Forget the hype: in a bubble, the KSP 2 cinematic is one of the best game trailers in half a decade

[Chilkoot]

Even if you hate KSP, it's fair to say that the announcement cinematic is one of the best teaser-length game cinematics we've seen in a number of years and is literally worthy of study by film and animation students.   It's handily on par with some of Blizzard's earlier works as a cinematic effort.

Direction and pacing is spot on.  Every sequence is tied perfectly together and to the soundtrack to give us that glimpse of a story and the emotional roller-coaster that goes with it.

Cinematography is *superb*.  Angles, framing, camera pan and cuts are all planned and executed brilliantly.  Better Call Saul, look out!

The cinematic piques interest, is true not only to the Kerbal mentality but also to the in-game mechanics and parts as confirmed by the developer.  This is not BS - we're going to be playing what we see (at lower fidelity obviously).

We've been so tied up in the excitement of the announcement, we've not taken a moment to recognize the real accomplishment of this short cinematic.  Hell, I'm reminded of some of the old high-budget Star Trek movie teasers of yesteryear.

The upshot here is that the cinematic is not only 100% Kerbal, it's 100% quality.  If this was produced under the auspices of the new publisher/developer, it's a strong indicator that the game is in very good hands, indeed.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Chilkoot

[Atlessa]

Word.

[The Aziz]

There were only few trailers that gave me goosebumps, this is one of them.

[Guest]

It would be perfect, had it not been for the "lolsokerbal" moments with everything collapsing and exploding. Would have worked much better with a pure "triumphant explorers" theme.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

It would be perfect, had it not been for the "lolsokerbal" moments with everything collapsing and exploding. Would have worked much better with a pure "triumphant explorers" theme.

Strong disagree. KSP is about trying stuff that just possibly might work, discovering it doesn't, and repeating until it does. The video got that across beautifully as the kerbals worked their way up from bottle rockets to interstellar colonies -- with stuff still blowing up until it didn't.

I really do not sympathise with this idea of sanitising away the failures any more than the idea that it ought to be a hardcore space sim.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

Yeah, because a colony that looks like it houses hundreds of Kerbals collapsing and killing them all is oh so funny. It's not "stuff blowing up until it didn't". The colony collapse was the very last scene.

The problem is not failures, but gratitious comedy and things falling apart for no reason. No, things constantly blowing up has no place in a KSP trailer, because it's not the point of the game. KSP is about exploration, not explosions. KSP should really ditch the "LOL explosions" image once and for all. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Yeah, because a colony that looks like it houses hundreds of Kerbals collapsing and killing them all is oh so funny. It's not "stuff blowing up until it didn't". The colony collapse was the very last scene.

The problem is not failures, but gratitious comedy and things falling apart for no reason. No, things constantly blowing up has no place in a KSP trailer, because it's not the point of the game. KSP is about exploration, not explosions. KSP should really ditch the "LOL explosions" image once and for all. 

As I said, I strongly disagree. It wouldn't be KSP without gratuitous comedy and things falling apart.

What next, demanding that they change Courage and Stupidity to... I dunno, Coordination and Intelligence? Get rid of Jeb's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts?

Edited September 1, 2019 by Guest

[Goody1981]

3 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

Even if you hate KSP, it's fair to say that the announcement cinematic is one of the best teaser-length game cinematics we've seen in a number of years and is literally worthy of study by film and animation students.   It's handily on par with some of Blizzard's earlier works as a cinematic effort.

Direction and pacing is spot on.  Every sequence is tied perfectly together and to the soundtrack to give us that glimpse of a story and the emotional roller-coaster that goes with it.

Cinematography is *superb*.  Angles, framing, camera pan and cuts are all planned and executed brilliantly.  Better Call Saul, look out!

The cinematic piques interest, is true not only to the Kerbal mentality but also to the in-game mechanics and parts as confirmed by the developer.  This is not BS - we're going to be playing what we see (at lower fidelity obviously).

We've been so tied up in the excitement of the announcement, we've not taken a moment to recognize the real accomplishment of this short cinematic.  Hell, I'm reminded of some of the old high-budget Star Trek movie teasers of yesteryear.

The upshot here is that the cinematic is not only 100% Kerbal, it's 100% quality.  If this was produced under the auspices of the new publisher/developer, it's a strong indicator that the game is in very good hands, indeed.

Have you seen the original?

[Xd the great]

35 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Yeah, because a colony that looks like it houses hundreds of Kerbals collapsing and killing them all is oh so funny. It's not "stuff blowing up until it didn't". The colony collapse was the very last scene.

The problem is not failures, but gratitious comedy and things falling apart for no reason. No, things constantly blowing up has no place in a KSP trailer, because it's not the point of the game. KSP is about exploration, not explosions. KSP should really ditch the "LOL explosions" image once and for all. 

Why ditch the explosions?

The kerbal slipped. The rocket landing was too heavy. 

Perhaps you should look at Danny2462's videos.

[4472TJ]

I agree it is the most beautiful animation I've Ever seen, especially when we have the handheld kind of feel whilst inside the command pod in orbit around the Mün (?). That was the most stunning part. And the reflections are spot on, as in I find in some games everything is super reflective (the GTA6 trailer is an example of this) but it was all spot on thank you Star theory for this! 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Brikoleur said:

As I said, I strongly disagree. It wouldn't be KSP without gratuitous comedy and things falling apart.

What next, demanding that they change Courage and Stupidity to... I dunno, Coordination and Intelligence? Get rid of Jeb's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts?

Yes, exactly. Get rid of stupidity and replace it with more sensible stats. Courage can stay, astronauts are brave and test pilots even more so. None of them are stupid. Neither are Kerbals. They are pretty good engineers, and the junkyard aesthetic is long gone by now (it had its heyday in very early days), replaced by much more realistic artwork. And yes, it would very much be KSP if we just cut the lolsokerbal parts. It would be a better KSP, a serious exploration game where you learn about real challenges and physics of space exploration, while overcoming those challenges by making creative (but backed by solid engineering) use of physics. The goal is to fulfull the humanity's (and Kerbalkind's) dream to expand to other planets and, in KSP2, stars, and it's already a fun ride without gratitious slapstick comedy.

The trailer does a pretty good job at the exploration part, but it still features way too much random explosions. When things explode, it should be something going wrong that can be investigated and fixed. Real rockets didn't always work, either, and you get an occasional kaboom. But it's not parts falling off spaceships, or whole colonies collapsing (especially since in the latter case, something that big would represent hours of gameplay...).

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Yeah, because a colony that looks like it houses hundreds of Kerbals collapsing and killing them all is oh so funny. It's not "stuff blowing up until it didn't".

This colony building was empty on that moment, due to mass evacuation caused by a radioactive gas leakage from the molten salt reactor during its refuelling with homemade fission fuel, I guess.
Also Kerbals wear spacesuits because they know what to expect from other Kerbals.

But, agreed, they should do that either more obvious, or less dramatic.

1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Get rid of stupidity and replace it with more sensible stats.

Absolutely disagreed.
Values like IQ and other "intellectual level" consider zero intellect as default. Like they propagate a zero-brain normality.

"Stupidity" treats perfect intellect as a norm, and it is a measure of how much intellect does one need more to become intellectually perfect again.

Also, try to estimate someone's intellect objectively. Various silly IQ tests showing nothing.
While you can measure someone's stupidity pretty easily. Say has put fingers in an outlet - 10 points of stupidity, and so on.
The intellect you estimate from words, the stupidity — from deeds.

Stupidity is just the honest way to say the bare truth.

Can't find this meme in English.

Spoiler

Caption is: "Stupidity and Courage")

Like some movie said: "The most stupid things are always done with a serious face".

Edited September 1, 2019 by kerbiloid

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Yes, exactly. Get rid of stupidity and replace it with more sensible stats. Courage can stay, astronauts are brave and test pilots even more so. None of them are stupid. Neither are Kerbals. They are pretty good engineers, and the junkyard aesthetic is long gone by now (it had its heyday in very early days), replaced by much more realistic artwork. And yes, it would very much be KSP if we just cut the lolsokerbal parts. It would be a better KSP, a serious exploration game where you learn about real challenges and physics of space exploration, while overcoming those challenges by making creative (but backed by solid engineering) use of physics. The goal is to fulfull the humanity's (and Kerbalkind's) dream to expand to other planets and, in KSP2, stars, and it's already a fun ride without gratitious slapstick comedy.

No fun allowed, eh?

Anyway I think this discussion has run its course -- I have mad respect for the dedication and patience of you simulation enthusiasts, but we do see the goals of KSP in an irreconcilably different way. So we will just have to note that we disagree and move on to other topics. With the moddability of KSP I'm quite sure you lot will be able to make a Realism Overhaul that makes it as realistic and as serious as you coiuld possibly desire, so with any luck all of us will end up happy.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Guest

[nikokespprfan]

37 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

Anyway I think this discussion has run its course

exactly, under the hood, the kerbals aren't idiots. (I mean, they ditched the space-suit-mitts policies, which is the biggest technological improvement in mission succes of the decade.). However on the other hand, the purpose of Kerbals being derpy is to make them relatable by derpy players. Lolsplosions exist in trailers to tell players that everyone mucks up pretty often, and that they should not feel bad for mucking up. WE are why kerbals "are" derpy, and the kerbals have nothing to do with that.

 

Say, for the sake of argument, you are a new player (not a minute played) attracted by the improved tutorials. What fun would it be for a trailer that is entirely triumphant, only to get a game where you will fail for sure the first time you play. Also, even a serious company like space-X has a lot of lolsplosions, and they accieve success as well.

 

No I very much understand why the explosions are there.

[TheLiquor]

The cinematic trailer for ksp 2 was the reason I decided to get ksp, I had been thinking about it for a while but that trailer made me take the plunge. And I have been thoroughly enjoying it since. Awesome job on the new trailer!

Edited September 2, 2019 by TheLiquor

[Atlessa]

5 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

[snip] It would be a better KSP, [/snip]

 

That's debatable.  As you may have noticed.  People are debating it.  But I felt this was the core of your argument, and I STRONGLY disagree.  You may like it better, the majority (going by responses to this thread) would like it less.

[Guest]

This is just because memes are hard to get out of peoples' heads. There's literally nothing left of the "lolsokerbal" in the actual gameplay, only in marketing and flavor text. Kerbals, as seen in game, are not idiots. They're also not suicidal, and in fact them dying can be a problem in career. They're very brave, and are willing to ignore some secondary issues of things like Orion drive, but at the same time, they can build and Orion drive that works. Bravery and creativity, not recklessness and stupidity.

Kerbals are funny, cute and a bit derpy, but they're brave explorers first and foremost. I don't say we take out humor out of the game, but that we take gratitious slapstick out of its marketing and fluff. Especially with regards to endgame stuff, by which point both players and Kerbals would have an idea how to make a lander that doesn't collapse. It would be better KSP because its image would be less schizophrenic. The Kerbals=explosions meme actually comes from very early KSP, where it was Squad who was more or less stumbling around their own rocket game, and the whole thing was quite unstable. Spaceplanes were the first exception, but then, Squad decided they liked that aesthetic better, once they learned more about real rocketry, and once KSP became advanced enough so that most Kraken bugs and the dreaded rocket wobble (the cause of most rocket explosions in the early days) were eliminated.

[Guest]

(deleted as it doesn't add anything of value to the discussion)

Edited September 1, 2019 by Guest

[pschlik]

The Kerbals in the KSP 2 trailer can get to the Mun, make a base on Duna, send their people to a completely different star system, and even create some massive colonies so far from home. Sure, they aren’t perfect, but nothing about that trailer says “lol Kerbal dumb.” It’s true that some other marketing has indeed been “lol dum” but this isn’t about old marketing. If you think a couple of structural failures and solar panel clippings being featured suddenly means the entire trailer is about Kerbals screwing up, then you’ve really missed the point.

And when those Kerbals do mess up, they don’t die or anything, they are just lost in the moment basking in the scenery. Maybe that’s a lesson for everyone here-stop worrying so darn much about messing up. Whether that’s worrying about your own mistakes or worrying about the mistakes featured in someone else’s trailer, stop being so darn dramatic about it and focus on what really matters: exploring space, suckers.

Edited September 1, 2019 by pschlik

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, pschlik said:

And when those Kerbals do mess up, they don’t die or anything, they are just lost in the moment basking in the scenery. 

Yeah, because a colony collapsing on top of your head isn't lethal. My point is that they should de-emphasize explosions and focus on the exploration aspect, because that's where most of the gameplay is. The stuff blowing up is just redundant. It's an exploration game that's got funny critters in so you don't feel bad that your failures kill human astronauts. 

 

6 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

No, it's because tongue-in-cheek humour, slapstick, a blatant disregard for personal safety, and gratuitous explosions are central to the Kerbal experience.

See, I can make assertions too.

You can also ignore everything others say to the contrary. That is not much of an achievement. And if gratitious explosions are central to your "Kerbal" experience, something tells me you haven't gotten very far in the game, or learned much from it. There's so much real science to be found there, if you want to ignore it, that's all right, but don't expect this style of play to be the focus of the game. This is where KSP1 has been going for a while, and where I hope KSP2 will keep going as well. Catering to "lolsokerbal" players has no future, and thankfully it doesn't seem to be happening outside marketing.

[Snark]

12 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

Even if you hate KSP, it's fair to say that the announcement cinematic is one of the best teaser-length game cinematics we've seen in a number of years and is literally worthy of study by film and animation students.   It's handily on par with some of Blizzard's earlier works as a cinematic effort.

Direction and pacing is spot on.  Every sequence is tied perfectly together and to the soundtrack to give us that glimpse of a story and the emotional roller-coaster that goes with it.

Cinematography is *superb*.  Angles, framing, camera pan and cuts are all planned and executed brilliantly.  Better Call Saul, look out!

The cinematic piques interest, is true not only to the Kerbal mentality but also to the in-game mechanics and parts as confirmed by the developer.  This is not BS - we're going to be playing what we see (at lower fidelity obviously).

So, an anecdote.

At PAX, I wanted to go in and see the KSP2 presentation at their booth.  Not because I wanted to see new stuff (because at this point I'd already seen everything they were showing, from when we visited Star Theory's studio a couple days before).  Rather, it was because I wanted to watch people watching it.

So there we are, about 20 people watching some videos, interspersed with a Star Theory rep giving the spiel.  And I got to see the reactions of people who were seeing this stuff for the first time.

And... they were enraptured.  They loved it.  There was one young man, in particular, who watched the whole thing in a state of childlike wonder, with a smile on his face that I can only describe as "beatific".  It was incredibly touching and I just wanted to hug him.

So... yeah.  I agree, I love the cinematic, myself.  And I can give a data point that 20 people walking in off the floor of PAX loved it, too.  (Bear in mind that they've got to be at least fairly interested in KSP to start with, just to be there, because they had to stand in line quite a while to get in to see this-- probably the better part of an hour, for most of them.)

12 hours ago, The Aziz said:

There were only few trailers that gave me goosebumps, this is one of them.

^ This.

10 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

It would be perfect, had it not been for the "lolsokerbal" moments with everything collapsing and exploding. Would have worked much better with a pure "triumphant explorers" theme.

Actually, no, it wouldn't, at least not for me, and not for most of the 20 folks I watched, who clearly really enjoyed that bit.

9 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

The problem is not failures, but gratitious comedy and things falling apart for no reason. No, things constantly blowing up has no place in a KSP trailer, because it's not the point of the game. KSP is about exploration, not explosions. KSP should really ditch the "LOL explosions" image once and for all.

Naturally, tastes differ, so of course nobody's in any position to argue with you if that's your taste.

However... I don't think it's about "LOL explosions", really.  From watching people's reactions-- and from listening to the Star Theory rep's patter with the crowd-- I think it's more about this:

KSP is intimidating to a lot of people, at least at first.  Perhaps most people.  It's hard.

1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Kerbals, as seen in game, are not idiots.

Yes, that's right.  But players are, at least to begin with.  We all are.  This stuff is literally rocket science, and the learning curve is steep, painful, and frequently explosive.

KSP, more than most games I've come across, is about failure.  And learning from failure.  And building on it, in order to triumph over it and go on to bigger things.  A new player is going to blow stuff up.  A lot.  And not on purpose, either (well, not unless they want to).

That can be... dispiriting, if you don't have the "failure is okay, it's part of the learning process" mindset.  So I view these little bits of "oh gosh, it fell over and exploded" in the trailer as a nod to that:  as a way of saying, implicitly, "look, you're going to blow up a lot... but that's okay, because you're also going to succeed, and go amazing places."  That scene where they land on the Mun... well, yes, the lander falls over and goes boom.  But it clearly doesn't bother the kerbals too much, as they gaze out in awe across the crater at Kerbin looming on the horizon.  They take the failure in stride and get on with things.

For me, I thought the trailer hit a nice blend of triumphant exploration and sense-of-wonder, with a wry nod to the goofs that we're all going to run into along the way.  I view the fall-down-go-boom bits of the trailer as a form of encouragement to players... and I gotta say, watching the people watch it, that they seemed to take it that way.

 

[linuxgurugamer]

2 minutes ago, Snark said:

yeah.  I agree, I love the cinematic, myself.  And I can give a data point that 20 people walking in off the floor of PAX loved it, too.  (Bear in mind that they've got to be at least fairly interested in KSP to start with, just to be there, because they had to stand in line quite a while to get in to see this-- probably the better part of an hour, for most of them.)

Well, given that all 20 had already played KSP before, that's kind of given :-)

The rep asked for a show of hands, everybody raised their hand

[Snark]

3 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Well, given that all 20 had already played KSP before, that's kind of given :-)

The rep asked for a show of hands, everybody raised their hand

Yep.  And when he then followed that up with "...and who's blown up?" most of them raised their hands, with a certain amount of sheepish laughter.  And then he said "c'mon, everyone, be honest" and then everyone's hand went up and there was a lot of happy-- and less sheepish-- laughter.

It's hard to describe to someone who wasn't there, but there was a lot of we're-all-in-this-together sort of camaraderie.  It was clear that some folks did feel sheepish admitting that they had difficulties... and were happy and encouraged when other people shared that, too.  And that sort of encouragement is what I think the "failures" in the trailer are about.

"Yeah, stuff's gonna go sideways.  But no worries.  You got this."

[The Aziz]

40 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

 My point is that they should de-emphasize explosions and focus on the exploration aspect, because that's where most of the gameplay is. 

 

something tells me you haven't gotten very far in the game, or learned much from it. There's so much real science to be found there, if you want to ignore it, that's all right, but don't expect this style of play to be the focus of the game. 

There are tons of people, here on this forum, with hundreds of hours poured into this game and they spend more  time in VAB than in flight. And that's okay.

 

Now you made an assumption knowing nothing about what he achieved. Maybe he is building HYUGE ships that still can't fly well and blow up? What if that gives him joy? You can have ANY style of play you want and that's okay as well.

There is no clear target, no story, no constraints, so it's up to the player to set the focus of their game.

I mean, I'm building a 10k d-v mothership and I had like a hundred explosions only today when I was testing it. And that was enjoyable, and I learned from it - I learned that I have to improve something that's not working as it should.

The perfected mission might be your aim, but you are gonna see a lot of fire in the process, and you can't deny it. And neither did they.

[Just Jim]

I'll behinest... fitst

12 hours ago, The Aziz said:

There were only few trailers that gave me goosebumps, this is one of them.

I'll be honest... yeah, me too...... 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Just Jim