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KSP 2 Multiplayer Discussion Thread


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<snip>

Second, why do some players hate on console? I play on playstation, and KSP is a great experience I'd reccomend to anyone interested in space. There is absolutly no justifiable reason to hate on console KSP the way some people do. Of course people are going to have different opinions, and thats awesome as long as we everyone is being nice. Just, try to be respectful, as a lot of people worked really hard on the console ports, and an even greater amount of people use that platform to enjoy the game.

On 8/28/2022 at 9:03 PM, Fullmetal Analyst said:

my guess is that we are basically just waiting for the dumb console port the whole time...

 

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6 hours ago, pandaman said:

How come?  MP in KSP1 was NEVER promised, merely mentioned at best as something in mind that they would like to do.

"Squad is committed [...]" 

https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-committed-to-multiplayer-career-and-sandbox-modes/ 

"We're working on it[...]" "Free update after 1.0".

"Squad has promised other long-requested features, including an official multiplayer mode"

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/kerbal-10-release-women/

 

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Then they stopped working on it and plans were scrubbed. We also didn't get gas planet 2 and probably a dozen of other features. I see no promise here. Only plans.

But how is that post from 7 years ago relevant now when a game that can most likely internally hold MP functionalities with ease is around the corner?

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<snip>

It doesn't even make sense to introduce multiplayer through a show and tell. They're literally just little sneak peeks. I think they're pretty wise to wait and present this all together as a complete thought so folks have an idea what things will really look like. It just leaves way less room for wild misunderstandings and screwy expectations. Realistically I don't see that happening sooner than a couple months before release when everything is dialed in and ready for primetime. So like November at the absolute earliest? If not Feb? 

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<snip>

On 9/7/2022 at 6:40 AM, Turtlegirl1209 said:

Second, why do some players hate on console? I play on playstation, and KSP is a great experience I'd reccomend to anyone interested in space.

My only guess is that they see it as stealing development efforts away from the PC version; that if there were no console version, 100% of the studio's resources would go into making the PC version even better. I don't think I buy that argument, though. Nowadays, don't consoles pretty much have parity with PCs? In other words, isn't porting between console and PC like a thousand times easier than it used to be a decade or two ago?

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3 hours ago, Turtlegirl1209 said:

Second, why do some players hate on console? I play on playstation, and KSP is a great experience I'd reccomend to anyone interested in space. There is absolutly no justifiable reason to hate on console KSP the way some people do. Of course people are going to have different opinions, and thats awesome as long as we everyone is being nice. Just, try to be respectful, as a lot of people worked really hard on the console ports, and an even greater amount of people use that platform to enjoy the game.

It's not hating on consoles, it's a matter of fact that consoles are less capable, and I'm not talking about performance, but input methods and control over your game.

I don't want the developing target being the less capable machine. To make an easy example, I want mods, even if they don't work on consoles, and I'm not ok with giving up more complex mods to allow for console-friendly modding (which usually means only assets and no scripts or code).

A lot of people make a big deal out of DRM, to me that isn't even relevant in front of the same thing happening to hardware, to me consoles are like the worst and most invasive of DRMs.

Having 2 consoles and a PC at home means having 3 PCs, only because some publishers only want to publish their games on their specific flavor of locked-down PC.

Is like having to own a different TV for Disney content because Disney onlly release their things on their branded TVs.

 

I get that they're easier to use, really, bigger audience, and everything, really, but I just don't want my game to be designed to be worse to accommodate for consoles. Let them make the game fully working for PC and then have the publisher giving the code to some third party to cut out the things that Sony and Microsoft don't want on their machines.

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If a port is good, there should be no problem with input as consoles support mouse and keyboard setups. It's a matter if having two input modes in the game. Console players know well they won't see much of a modding scene, except for an official repository if it exists.

Besides, console port is supposed to be released after PC edition, and also, third party companies are a lottery when it comes to the quality of the port. (The initial KSP console edition comes to mind)

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3 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

"Squad is committed [...]" 

https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-committed-to-multiplayer-career-and-sandbox-modes/ 

"We're working on it[...]" "Free update after 1.0".

"Squad has promised other long-requested features, including an official multiplayer mode"

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/kerbal-10-release-women/

 

With respect...

 'Working on it' and 'planned'  is not a promise that they can actually deliver, whatever their wishes or intentions may have been.  It is exactly what it says, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't doubt for a minute that they would have liked to get MP working and included, but for whatever reasons they didn't.

I plan or work on lots of things that end up not working  or proving practical.  

 

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3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Then they stopped working on it and plans were scrubbed. We also didn't get gas planet 2 and probably a dozen of other features. I see no promise here. Only plans.

But how is that post from 7 years ago relevant now when a game that can most likely internally hold MP functionalities with ease is around the corner?

 

16 minutes ago, pandaman said:

With respect...

 'Working on it' and 'planned'  is not a promise that they can actually deliver, whatever their wishes or intentions may have been.  It is exactly what it says, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't doubt for a minute that they would have liked to get MP working and included, but for whatever reasons they didn't.

I plan or work on lots of things that end up not working  or proving practical.  

 

I mean, if we dismiss words like that, why are we even expecting a game? They literally didn't say "we promise to deliver KSP2", which it is said in one of my linked articles for KSP1.

They mentioned the word "committed" in  "committed to bring Multiplayer as a free post 1.0 update", they answered community members telling them it was coming, planned, and lastly, I challenge you to find any post that says "multiplayer for KSP1 has been cancelled".

Found this one to add to the list too:

https://www.facebook.com/kerbalspaceprogram/posts/pfbid02XaN4WXrPbKnYAJmMw6Lx3zNDMEAYxwJwu1B8qhB8PNgnYUyjpmek8wWFyLTtqWDwl?comment_id=978554832163741&reply_comment_id=978557518830139&__cft__[0]=AZVwiaMTGEh_cezOVANZ1-TfC7oeTZY4SWP6Rfi_rsdsenCI_J-p8VswhssfvtsvQanhtzno8KiH3YIjerixjBk9xHtnSmKvzfTqOgUvcda1tsXK41oXa25Me8BlS2Z4TmxTmBpiaSe_2Rsl9-LZqPsH&__tn__=R]-R

Multiplayer was a last resource promise to give a boost to 1.0 sales. It never arrived, it was never cancelled either, just swept under the rug if anything.

Like really, and I'm repeating myself, at that point we really shouldn't be here, or listening to any marketing if nothing they can ever say is ever to be considered as "promised".

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37 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Like really, and I'm repeating myself, at that point we really shouldn't be here, or listening to any marketing if nothing they can ever say is ever to be considered as "promised".

If you decide to ignore marketing because it isn’t a concrete demonstration or promise of features, then that is your choice. For me, I’ve been aware that any or all planned features of KSP 2 could be tossed out the window, and I still follow development. Why? Because even though it isn’t a perfectly sound promise of features, it gives me a vague idea of what the game will be like, probably. And what I think the game will be like is looking pretty good, so I’m continuing to follow development to slowly confirm my suspicions. Even though colonies completely could be purely cosmetic parts upon final release, I have a reasonable guess that they’ll have at least some function, and I’m fine with that even though I’m not sure. 
 

If all the information possible to release about KSP 2 was released tomorrow, it would provide enough to make concrete beliefs about exactly what KSP 2 will be. But I would rather know that I am only receiving a view of a potential game that could change, than believe that I am seeing finalized promises and be unaware that they could change. 

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41 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

 

Like really, and I'm repeating myself, at that point we really shouldn't be here, or listening to any marketing if nothing they can ever say is ever to be considered as "promised

No product, of any type, however often it may be 'promised' is ever guaranteed to actually get released until it hits the shelves.

Sometimes stuff just 'goes wrong', maybe beyond the makers control, and sometimes the maker realises that they can't make it work or it just isn't good enough, so pulls the plug.

I don't disagree that an 'Oops sorry, but we can't deliver after all' would have been nice, but can you imagine how many pitchforks with 'But you PROMISED ' notes attached would be flying around.  And for all we know they could have been trying to get it to work until the end.

Disappointing I know, but that's life, poo emojis happen.

@PDCWolf have you ever made a promise or commitment that you later discover you can't  fulfill?  It sucks, for all parties.

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So it was planned in 2015. (Only PR manager said the word "commited") Then HarvesteR left in 2016, and around that time, some other team members, so priorities regarding feature development probably changed. A year after the franchise was bought by T2, and assuming they requested development of KSP2 not long after transaction (we have reliable source confirming that the game was in development in December 2017), that moved the idea for multiplayer to the sequel.

Not to mention, all the features that appeared since 2015 were more important than MP.

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1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Like really, and I'm repeating myself, at that point we really shouldn't be here, or listening to any marketing if nothing they can ever say is ever to be considered as "promised".

I dunno what to tell you. If you're mad that marketing and the finished product can differ by a lot sometimes, I have bad news for you about the entire history of marketing

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1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

To be frank, I don't "expect" KSP2 in that way.

I mean, in the way that if they never come out with the game I won't be all "but you PROMISED" about it years later.

That's why I asked "why". If you lurk/post here on KSP2 hype/feature/marketing threads without really expecting anything, why bother? I understand stoicism, I don't understand willfuly wasting one's time when you aren't taking any part of the information releases as holding any value.

1 hour ago, t_v said:

Because even though it isn’t a perfectly sound promise of features

Then what is? Saying a feature is coming apparently isn't, showing it isn't either, giving a timeframe for it ("post 1.0 update") isn't either.

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Not to mention, all the features that appeared since 2015 were more important than MP.

That's subjective at best, specially since they used MP coming as the biggest sales bait on linked public articles and their social medias.

1 hour ago, pandaman said:

No product, of any type, however often it may be 'promised' is ever guaranteed to actually get released until it hits the shelves.

Doesn't detract from the fact that I can still tell people to not trust those promises based on the dev/studio history of not being able to keep them. Even if there's no legal accountability, there's public accountability.

1 hour ago, pandaman said:

I don't disagree that an 'Oops sorry, but we can't deliver after all' would have been nice, but can you imagine how many pitchforks with 'But you PROMISED ' notes attached would be flying around. 

As many as they should, specially since it was used as sales bait, this is exactly why 10 years later we've still got people asking for the feature, and why the sequel was announced with a big "MULTIPLAYER AT LAUNCH" attached on social media posts and other publications. My only goal here is telling people to not believe that based on their history of using MP as bait and then silently failing to deliver.

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On 9/1/2022 at 11:10 PM, razark said:

So what does knowing more than the devs have already said gain you?  What do you get out of knowing details about a work in progress that is very likely to change before you ever get a chance to interact with?

I mean I guess the argument would go that if they just constantly posted updates about how they were dealing with every little detail, basically like a fully-open design process, that we could look over their shoulder the whole time and say "Yes do this!" and "No do it like that". Except we as observers would have no actual interaction with game or what was feasible or what the real consequences of changing this or that would be or how much time it would take. Honestly that kind of design by a disembodied committee of backseat drivers sounds like an absolute nightmare, and would be very unlikely to produce anything like a cohesive, fully-considered design in any amount of time. 

Like I get that people have their own hopes about what the game will be. I certainly have them. But Im not the one making the game. I have no idea what would actually work. Just let the people who have invested several years of their lives into making this thing do their jobs. When it comes out Im positive we'll all have a huge amount of feedback and maybe around the edges things like balance and pacing and QOL can be slowly patched and perfected and even a few big ideas might end up in future expansions. But if they've decided that say LS is just a fully abstracted property and there's no separate resource then me saying at this point, 6 months before release, "Oh just totally overhaul and rebalance this entire system" isn't really going to be feasible or helpful. When the game actually comes out and we all finally get to dig in and see how progression and pacing and harvesting resources and all that really plays out, then we can sit back and say "Oh you should really have this part earlier in the tech tree" or "Man this science exploit is creating a huge amount of grind" or "we really need XYZ UI tool to manage supply routes more easily." Maybe they take that advice, or maybe they prefer it their way, or maybe it reminds them of some other solution. Either way they're probably not going to completely uproot and rethink whole systems just because we, as a well-intentioned but utterly unqualified observers, wish it would be.
 

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Doesn't detract from the fact that I can still tell people to not trust those promises based on the dev/studio history of not being able to keep them. Even if there's no legal accountability, there's public accountability.

Except it's not the same studio. It's not the same devs. 

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1 hour ago, Vl3d said:
1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Not to mention, all the features that appeared since 2015 were more important than MP.

Strongly disagree.

So you'd sacrifice all the performance & bug fixes and features of KSP 1.0+ for the sake of having a feature a fraction of the playerbase would use?

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48 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

That's why I asked "why". If you lurk/post here on KSP2 hype/feature/marketing threads without really expecting anything, why bother? I understand stoicism, I don't understand willfuly wasting one's time when you aren't taking any part of the information releases as holding any value.

2 hours ago, t_v said:

Because even though it isn’t a perfectly sound promise of features

Then what is? Saying a feature is coming apparently isn't, showing it isn't either, giving a timeframe for it ("post 1.0 update") isn't either.

Things aren’t binary. Even though these features aren’t an unbreakable promise, they still hold value and aren’t completely invalidated. If I sat on a flimsy chair that creaked and groaned, I would say that that chair is probably not going to break. A sturdier chair would give me a better sense of confidence but it still could break for some very improbable reason. Just because the developers can’t be 110% trusted to fulfill their statements doesn’t mean that they should only be 5% trusted. And you keep bringing up Squad’s history but remember, KSP 2 is under new management, and both development and marketing should be viewed neutrally. 

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22 minutes ago, t_v said:

And you keep bringing up Squad’s history but remember, KSP 2 is under new management, and both development and marketing should be viewed neutrally. 

And not only that but even Star Theory jumped out with an initial launch date that was somewhere between overly optimistic and downright implausible. I think we can really only base things on how Intercept has handled things since, keeping in mind global pandemics and all. 

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2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

If you lurk/post here on KSP2 hype/feature/marketing threads without really expecting anything, why bother?

Because "it's pretty likely this will be in the game" is enough for me.

Because the amount they have told us over the course of the time they've told it to us is enough for me.

Also, I enjoy the bulk of the conversations I read and/or participate in.

Those are pretty much why I hang out in all the places I hang out on the Internet. And even in real life. I find positives in it and those positives outweigh the negatives.

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

they used MP coming as the biggest sales bait

Here's some advice for you: Never ever EVER buy something because someone promised you it would have a feature some day. Buy something because you want it enough the way it is NOW to pay for it. You will spend your life far less disappointed.

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On 9/7/2022 at 6:40 AM, Turtlegirl1209 said:

I really dislike this.

first off, whats with people naming their threads like its official info? you can see the poster and read the content so its really not a big deal but it is kinda frustrating. All in all, it is just a very minor annoyance though.

Second, why do some players hate on console? I play on playstation, and KSP is a great experience I'd reccomend to anyone interested in space. There is absolutly no justifiable reason to hate on console KSP the way some people do. Of course people are going to have different opinions, and thats awesome as long as we everyone is being nice. Just, try to be respectful, as a lot of people worked really hard on the console ports, and an even greater amount of people use that platform to enjoy the game.

 

<snip>

second, i dont hate consoles, they can exist as long as the pc version wont suffer from having to be compatible with a way inferior type of PC aswell, consoles are just weaker and can process less game logic, yet they have to make the same game for both console and pc, are you beginning to understand the problem here?

the console port is also massively delaying the release of the game for pc players since you cant just make a game for pc and then port it 1:1 to console, you have to change alot of the game for it to run properly on a console


the best example for this are the dark souls games
because consoles have limited amount of buttons, they made a genius system where you have 1 active item slot, and you have to switch through 10 different items to select and use the one you want, instead of giving pc players the ability to just bind every item to a number key like other games - are you still wondering why pc players hate console?

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<snip>

13 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

the console port is also massively delaying the release of the game

I think there's a rule against conspiracy theories.

Not only there's no proof of what you claim, but it's actively disproven by the fact that the console port release is going to arrive later than the PC one.

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44 minutes ago, Master39 said:

I think there's a rule against conspiracy theories.

its not a conspiracy theory, its just my guess based on what they shared - or more likely not shared in this case

it shouldnt be hard for them to prove me wrong, provided that im actually wrong at this

however im 90% sure that this entire holdup is just because of console related stuff - they didnt want to release console version and pc version together at first - they changed studio now they want to release both at same time - bang! +4 years of development time!!

i really have no other explanation for adding this much dev time to a finished game - please share your theories if you have any

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