when it's activated. Not greyish red, red. Not desaturated, depressed. Just like the physical button it represents, and for the same reasons. You should be able to see the state of the controls from the other side of the room, with dark-glasses on.
If you have a window open on top, it needs to look like it's on top, with no transparency and no squinting to pick out the miniscule and dead-flat borders, because people will try to click through it, and I will get called to "fix" it.
Exceptions for the sake of matching the Windoze theme or some "modern" UI design guidelines are not okay, no matter how subdued and gentle on the eyes they are, because usability with poor lighting and copious dirt come first.

Going back to games, if you want an example of the horrible result of trying too hard to look "modern", go no further than the UI in X4 - rectangles on rectangles with no discernable borders, no way to see the window stacking order, and semi-transparent UI elements that fade right into the background. It sure looks sci-fi, but it's properly painful to use - even more so because as well as being difficult to see, the normal text-handling shortcuts have been thrown out along with the pseudo-3D UI bathwater.

Edited by steve_v

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