[KSP1.12.x] RealPlume - Stock v4.0.8 & RealPlume v13.3.2 [25/JUN/2021]

[Zorg]

10 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Is there any way to duplicate and offset a plume (for example, for use with linear aerospikes)?

 

I believe there is, @blowfish added some module manager syntax to RealPlume shortly before I started maintaining it. Im not entirely sure how its supposed to be done as I've never used the feature for any configs I've made, perhaps he might chime in.

I believe you can just define extra PLUME nodes and set the position for each? 

 

Theres also the old method of manually patching in extra MODEL_MULTI_SHURKEN_PERSIST nodes into the plume at AFTER[zzRealPlume] (basically copy from the prefabricated plume and reposition) but the other thing should be more elegant and simpler.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Zorg

[Rodger]

I remember trying to add multiple RP plumes to one thrust transform, and after trying to get it to work and talking to blowfish about it I think we concluded there was a bug not letting it work? It was a fairly complicated method too, I think defining multiple offset plumes then squashing them down into a single renamed plume?

Funnily enough I was trying it also with mk2x, but for the new mattock engine, not the aerospike 

[coyotesfrontier]

11 hours ago, Zorg said:

I believe there is, @blowfish added some module manager syntax to RealPlume shortly before I started maintaining it. Im not entirely sure how its supposed to be done as I've never used the feature for any configs I've made, perhaps he might chime in.

I believe you can just define extra PLUME nodes and set the position for each? 

 

Theres also the old method of manually patching in extra MODEL_MULTI_SHURKEN_PERSIST nodes into the plume at AFTER[zzRealPlume] (basically copy from the prefabricated plume and reposition) but the other thing should be more elegant and simpler.

Thank you! Can you give me an example config of the shrunken technique, as Rodger suggests that the newer method might not work?

[Zorg]

Ok so first you need to write a normal patch like you already have.

As an example shall we say we are using Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE

After this patch has run the end result is that inside the part you will have the plume applied to the EFFECTS node like so

PART
{
	EFFECTS
	{
		Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE
		{
			
		}
	}
}

Inside Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE will be a series of MODEL_MULTI_SHURIKEN_PERSIST nodes

You can see these nodes by looking at the relevant prefabs inside Gamedata/RealPlume/000_Generic_Plumes. I think the one you had in your screenshot is an older one so its probably inside Gamedata/RealPlume/000_Generic_Plumes/Deprecated

As an example see here: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealPlume/blob/master/GameData/RealPlume/000_Generic_Plumes/Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE.cfg

Now what you need to then do  is create a new patch targeting the part with the following syntax. You will need to create copies of all of the MODEL_MULTI_SHURIKEN_PERSIST nodes in the prefab and give each a unique name. eg ExtraShock1, ExtraPlume1 etc.

You will also need to enter the positions and scale too if relevant. I believe you can leave the rest alone. You only need to do this for the SHURIKEN nodes, they each represent a particle effect used to build the plume. No need to worry about the audio stuff.

You will need copies of all of the SHURIKEN nodes for each copy of the plume you want to add. and make sure your brackets are balanced, there are a lot of nodes

 

@PART[]:NEEDS[RealPlume,Smokescren]:AFFTER[zzRealplume]
{
  @EFFECTS
  {
    @Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE
    {
          MODEL_MULTI_SHURIKEN_PERSIST
          {
              //Get the inputs from the other config.
              transformName = #$/PLUME[Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE]:HAS[~processed[*]]/transformName$
              localRotation = #$/PLUME[Cryogenic_LowerSSME_CE]:HAS[~processed[*]]/localRotation$
              localPosition = 0,2,0
              fixedScale    = 0.5
              //
              name = ExtraShock1
              modelName =  RealPlume/Nertea_FX_New/CryoEngines/fx-erebus-core-1
              decluster =  false
              emitOnUpdate = true
              xyForce = 0
              emission
              {
              power = 0.0     0
              power = 0.001   0.4
              power = 0.1     0.3
              power = 0.2     0.5
              power = 1.0     3

              density = 0.6  1
              density = 0.55  0.7
              density = 0.5  0
              }
              speed
              {
              power = 0.0        0.2
              power = 0.001      0.2
              power = 0.1        0.3
              power = 0.2        0.4
              power = 1.0        0.5
              }
          }

          MODEL_MULTI_SHURIKEN_PERSIST
          {
            ~snipped~
            
            name = ExtraPlume1
            
            ~snipped~
          }

          MODEL_MULTI_SHURIKEN_PERSIST
          {
            ~snipped~
            
            name = ExtraShock2
            
            ~snipped~
          }

          MODEL_MULTI_SHURIKEN_PERSIST
          {
            ~snipped~
            
            name = ExtraPlume2
            
            ~snipped~
          }
    }
  }
}

Its annoying but this is what you end up doing if you dont have multiple fx transforms for something like an aerospike. Are you sure that part doesnt have extra transforms? What mod is it from? What does the stock plume for that part look like?

Edited March 15, 2020 by Zorg

[Zorg]

UPDATE

RealPlume-Stock v3.1.0

New

Update .version file
Update bundled RealPlume to v13.1.0
Update bundled ModuleManager to v4.1.3
Configs for CNAR (Completely NonAggressive Rocketry)
Configs for new ksp 1.9 Mainsail and Skipper

Fixes

Fix ReStock Pug

RealPlume v13.2.0

 

New

• All new alcolox plume with shock diamonds
• all new hydyne plume
• New abort plume for LES systems (uses sep motor plume but with added smoke)

Fixes

• Fix repeated keys in some plumes causing minor float curve errors
• Fix broken shaders on Methalox and Hypergolic orange .mus (apparent on 1.8+)

 

DOWNLOAD [Github]

Note that RealPlume remains compatible with KSP 1.7.3 but the bundled RealPlume-Stock package no longer officially supports versions older than KSP 1.8.1

If using Realism Overhaul, the correct version of Smokescreen for KSP 1.7.3 is available from the smokescreen page or CKAN.

 

[Zorg]

New Hydyne (left) and Alcolox (right) plumes

CNAR A4 engine using the new Alcolox plume.

New mainsail and skipper configs. Apologies to EngineerMartjin who kindly submitted configs when I was too busy to attend to this, but I ended up redoing it with the new kerolox plumes and also adding the verniers. Still makes me mad I have to use a kerolox plume on a Vulcain model but what you gonna do? Its a mainsail ultimately.

15 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Thank you! Can you give me an example config of the shrunken technique, as Rodger suggests that the newer method might not work?

Actually the way I did the new Mainsail config is a good direct example. Rather than repeating the main plume, I copied values from the kerolox vernier plume but the principle is the same.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealPlume-StockConfigs/blob/master/GameData/RealPlume-Stock/Squad/liquidEngineMainsail_v2.cfg

 

[Jansn67]

On 9/6/2019 at 9:06 PM, Zorg said:

RealPlume

Wooow, the new RP/Configs looks so.. awesome.

Thanks!

[Scialytic]

I originally started tweaking/updating some configs for my own use.  I feel like they are turning out better than I expected, which made me consider they might be good enough to submit.  Feedback is very welcome, and of course if they're not wanted that's fine.

The LV-TX87 "Bobcat" is inspired by the Aerojet LR-87, so I went with Hypergolic_LowerRed(_shock):

The KE-1 "Mastodon" is inspired by the mighty Rocketdyne F-1, so Kerolox_LowerFlame seemed appropriate:

This last one still needs work, particularly in how it changes with decreasing pressure.  The wiki says that the T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" is inspired by the Cesaroni Technology, Inc.-produced aerospike nozzles used in the Dryden Aerospike Rocket Test, but those were solid-fueled and thus not a good basis for the Dart's plume.  So, I grabbed some reference material https://imgur.com/a/CuvYHUb and tried to focus on common features.  This is derived from Hypergolic_LowerOrangeShock, but has been significantly modified.  It arguably uses way too many particles.  Is there an accepted/recommended limit on how complex one plume can be?

[leatherneck6017]

@Scialytic Those look very good. Nice work.

[Zorg]

55 minutes ago, Scialytic said:

I originally started tweaking/updating some configs for my own use.  I feel like they are turning out better than I expected, which made me consider they might be good enough to submit.  Feedback is very welcome, and of course if they're not wanted that's fine.

The LV-TX87 "Bobcat" is inspired by the Aerojet LR-87, so I went with Hypergolic_LowerRed(_shock):

 

The KE-1 "Mastodon" is inspired by the mighty Rocketdyne F-1, so Kerolox_LowerFlame seemed appropriate:

 

This last one still needs work, particularly in how it changes with decreasing pressure.  The wiki says that the T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" is inspired by the Cesaroni Technology, Inc.-produced aerospike nozzles used in the Dryden Aerospike Rocket Test, but those were solid-fueled and thus not a good basis for the Dart's plume.  So, I grabbed some reference material https://imgur.com/a/CuvYHUb and tried to focus on common features.  This is derived from Hypergolic_LowerOrangeShock, but has been significantly modified.  It arguably uses way too many particles.  Is there an accepted/recommended limit on how complex one plume can be?

These look pretty great! I never got around to updating the stock plumes with the new stuff, I took over realPlume-stock mainly with the goal of doing the plumes for ReStock actually. Im sure non restock users will appreciate these updates to the F1 and so on.

About the Dart that looks pretty good, once you're done tweaking I can add it as an aerospike prefab into RealPlume core. About complexity its not so much the number of fx as the total number of particles being emitted. Generally the solid rocket plumes vastly outstrip everything else but otherwise look at the total emission of the plumes with shock diamonds. Keep in mind the actual engine config can bring the total emission down with the emissionMult parameter too. Once you feel they are close you can make a pull request and I can take a look and make any suggestions as well.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Zorg

[Scialytic]

If this looks good, I'll clean up my .cfgs and submit a PR.

[Zorg]

3 hours ago, Scialytic said:

If this looks good, I'll clean up my .cfgs and submit a PR.

Looks great!

[Harvey W.]

The RP mod works extremely well and quite beautiful with ReStock(one of my favorite visual mods). 

But I'm confused because the KS-25 engine's plume doesn't look well in space because it's too dim and appears without the flare in the middle.

Is this normal or it's because my mistakes? What shall I do? (I'm a noob)

P.S. The engine in the picture is on.

Spoiler

The other mods I installed: NF Solar, KAS, KIS, Snacks, DistantObjectEnhancement, MJ, KJR, PersistRotation, Chatterer(I don't think they will affect RP too much)

Edited March 24, 2020 by Harvey W.

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, Harvey W. said:

The RP mod works extremely well and quite beautiful with ReStock(one of my favorite visual mods). 

But I'm confused because the KS-25 engine's plume doesn't look well in space because it's too dim and appears without the flare in the middle.

Is this normal or it's because my mistakes? What shall I do? (I'm a noob)

P.S. The engine in the picture is on.

  Reveal hidden contents

The other mods I installed: NF Solar, KAS, KIS, Snacks, DistantObjectEnhancement, MJ, KJR, PersistRotation, Chatterer(I don't think they will affect RP too much)

That's what its supposed to look like. Real hydrolox engines look very faint (apart from the Delta IV RS68) and up in vacuum they are actually invisible. I didnt go that far though but I am making all new hydrolox plumes quite faint in vacuum.

There is no flare on this particular one since its not necessary, the restock engines have very nice separate internal emissives. (there is a nice white/blue glow if you look inside the engine bell while its running.)

[Harvey W.]

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

That's what its supposed to look like. Real hydrolox engines look very faint (apart from the Delta IV RS68) and up in vacuum they are actually invisible. I didnt go that far though but I am making all new hydrolox plumes quite faint in vacuum.

There is no flare on this particular one since its not necessary, the restock engines have very nice separate internal emissives. (there is a nice white/blue glow if you look inside the engine bell while its running.)

Yes the glow is beautiful. thx.

And another question is whether the Mainsail engines & the Skipper engines have their plume configured - I didn't see them, their plumes look the same to they used to, and there aren't the "plum configured by RealPlum" note either.

Sorry for asking so frequently.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Harvey W.

[Scialytic]

I've started work on updating the RAPIER plumes, but the more I think about it, the less certain I am about how it should be.  The current setup uses Turbojet for AirBreathing mode and Hypergolic-Lower for ClosedCycle mode.  Those choices were made quite a long time ago, and the available plume options have expanded significantly in the years since then, so perhaps it's time to reconsider the plume.  I'm very interested in how Zorg (and anyone else) sees it.  Consider this post just me thinking out loud; I'm not married to any of these ideas.

Angle 1:  It's RealPlume so make it look like the real engine.  Okay, SABRE doesn't really exist, but it has been described with enough detail for our purposes.  It's a hydrolox rocket with air bypass ramjets.  Design the plumes to match that, and don't worry about the engine's in-game behavior.

Spoiler

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/beyond-possible/sabre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABRE_(rocket_engine)

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304052136/http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20110711082101/http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html

https://vimeo.com/45371849

https://vimeo.com/45382870

https://vimeo.com/45385806

 

Angle 2: The current setup makes sense for the RAPIER's in-game stats.  305 s vacuum ISP is pathetic for a hydrolox engine, especially one at the end of the (stock) tech tree.  Insert tangent debating whether KSP "liquid fuel" and "oxidizer" are best understood as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide anyway.  Therefore, just update Hypergolic-Lower to one of the newer hypergolic plumes, maybe tweak the Turbojet settings a little, and leave it at that.

 

Angle 3: The newest art from Reaction Engines Limited seems to depict a methalox setup.  Perhaps basing the new plumes on that could work as a compromise between the theoretical design and the in-game stats?

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, Harvey W. said:

Yes the glow is beautiful. thx.

And another question is whether the Mainsail engines & the Skipper engines have their plume configured - I didn't see them, their plumes look the same to they used to, and there aren't the "plum configured by RealPlum" note either.

Sorry for asking so frequently.

 

Make sure your RealPlume-stock is up to date. You need RealPlume-Stock v3.1.0 which was released last week that has configs for the new engines.

17 minutes ago, Scialytic said:

Angle 1:  It's RealPlume so make it look like the real engine.  Okay, SABRE doesn't really exist, but it has been described with enough detail for our purposes.  It's a hydrolox rocket with air bypass ramjets.  Design the plumes to match that, and don't worry about the engine's in-game behavior.

 

Angle 2: The current setup makes sense for the RAPIER's in-game stats.  305 s vacuum ISP is pathetic for a hydrolox engine, especially one at the end of the (stock) tech tree.  Insert tangent debating whether KSP "liquid fuel" and "oxidizer" are best understood as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide anyway.  Therefore, just update Hypergolic-Lower to one of the newer hypergolic plumes, maybe tweak the Turbojet settings a little, and leave it at that.

 

Angle 3: The newest art from Reaction Engines Limited seems to depict a methalox setup.  Perhaps basing the new plumes on that could work as a compromise between the theoretical design and the in-game stats?

 

I've always viewed KSP LFO as a catch all for (very) broadly similar fuels ranging from kerolox to hypergolics. IRL to KSP fuel mass balancing generally works at least getting you to the right ballpark with that assumption. 

But more broadly speaking there isnt 100% consistency on matching plume to engine theoretical fuel types. My personal policy is to match the plume to the IRL inspiration for engines that are strongly inspired by real world engines.

For instance the SSME (stock and restock) get hydrolox plumes which has always been the case. However the ReStock version of the Skipper gets an hydrolox plume as well as its inspired by the Mitsubishi LE7 and in game it functions as a sustainer. The Skipper also has optional LH2 configs via CryoEngines. The same actually applies to the restock Corgi (rl10 cluster), Rhino (Aerojet M1) etc.

As an exception though when it came to the non-restock Mainsail, I ended up giving it a kerolox plume. Although it is clearly inspired by the Vulcain, it is functionally an F1 class booster engine and is used as such. The non restock Skipper also has kerolox plumes.

To summarize I would say we dont need to get too prescriptive about this. Since this isnt realism overhaul (and real-fuels stockalike have their own configs), there is some room for discretion. I dont have very strong feelings about this  as I'm not a spaceplane guy but I would suggest you go with whatever looks or feels right to you re Angle 1 or Angle 3. I would probably go with the methalox plumes for the closed cycle mode if forced to pick but I leave it entirely to you. Not a fan on using hypergolic plumes though.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Zorg

[Scialytic]

14 minutes ago, Zorg said:

To summarize I would say we dont need to get too prescriptive about this. Since this isnt realism overhaul (and real-fuels stockalike have their own configs), there is some room for discretion. I dont have very strong feelings about this  as I'm not a spaceplane guy but I would suggest you go with whatever looks feels right to you re Angle 1 or Angle 3. I would probably go with the methalox plumes for the closed cycle mode if forced to pick but I leave it entirely to you. Not a fan on using hypergolic plumes though.

Sounds good.  I'll post some preliminary pictures when work is further along.

[Challyss]

@Zorg Thank you for the 1.9.1 update <3

[Harvey W.]

2 hours ago, Zorg said:

Make sure your RealPlume-stock is up to date. You need RealPlume-Stock v3.1.0 which was released last week that has configs for the new engines.

I'm really confused because I use CKAN to download the last version, and then spacedock to check it again. But still useless...

For the RAPIER engine, I remembered that there're plumes of skylon(skylone? I'm not sure) in the game SpaceEngine. Though it didn't pervade in the vacuum, I still consider it like a hydrolox engine.

 (I'm not sure how to mention the engines that burn liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen - after all, I'm just an English learner.)

Edited March 24, 2020 by Harvey W.
format changes

[Zorg]

15 minutes ago, Harvey W. said:

I'm really confused because I use CKAN to download the last version, and then spacedock to check it again. But still useless...

 

Do you have restock installed as well? The patch does not apply if you have restock installed.

The new Mainsail and Skipper engines are completely new parts with new part names, they dont directly apply to the old ones.

Restock when it updates for 1.9 will replace those models with completey updated new restock models. When this happens the updated restock versions will get the new plumes.

[blowfish]

13 hours ago, Scialytic said:

Angle 3: The newest art from Reaction Engines Limited seems to depict a methalox setup.  Perhaps basing the new plumes on that could work as a compromise between the theoretical design and the in-game stats?

What do you see here that clearly points to methane/LNG?  Their past research has focused pretty heavily on hydrogen, and they were pushing that tech pretty hard just to get to Mach 5.  Methane would have lower performance.

[Scialytic]

37 minutes ago, blowfish said:

What do you see here that clearly points to methane/LNG?

The plume color

[blowfish]

4 hours ago, Scialytic said:

The plume color

That's not enough to go on.

[Scialytic]

2 hours ago, blowfish said:

That's not enough to go on.

Are there any hydrolox rockets with purple plumes?  That's an honest question; I'm genuinely interested.