Vegatoxi

Necessary sacrifice or just money fraud...?

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So, you take our money for KSP
Take our money for KSP DLC's
Announce texture revamp for Mun and Duna few days ago.

And now... you announce KSP 2 which literally turn all of this into useless dust just because obviously KSP will be abandoned after KSP 2 will be released.

So what a sense of current KSP anouncements?
And i say even more - what sense of KSP in face of KSP 2 announce?
You just wanna take a little more money for already dead game?

Looks like fraud.:KOh:

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For starters, Squad confirmed that they will continue to release updates for KSP 1, so it won't be turned into "useless dust."

They're literally building a new game from the ground up to implement the newest technologies and allow for gameplay mechanics that were not possible with the present game. The amount of time and money that would be needed to shift the current game over to these new technologies, with less possibility for profit from those updates, made it necessary to release a sequel. Let's just hope they make a worthy sequel, rather than complaining that they're making a sequel at all. 

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Wow you did not read the announcement post, did you?

Yadda Yadda old game is fine, you can keep it, it is and will be taken care of, you are not forced to get new one if you don't want it.

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Posted (edited)

It's not fraud, doesn't fit the definition of fraud, and I am an Accountant. Fraud would be if they announced KSP2 but it did not exist as product, but took pre-orders anyway.  It's a company wanting to make use of their IP, so I see nothing wrong with that.  So this is really bad question.

KSP has been in development for nine years, which is very long development cycle that isn't owed to the players. The IP has changed hands to a new company on the tail end of KSP's development cycle. Obviously the purchaser wants to have a return on their investment and build good faith with community, so they didn't immediately cancel all post launch support after acquisition.

It's more than likely that Take Two purchase the title for the indie portfolio and approved a sequel because its a very low risk and fills a very tight niche in the gaming market. It's easy money for them.

Even then what is there to be done with KSP? It has approached the limits on what is feasible with the game's structure and architecture, they are still developing the game of course, but no company will develop a game forever. 

Edited by TheRag

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5 minutes ago, Kerenatus said:

don't embarrass yourself

 

1 minute ago, TheRag said:

It's not fraud, doesn't fit the definition of fraud, and I am an Accountant. Fraud would be if they announced KSP2 but it did not exist as product, but took pre-orders anyway.  It's a company wanting to make use of their IP, so I see nothing wrong with that.  So this is really bad question.

KSP has been in development for nine years, which is very long development cycle that isn't owed to the players. The IP has changed hands to a new company on the tail end of KSP's development cycle. Obviously the purchaser wants to have a return on their investment and build good faith with community, so they didn't immediately cancel all post launch support after acquisition.

It's more than likely that Take Two purchase the title for the indie portfolio and approved a sequel because its a very low risk and fills a very tight niche in the gaming market. It's easy money for them.

Even then what is there to be done with KSP it has approached the limits on what is feasible with the game's structure and architecture, they are still developing the game of course, but no company will develop a game forever. 

Nuff said

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5 minutes ago, TheRag said:

It's not fraud, doesn't fit the definition of fraud, and I am an Accountant. Fraud would be if they announced KSP2 but it did not exist as product, but took pre-orders anyway.  It's a company wanting to make use of their IP, so I see nothing wrong with that.  So this is really bad question.

KSP has been in development for nine years, which is very long development cycle that isn't owed to the players. The IP has changed hands to a new company on the tail end of KSP's development cycle. Obviously the purchaser wants to have a return on their investment and build good faith with community, so they didn't immediately cancel all post launch support after acquisition.

It's more than likely that Take Two purchase the title for the indie portfolio and approved a sequel because its a very low risk and fills a very tight niche in the gaming market. It's easy money for them.

Even then what is there to be done with KSP it has approached the limits on what is feasible with the game's structure and architecture, they are still developing the game of course, but no company will develop a game forever. 

And what's problem to make use of KSP through DLC's?

 

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Posted (edited)

The teams for KSP and KSP2 are different. And sure, you'll have people helping the KSP2 team, but it's not gonna be abandoned. KSP will still get updates and support.

The game has also been out since 2011. That's 8 years before it got a sequel, and only a couple optional DLCs. Technical debt has built up, and now they're remaking the game with brand new code. I expect it to look and run better than stock KSP now, with the features of a moderately modded game - that's balanced with stock - and doesn't conflict with each other, as a modded game may. In short, I wouldn't say this is anywhere close of being a fraud, and I'm quite excited for it.

The game is coming out in like 8 months or so anyway, if the spring release holds true, so that's plenty more time for new (and older players who put it on the backburner) players to enjoy the current game before the sequel comes around.

Edited by Spaceception

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Vegatoxi said:

And what's problem to make use of KSP through DLC's?

1. Total package cost. Players are not going to buy all the DLC of a game unless it is heavily discounted. Paradox is notorious for having products with hundreds of dollars of DLC, so many people buy the DLC when heavily discounted during sales. Right now if you want the complete version of KSP, you will need Making History and Breaking Ground in order to do so.

2. Product Cycle, Every product has a cycle it goes through. Development, Growth, Maturity, Decline, and Termination. KSP is well past its maturity point, new DLC doesn't generate new sales in comparison to a new game release that is successful.

3. Opportunity Cost, Private Division cannot afford to just keep tacking on KSP DLCs because the market will realize this and try to out-compete them. With KSP2 it shows that KSP is still an active force in the market and pushes the new standard of competition for space management games, the opportunity of cost of just solely developing KSP is just too high.

4. Diversification, by having multiple titles it helps reduce concentration risk on a investment. Before KSP2 the entirety of the investment was riding on KSP DLCs and post launch support of the game. Now with a new title, the developers can branch away from support roles to actual developing and creative roles.

This doesn't mean KSP2 will be a success, but there are multiple material reasons that necessitate and justify KSP2's development and primacy over KSP1. 

Edited by TheRag

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Posted (edited)
On 8/20/2019 at 4:23 PM, Vegatoxi said:

And what's the problem to make use of KSP through DLC's?

 

On 8/20/2019 at 4:16 PM, TheRag said:

Even then what is there to be done with KSP? It has approached the limits on what is feasible with the game's structure

 

You literary quoted the answere

Edited by KerbolExplorer
Corrected the quote

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Did I miss the memo that games just stop being fun when sequels come out?

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15 minutes ago, KerbolExplorer said:

You literary quoted the answere

DLCs aren't perpetual money machines, they cost time, resources, and manpower to create, promote, and maintain. Think again when I mean KSP reached its limit in a business sense. What can KSP do better that a new sequel cannot? Already for the complete version of KSP is $70 while KSP2 will be $60 and has a much expanded scope compared to KSP1. Any new DLC for KSP1 makes KSP2 more attractive from a consumer standpoint because hopefully those DLC concepts and features are already integrated into the base game on top of the new features.

Unless KSP1 has sometype of innate advantage that cannot be replicated, there's really nothing but consumer sentiment,  stopping KSP2.

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KSP 1 isn't going to be magically deleted when KSP2 releases.  It should be playable for many years to come, regardless of whether Squad continue to support it.  At the same time, KSP2 has the chance to rebuild from the ground up, using an updated engine to hopefully address many of the central problems inherent to KSP1, and removing the need for some of the shortcuts and workarounds implemented to fix them.  KSP's been playable for nearly 8 years, four of them out of Early Access.  That is a really solid lifespan for a game, made better with years of support and additional development coming after the initial release.  But a lot has changed over 8 years, and I'm excited to see what a new version of KSP can be, built from the ground up to take advantage of that.

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7 minutes ago, Teek said:

KSP 1 isn't going to be magically deleted when KSP2 releases.  It should be playable for many years to come, regardless of whether Squad continue to support it.  At the same time, KSP2 has the chance to rebuild from the ground up, using an updated engine to hopefully address many of the central problems inherent to KSP1, and removing the need for some of the shortcuts and workarounds implemented to fix them.  KSP's been playable for nearly 8 years, four of them out of Early Access.  That is a really solid lifespan for a game, made better with years of support and additional development coming after the initial release.  But a lot has changed over 8 years, and I'm excited to see what a new version of KSP can be, built from the ground up to take advantage of that.

And what a sense to play it when KSP 2 have all better things???

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9 minutes ago, Vegatoxi said:

And what a sense to play it when KSP 2 have all better things???

Sure, let's never do any sequels for any games, cause if the sequel is better, people who paid for the first game will not have a reason to play it. OR AT LEAST LET'S MAKE SURE THE SEQUEL IS WORSE THAN ORIGINAL.

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1 hour ago, Vegatoxi said:

And what's problem to make use of KSP through DLC's?

 

The program is buggy, and this is a clean slate approach to fixing it.  New team, none of the code rot from the existing, they are building it from the ground up.  If they can make it look anything at ALL like that trailer (I get the comic scripted parts aren't gonna happen) it'll be worth it entirely.

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7 minutes ago, Vegatoxi said:

And what a sense to play it when KSP 2 have all better things???

Some people are nostalgic

Some people will hate/dislike it no matter what, and stick to the original

Some people will want to go back to a simpler game/prefer the original

 

There's overlap in this, but really, people will continue playing the game, and the devs will continue supporting it for the foreseeable future. Even if I end up preferring the 2nd one, I can see myself going back to play the 1st one. Having a sequel doesn't mean the first one is now dead. There are countless sequels for games out there, and many people have preferred the original ones to the newer ones, why will KSP be any different?

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Guys, stop feeding it.  

To the OP:  If this is not a troll, as it appears to be, I suggest that you please go back and edit your post and stop accusing people of a very serious crime (fraud) as your first conclusion to a sequel for KSP.  It is my understanding that 1) Squad isn't even working on it, and 2) KSP 1 will still be supported by Squad for the foreseeable future.  I would also add an apology to your post.

It is a crime (at least here in the United States) to falsely accuse someone of a crime.  If TakeTwo or Squad were so inclined they could sue you for, among other things, libel.

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On the one hand, please avoid posting personal feelings guised as accusations of misconduct. On the other hand, please avoid attacking people expressing their feelings about the game, no matter how much you might disagree. 

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9 minutes ago, jamqdlaty said:

Sure, let's never do any sequels for any games, cause if the sequel is better, people who paid for the first game will not have a reason to play it. OR AT LEAST LET'S MAKE SURE THE SEQUEL IS WORSE THAN ORIGINAL.

Games are different.

For some games is better to provide continues support for current game than release new game ever few eyars like CoD, BF, etc.

9 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Some people are nostalgic

Some people will hate/dislike it no matter what, and stick to the original

Some people will want to go back to a simpler game/prefer the original

 

There's overlap in this, but really, people will continue playing the game, and the devs will continue supporting it for the foreseeable future. Even if I end up preferring the 2nd one, I can see myself going back to play the 1st one. Having a sequel doesn't mean the first one is now dead. There are countless sequels for games out there, and many people have preferred the original ones to the newer ones, why will KSP be any different?

"some people" =/= all people.

~100 nostalgic players from 100,000 player base not worth time and money to support old product.

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Posted (edited)

Isn't it being supported for 8 years already?..

Edited by kerbiloid

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Vegatoxi said:

For some games is better to provide continues support for current game than release new game ever few eyars like CoD, BF, etc.

Like others have said, the game has deep issues that would be hard to fix, and improvements many players have wanted for a while. And they did do continuous support for this game, 8 years of it, and they aren't stopping. That's not "every few years" That's one new game almost a decade after the first.

11 minutes ago, Vegatoxi said:

~100 nostalgic players from 100,000 player base not worth time and money to support old product.

Really? You think only a 100 people will want to continue playing the original? Out of a 100k player base, I'm willing to bet that number is gonna be noticeably higher, and there's other reasons besides nostalgia that I mentioned.

Edited by Spaceception

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That logic backed by entitlement by OP. Like KSP comes out with a new version every year like all the AAA games. I've been playing since 2014 off a sale price, how spoiled and entitled do I need to be to attack a company for daring to bring out a new game after 5+ years.

I'm still paying KSP 1.3.1 and it works just fine, no one is forcing me to update every other week to follow Squads insane update schedule.. Over 10K hours into this game and I'm glad to spend money on it if it means an improved game engine and a fresh start. $40 is chump-change in comparison.

As for the DLC, it's not even required to play the game, so what are we talking about?

 

For years of fun, you are really moaning about paying another $30-40 for new and improved developments on one of the cheapest games out there for the amount of fun you get in return? Just WOW!


 

 

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No this is not fraud. I can understand people feeling suspicious considering the behaviour of some game makers but IMHO this is completely legit. Private Division have done a lot to extend KSP for which ye olde backers like me were never even charged, living up to the promises made by Squad and they have given everyone value for money.

The time has come, if we want KSP to live and grow, when we have to pony up to make it possible. 

In the end KSP is about more than money, its about Kerbals... in space...! ...? 

 

 

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