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Posted (edited)

So, how do you think multiplayer, a thing we've all (or some) of us wanted in ksp for some time and are now getting in KSP 2, will work? My idea is that there might be a create server thing and after you create a server you can invite players to the server and build with them in real time. Maybe there will be a space-race mode where you can play against someone else and try and beat them to the mun or another moon or planet. But that's just my idea, what about you? (Edit: I guess this has now turned into a discussion thread, you can express your thoughts about the addition of multiplayer)

Edited by Johnster_Space_Program

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That space-race idea is awesome. They should definitely keep singleplayer and multiplayer separate, with the option in multiplayer to have a public or private server, so you could have up to something like 10 or 15 people playing at one time on a server or just have you and a friend or two playing.

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There'll have to be some sort of server control or vote system for timewarp but I don't know how you'll do rolling back time to revert to VAB. How does the multiplayer mod for KSP1 handle that?

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One mod is Luna Multiplayer, and they handle it like  this: https://github.com/LunaMultiplayer/LunaMultiplayer/wiki/Limitations. It is a great way of doing it by disabling it or just giving it a not a close alternate functionality. I imagine it will be something like this, a vote or an owner control thing.

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1 hour ago, Johnster_Space_Program said:

So, how do you think multiplayer... will work?

In a way that will annoy a large group of players, make another group question the abilities and/or parentage of the devs, and a way that everyone will state could have done better.

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Posted (edited)

I'd like to think it would be some kind of co-op mode with a party leader or something like that. Each player is restricted to a single kerbal in IVA mode, except for one who is a controller. Collaborative craft building would be cool to see too.

Edit:

This picture is called "Multiplayer.jpg" and it is at the multiplayer part of the promotions page. It might just be a generic image, but it might also mean that this is how multiplayer might work:

Multiplayer.jpg

Edited by MDZhB

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I really hope that it will be possible to have dedicated Servers.
Either by installing it via SteamCMD on a Linux or Windows Host or renting from a Hosting company.

That would be really awesome!

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I hope there is cross play between consoles and pc.. Would be cool, but I don't know if Star Theory would even be able to do that 

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I honestly want Squad to leave multiplayer out just to infuriate y'all.

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We are all here was waiting when KSP get multiplayer.
So on it's not gonna be happened because of KSP 2.

And it's great but with few questions.

It will be MMO-like global servers with dev-support, keep your progress safe, provide competitive PvP gameplay with hundereds of players?

Or it will be private dedicated servers which can close in any time without warning with loosing all of your progress just because server owner decide to turn it off???

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I think MMO perpetual servers is a tall ask, and would likely need to factor in some additional payment plan, either through subscription or microtransactions, neither of which I think the fanbase would get behind.

Private servers could be interesting, especially if you servers can perpetually simulate orbits, courses, burns etc.  But even without that, I think a server that would support players on different planets could be challenging, so I wouldn't take it for granted.  What's probably most likely is a P2P coop setup where you can be seperate kerbals on the same ship or local area.  Then again, the trailer did have multiple rockets taking off right at the end.  I am trying to not make too much of some of these little bits of the trailer, but the people that design these things are often very careful of what they show and what it can promise (well, except maybe for NMS, but they made good... eventually), so based on that I wouldn't count out players able to control entirely seperate vehicles across great distances.

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I guess private servers, its an cooperative game not an competitive shooter. 
Obviously one is trolling as in taking out targets with probes, second is time acceleration,  the other fool is driving around in an rover collecting science while I have an fleet underway to Jool. 

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Overlapping threads have been merged.

This sub forum is only 24 hours old.   If you have a question, others probably have had the same one.   Check the short list of existing threads before starting a new one please. 

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20 hours ago, Johnster_Space_Program said:

So, how do you think multiplayer, a thing we've all wanted in ksp for some time and are now getting in KSP 2, will work? My idea is that there might be a create server thing and after you create a server you can invite players to the server and build with them in real time. Maybe there will be a space-race mode where you can play against someone else and try and beat them to the mun or another moon or planet. But that's just my idea, what about you?

First, I have NEVER wanted MP in KSP.  I don't see it being a good thing for the game and am totally not thrilled that it will be in KSP2.  

It's been a constant theme in these forums since forever that some players have loudly criticized how other players play the game.  Same goes with loud demands for what some consider "realism" features, especially when voiced by folks who think everybody should play the way THEY want to play.  But with KSP being an SP-only game, it's always been possible to shut these folks up by pointing out that what happens in the privacy of an SP game has exactly zero impact on anybody else.  If you want Feature X, get the mod for it and let everybody else enjoy the game as they see fit.  Now, this will no longer be possible.

Worse, there will now be an endless series of whines and rants and demands to "balance" this or that part or gameplay aspect because of perceived issues in MP games.  I see some have already started.  And any repeatable glitch that many might enjoy for humor or rollplay in SP games will have to be removed to avoid it being an exploit in MP games.  So those who don't care about MP and don't want things changed because they like them the way they are will be forced into the cookie-cutter version that the game ultimately settles into. 

I also foresee this forum, which has always been the most pleasant and polite community I've ever been part of, becoming rather less so.  Competition in the game will bleed over into the forum, especially as the player base divides into SP and MP factions who will not be able to agree on much.

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Theory:

Multiplayer will work a lot like single player, but with multiple inputs. Upon launch each player will control a single Kerbal on the same ship and any Kerbal in a pilot's seat will be able to operate the controls.

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7 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I honestly want Squad to leave multiplayer out just to infuriate y'all.

Cruel Curel Kraken

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

First, I have NEVER wanted MP in KSP.  I don't see it being a good thing for the game and am totally not thrilled that it will be in KSP2.  

It's been a constant theme in these forums since forever that some players have loudly criticized how other players play the game.  Same goes with loud demands for what some consider "realism" features, especially when voiced by folks who think everybody should play the way THEY want to play.  But with KSP being an SP-only game, it's always been possible to shut these folks up by pointing out that what happens in the privacy of an SP game has exactly zero impact on anybody else.  If you want Feature X, get the mod for it and let everybody else enjoy the game as they see fit.  Now, this will no longer be possible.

Worse, there will now be an endless series of whines and rants and demands to "balance" this or that part or gameplay aspect because of perceived issues in MP games.  I see some have already started.  And any repeatable glitch that many might enjoy for humor or rollplay in SP games will have to be removed to avoid it being an exploit in MP games.  So those who don't care about MP and don't want things changed because they like them the way they are will be forced into the cookie-cutter version that the game ultimately settles into. 

I also foresee this forum, which has always been the most pleasant and polite community I've ever been part of, becoming rather less so.  Competition in the game will bleed over into the forum, especially as the player base divides into SP and MP factions who will not be able to agree on much.

Mutliplayer could use a slightly different simulator system than single player perhaps. You make a good point

3 hours ago, magnemoe said:

I guess private servers, its an cooperative game not an competitive shooter. 
Obviously one is trolling as in taking out targets with probes, second is time acceleration,  the other fool is driving around in an rover collecting science while I have an fleet underway to Jool. 

I mean you could have ICBM wars or something where people try to take our targets while manually controlling an ICBM. 

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More overlapping topics have been merged.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Mutliplayer could use a slightly different simulator system than single player perhaps. You make a good point

That means the devs would have to support 2 different versions of the game.  That is so not happening.

MP means the end of ladder drives and K-drives.  It probably also means the end of creative part-clipping and EVERY SINGLE THING we've always done to push the game into unplanned directions.  No more "Weird Science" that every once in a while has a questionably useful purpose.,  All that will have to go away to keep the MP players on a level field.

KSP1,  however you perceive its many faults, at least had the virtue of being able to become all things to all people.  Thanks to MP, that will no longer be the case.  KSP2 will be, MUST be, 1 thing, like it or not, with all the really fun and funny stuff that are such a part of KSP culture eradicated root and branch as soon as discovered.

But this is a done deal--I can't stop it.  I accept it because I know there's nothing constant except change.  Still, I must hoist a flagon to all the great experimenters who pushed KSP to and beyond its limits, and all the Kerbals who sacrificed themselves in the pursuit of arcane knowledge.  We'll never see their like again.

Edited by Geschosskopf

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My guess it'll work the bare minimum way that works and hook to mods (either in game or on server) to handle more exotic MP schemes.

To me that means two linked systems

1) Focus bubble MP peer to peer - any control from here point can be a player, Warp is locked to the host. Craft on trajectory to leave bubble without incident gets to wrap ahead and get handed over to the server. 

2) Rails MP server - any craft (a grouping of control from here points) can be a player. Each one can warp within the paradox limits set be server. Dropping out of timewarp creates your own peer to peer bubble if you aren't in an active one. The server is always a peer to the bubble as a way of multi-threading the game generally.

Paradox handling on the server will be modable and that will "limit" how players can dance around the timeline.

20 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

MP means the end of ladder drives and K-drives.  It probably also means the end of creative part-clipping and EVERY SINGLE THING we've always done to push the game into unplanned directions.  No more "Weird Science" that every once in a while has a questionably useful purpose.,  All that will have to go away to keep the MP players on a level field.

Why does the field have to be level?

Fields are never level, they have drainage issues when they are.

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3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

First, I have NEVER wanted MP in KSP.  I don't see it being a good thing for the game and am totally not thrilled that it will be in KSP2.  

It's been a constant theme in these forums since forever that some players have loudly criticized how other players play the game.  Same goes with loud demands for what some consider "realism" features, especially when voiced by folks who think everybody should play the way THEY want to play.  But with KSP being an SP-only game, it's always been possible to shut these folks up by pointing out that what happens in the privacy of an SP game has exactly zero impact on anybody else.  If you want Feature X, get the mod for it and let everybody else enjoy the game as they see fit.  Now, this will no longer be possible.

Worse, there will now be an endless series of whines and rants and demands to "balance" this or that part or gameplay aspect because of perceived issues in MP games.  I see some have already started.  And any repeatable glitch that many might enjoy for humor or rollplay in SP games will have to be removed to avoid it being an exploit in MP games.  So those who don't care about MP and don't want things changed because they like them the way they are will be forced into the cookie-cutter version that the game ultimately settles into. 

I also foresee this forum, which has always been the most pleasant and polite community I've ever been part of, becoming rather less so.  Competition in the game will bleed over into the forum, especially as the player base divides into SP and MP factions who will not be able to agree on much.

None of that will actually be an issue, so long as KSP multiplayer has two things:

  1. Private Servers
  2. Mod Support

Multiplayer has worked perfectly fine in other creative sandbox games, like Minecraft and Space Engineers, notably because those games still allowed the players to form like minded groups where modding and community moderating allowed tailor fitted experiences, same as what you get with single player. 

If Star Theory were to try and force everyone onto public servers with no mod support, then I could see some of those issues arising. But that seems like such a bad way to setup the multiplayer that I don't imagine Star Theory would go that route. 

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Posted (edited)

Will two players control the same ship? Maybe it'll work like Flight Simulator X.

Edited by DanielCXT

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

It's been a constant theme in these forums since forever that some players have loudly criticized how other players play the game.  Same goes with loud demands for what some consider "realism" features, especially when voiced by folks who think everybody should play the way THEY want to play.  But with KSP being an SP-only game, it's always been possible to shut these folks up by pointing out that what happens in the privacy of an SP game has exactly zero impact on anybody else.  If you want Feature X, get the mod for it and let everybody else enjoy the game as they see fit.  Now, this will no longer be possible.

I am glad to see that you recognize that people want different things out of a video game. For example, I would like to be able to play collaboratively with my friends. I know this may seem strange to you, but if you don't like it, you can just not play MP. And, if something about MP changes your experience in a negative way, "get the mod for it and let everybody else enjoy the game as they see fit." After all, KSP 2 is supposed to be even more moddable than KSP, so you should have no issues.

6 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Worse, there will now be an endless series of whines and rants and demands to "balance" this or that part or gameplay aspect because of perceived issues in MP games.  I see some have already started.  And any repeatable glitch that many might enjoy for humor or rollplay in SP games will have to be removed to avoid it being an exploit in MP games.  So those who don't care about MP and don't want things changed because they like them the way they are will be forced into the cookie-cutter version that the game ultimately settles into.

Right, because no one ever argues about how KSP should be balanced despite being single player only. In fact, taking a look at the Overwatch subreddit ("Overwatch" is one of those violent shooter games that harms society - very toxic) you can clearly see that all of the posts are indeed nothing more than endless whines and rants about gameplay balance issues. I sure do feel sorry for all the Overwatch players who just wanted to have it their way...

Wait, what are these forum posts I found in just the first 2 pages of the suggestions subform? (why does that subforum even exist - no one should have to argue about balancing a single player game, right?)

Spoiler

 

6 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I also foresee this forum, which has always been the most pleasant and polite community I've ever been part of, becoming rather less so.  Competition in the game will bleed over into the forum, especially as the player base divides into SP and MP factions who will not be able to agree on much.

Indeed, Korbell Shooter Program is such a competitive game. I cannot wait for them to add voice chat so I can hear whiny 9-year olds on their XBox microphones boasting about how they headshot me from across the map, and complaining about how I have wallhacks.

Also, when games have single player and multiplayer modes that are nearly identical, they always divide into two fanatical factions. You would not believe the holy wars I have seen over whether the ammo display should be on the the right or in the middle, because it is different between single player and multiplayer. And oh lawdy, don't even get me started  on how ridiculously divisive the Minecraft fanbase is!

Wait, we are talking about Korbell Shooter Program, right?

4 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

KSP1,  however you perceive its many faults, at least had the virtue of being able to become all things to all people.  Thanks to MP, that will no longer be the case.  KSP2 will be, MUST be, 1 thing, like it or not, with all the really fun and funny stuff that are such a part of KSP culture eradicated root and branch as soon as discovered.

You know, I never noticed how right this is. I have never ever played a multiplayer game with an active and positive fanbase. All multiplayer games (especially those that are open to community modding and involvement like KSP) are dull, bland, and toxic. Multiplayer games, by their very nature, can obviously only accomodate one kind of player for some reason. Games like Minecraft, Team Fortress 2, and Garry's Mod are all awfully boring one-trick-ponies that are only played by mindless children.

Single player games can avoid this because - despite having player bases just as diverse as multiplayer games - no one ever is in the same game together! This solves all issues!

4 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

MP means the end of ladder drives and K-drives.  It probably also means the end of creative part-clipping and EVERY SINGLE THING we've always done to push the game into unplanned directions.  No more "Weird Science" that every once in a while has a questionably useful purpose.,  All that will have to go away to keep the MP players on a level field.

Ok, snarky sarcasm mode off.

This sounds like you are describing some kind of competitive first person shooter, which KSP certainly is not. Any kind of multiplayer will (almost certainly) be collaborative in nature, so there is nothing to "level." Everyone is on the same team, no one can be "over powered." Your rocket exploits glitches to operate? So what? Of course, we don't know how multiplayer will be implemented yet, but there are many, many ways to do it that will not turn it into a competitive griefing-fest like you seem to imagine it will be.

4 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

But this is a done deal--I can't stop it.  I accept it because I know there's nothing constant except change.  Still, I must hoist a flagon to all the great experimenters who pushed KSP to and beyond its limits, and all the Kerbals who sacrificed themselves in the pursuit of arcane knowledge.  We'll never see their like again.

Any multiplayer game is only as good as its community. You can either give up for some reason, or work to accept change, work to push the boundries, and work to accept outside points of view. Too often, internet communities get stuck in the mindset of "hey we're pretty good, let's keep it that way," and end up dying off because they don't produce anything new, and are unfriendly to "low quality" outsiders who don't think like them.

KSP 2 will have a great community, multiplayer or single player. I intend to be part of it, and you are always welcome too.

Edited by MDZhB

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6 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

First, I have NEVER wanted MP in KSP.  I don't see it being a good thing for the game and am totally not thrilled that it will be in KSP2. 

I look forward to it. Mostly because it will put the constant begging and "still no multiplayer" posts to rest.

On a more serious note:

  • I'll admit that there's a certain amount of glee and schadenfreude when it comes to issues like time-warping. MP supporters always claim that it's the easiest aspect of multi-player to solve, followed by five different solutions, each completely incompatible with any of the other ones.
  • Griefing seems to be a common theme in multi-player sandbox games. Astroneer seems to suffer from it really badly. Someone will have developed a game (solo) for weeks, invites someone over to join their world and sees it destroyed in a matter of minutes.

At the same time, I can look at the MS Flightsim community where multi-player has been a source of unbridled creativity in ways Microsoft probably never imagined but enabled by keeping the interface open. Navigation and flight management software would use the multi-player interface to exchange data with the game, traffic controllers could manage multiple simmers, and I've always enjoyed the round-the-world relay races between the various large flightsim websites. I'm sure the KSP community can come up with some creative ways to use an open multi-player interface!

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