I dont understand mpls (mobile Processing labs)

[Space boy]

I have unlocked the mpls recently and I know that they are for science but...... 

I dont get it. 

[Geonovast]

Is there something specific you don't get, or is it the whole thing?

They're actually fairly simple to use.  Generally when I use them, I have a bunch of science experiments on the same craft.  Once you complete an experiment, instead of transmitting it, there should be a yellow button that will allow you "Process in the Lab"  Once you have some data sent to the lab, you can right click on the lab and hit "Start Research".  You must have at least one scientist in the lab to do this.

The lab will slowly crunch the numbers and convert the data into science, which you can transmit at any time, with the "Transmit Science" button after right clicking on the lab.

Each experiment can only be processed in each lab once, though, so you can't keep sending the same data to it over and over again.  Notice that's per lab.  If you have more than one lab, you can process the data in each of them.

[Space boy]

3 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

Is there something specific you don't get, or is it the whole thing?

They're actually fairly simple to use.  Generally when I use them, I have a bunch of science experiments on the same craft.  Once you complete an experiment, instead of transmitting it, there should be a yellow button that will allow you "Process in the Lab"  Once you have some data sent to the lab, you can right click on the lab and hit "Start Research".  You must have at least one scientist in the lab to do this.

The lab will slowly crunch the numbers and convert the data into science, which you can transmit at any time, with the "Transmit Science" button after right clicking on the lab.

Each experiment can only be processed in each lab once, though, so you can't keep sending the same data to it over and over again.  Notice that's per lab.  If you have more than one lab, you can process the data in each of them. 

When we recover scientific data, we get more science points. And transmitting it gains less. So does the mpl cancel out that transmit data loss?? And also to answer your question, I dont understand the whole thing. 

Just now, Space boy said:

When we recover scientific data, we get more science points. And transmitting it gains less. So does the mpl cancel out that transmit data loss?? And also to answer your question, I dont understand the whole thing. 

And also, getting  more science from different biomes will work right?? 

[Geonovast]

Just now, Space boy said:

When we recover scientific data, we get more science points. And transmitting it gains less. So does the mpl cancel out that transmit data loss?? And also to answer your question, I dont understand the whole thing. 

As far as I'm aware, there's no transmission loss when transmitting from a lab.  And science transmitted from a lab is like "generic science".  It's point that aren't tied to anything else.  Recovering an experiment and crunching it in a lab are two completely separate things.  You can do both.

[Space boy]

15 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

As far as I'm aware, there's no transmission loss when transmitting from a lab.  And science transmitted from a lab is like "generic science".  It's point that aren't tied to anything else.  Recovering an experiment and crunching it in a lab are two completely separate things.  You can do both.

Oh, so i can transmit the same experiment from a lab and recover the same experiment and gain science from both???? 

[Geonovast]

Just now, Space boy said:

Oh, so i can transmit the same experiment from a lab and recover the same experiment and gain science from both???? 

You bet.

[Space boy]

What about the other features like level up crew, and other stuff I cant see to remember at the moment. 

[Geonovast]

The level up crew thing just means that you can promote your kerbals that have gained enough experience to do so in the lab instead of having to recover them on Kerbin.

It does something with Kerbnet, which I have never used, so can't help you there.

[Space boy]

I have read some where that mpls can provide like, infinite science when you provide it with data. 

[Geonovast]

10 minutes ago, Space boy said:

I have read some where that mpls can provide like, infinite science when you provide it with data. 

They can, in a sense.  A single MPL cannot, but like I said above, the limitation is such that you can only crunch each experiment once per lab.   You could have a station with 20 MPLs and one mystery goo container, and that would allow you to process the thing 20 times.

[Space boy]

Well mlps certainly are op aren't they??? 

[Zhetaan]

1 hour ago, Space boy said:

Oh, so i can transmit the same experiment from a lab and recover the same experiment and gain science from both???? 

Let me clarify that:  processing an experiment in the lab does use it up; you'll need to go back to get a duplicate to recover at Kerbin.  You are correct, however, in that you can take two copies of the exact same experiment and get science from each one.  You can also save yourself that second trip with creative vessel design.

There are a few other points about this to make:

• Labs are nearly worthless when landed on Kerbin.  The data value for processed experiments there is reduced by 90%.
• Labs work better when you land them on a celestial body.  The data value is increased by 10% when you bring experiments to a lab that is landed (or splashed down) on a body that is not Kerbin.
• Labs work better yet when you bring them to the same sphere of influence as the experiments are obtained.  The data value is increased by 25% when you process experiments in their own sphere of influence (for example, when you process Minmus experiments in a Minmus-orbiting lab).
• You can combine these effects:  a Mun experiment brought to a lab landed on the Mun will give much more data.
• It is best to use high-level Scientists in the lab.  Higher-level Scientists do not increase the amount of data or science points, but they do increase processing speed so that you get the science faster.
• Labs have limits on how much data and science they can contain.  I do not know whether it will refuse to process experiments in excess of the limit, but either way, you will need to revisit the lab periodically to transmit built-up science and refill the data buffer.
• Labs process data into science faster when they are full of data.  Try to provide enough experiments to keep the data buffer full.
• The data conversion rate is 1 data point to 5 science points.  The data value depends on the original science value of the experiment and the landed or sphere of influence modifiers, but you can usually expect a return of at least five times the original science value for each experiment.
• Labs do not need electric charge to process experiments into data, but they do need electric charge to process data into science.  Be sure to provide a power supply.
• Labs also need electricity and a radio (not provided) to transmit science to Kerbin.  Be certain to provide an antenna capable of reaching Kerbin or a Kerbin-connected relay, and enough electric charge (in batteries) to power the transmission.

18 minutes ago, Space boy said:

I have read some where that mpls can provide like, infinite science when you provide it with data. 

That is true, but not quite the way you put the idea.  There are only so many places in the Kerbal solar system, and there are only so many experiments that can be done.  Thus, there is a maximum amount of science that can be obtained from each celestial body.  Since each lab can process experiments only once, each lab also has a maximum amount of science that can be obtained.

However, there's no limit to the number of labs you can build.

Also, asteroids spawn indefinitely and they have science experiments, too--and those experiments can be processed in a lab!

(Edit:  Ninja'd by @Geonovast)

3 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Well mlps certainly are op aren't they??? 

Some people think so.  Granted, some people think that asteroids are overpowered, too, because they also provide for infinite science.

On the other hand, career mode contracts also provide infinite funds, reputation, and science, so maybe it's a question of how you want to play more than anything else.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Zhetaan

[Space boy]

9 minutes ago, Zhetaan said:

Let me clarify that:  processing an experiment in the lab does use it up; you'll need to go back to get a duplicate to recover at Kerbin.  You are correct, however, in that you can take two copies of the exact same experiment and get science from each one.  You can also save yourself that second trip with creative vessel design.

There are a few other points about this to make:

• Labs are nearly worthless when landed on Kerbin.  The data value for processed experiments there is reduced by 90%.
• Labs work better when you land them on a celestial body.  The data value is increased by 10% when you bring experiments to a lab that is landed (or splashed down) on a body that is not Kerbin.
• Labs work better yet when you bring them to the same sphere of influence as the experiments are obtained.  The data value is increased by 25% when you process experiments in their own sphere of influence (for example, when you process Minmus experiments in a Minmus-orbiting lab).
• You can combine these effects:  a Mun experiment brought to a lab landed on the Mun will give much more data.
• It is best to use high-level Scientists in the lab.  Higher-level Scientists do not increase the amount of data or science points, but they do increase processing speed so that you get the science faster.
• Labs have limits on how much data and science they can contain.  I do not know whether it will refuse to process experiments in excess of the limit, but either way, you will need to revisit the lab periodically to transmit built-up science and refill the data buffer.
• Labs process data into science faster when they are full of data.  Try to provide enough experiments to keep the data buffer full.
• The data conversion rate is 1 data point to 5 science points.  The data value depends on the original science value of the experiment and the landed or sphere of influence modifiers, but you can usually expect a return of at least five times the original science value for each experiment.
• Labs do not need electric charge to process experiments into data, but they do need electric charge to process data into science.  Be sure to provide a power supply.
• Labs also need electricity and a radio (not provided) to transmit science to Kerbin.  Be certain to provide an antenna capable of reaching Kerbin or a Kerbin-connected relay, and enough electric charge (in batteries) to power the transmission.

That is true, but not quite the way you put the idea.  There are only so many places in the Kerbal solar system, and there are only so many experiments that can be done.  Thus, there is a maximum amount of science that can be obtained from each celestial body.  Since each lab can process experiments only once, each lab also has a maximum amount of science that can be obtained.

However, there's no limit to the number of labs you can build.

Also, asteroids spawn indefinitely and they have science experiments, too--and those experiments can be processed in a lab!

Some people think so.  Granted, some people think that asteroids are overpowered, too, because they also provide for infinite science.

On the other hand, career mode contracts also provide infinite funds, reputation, and science, so maybe it's a question of how you want to play more than anything else.

Thanks man, understood 

[Snark]

16 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Well mlps certainly are op aren't they???

They are and they aren't.  It depends on how you play the game.

If you're a player who plans to go out, explore the solar system, visit Mun and Minmus and maybe other planets... then it simply isn't needed, because you can easily max out the tech tree just by going to Mun/Minmus in the "traditional" way without using an MPL at all.

The MPL is a massive science amplifier, so if that's the way you play the game, then yes, it's so overpowered that it's gamebreaking.  That's how I play the game, so I basically just pretend that its science-processing function doesn't exist.  I never use the part, unless I either need to include one to complete a contract, or else I put one on a long-range exploration ship in order to get the "train crew" ability (which I think is a great idea and not "overpowered").

The thing to understand is that most players never go interplanetary.  Most, in fact, never even go as far as the Mun.  There are tons and tons of players who just tinker around on Kerbin, and simply getting to Kerbin orbit is their high-water mark.  There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how they play the game.  But it does present an interesting gameplay quandary, because science from Kerbin is so low-value that if you never go anywhere else, you'd basically be limited to scrounging around the bottom of the tech tree and would have no way of getting any farther, ever.  It would be a total stranglehold on your game.

So the MPL is basically Squad's attempt to provide an alternate route to science for people who play the game that way.  It means that they can acquire science as much as they want, but they do actually have to work for it.  For that purpose, I think it does a reasonable job.  If you asked me to design some other mechanism that could accomplish the same goal, I don't know that I could come up with anything better.

30 minutes ago, Space boy said:

I have read some where that mpls can provide like, infinite science when you provide it with data. 

They do two things.

#1, they're a science amplifier.  If you have acquired a certain amount of science results somewhere, then you get a lot more R&D points if you process them in the science lab than if you bring them back to Kerbin-- by a lot, it's a factor of like 5 or more (I don't remember the exact numbers since I never use the part for this).

#2, they make science repeatable, since it's per-lab.  Without the MPL, for example, you can only get science points for "Mystery Goo result for space near Kerbin" once, ever, for your entire career.  Go take it once, bring it back, and you're basically done with that and going to acquire another "Mystery Goo from space near Kerbin" again in the future won't get you anything significant.  But, if you launch a ship with a science lab, and it processes "Mystery Goo from space near Kerbin", you get science points for that... and you can then do it again if you launch another ship with a different science lab on it, and you can keep repeating that ad infinitum for as long as your patience holds out.

[Space boy]

3 minutes ago, Snark said:

They are and they aren't.  It depends on how you play the game.

If you're a player who plans to go out, explore the solar system, visit Mun and Minmus and maybe other planets... then it simply isn't needed, because you can easily max out the tech tree just by going to Mun/Minmus in the "traditional" way without using an MPL at all.

The MPL is a massive science amplifier, so if that's the way you play the game, then yes, it's so overpowered that it's gamebreaking.  That's how I play the game, so I basically just pretend that its science-processing function doesn't exist.  I never use the part, unless I either need to include one to complete a contract, or else I put one on a long-range exploration ship in order to get the "train crew" ability (which I think is a great idea and not "overpowered").

The thing to understand is that most players never go interplanetary.  Most, in fact, never even go as far as the Mun.  There are tons and tons of players who just tinker around on Kerbin, and simply getting to Kerbin orbit is their high-water mark.  There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how they play the game.  But it does present an interesting gameplay quandary, because science from Kerbin is so low-value that if you never go anywhere else, you'd basically be limited to scrounging around the bottom of the tech tree and would have no way of getting any farther, ever.  It would be a total stranglehold on your game.

So the MPL is basically Squad's attempt to provide an alternate route to science for people who play the game that way.  It means that they can acquire science as much as they want, but they do actually have to work for it.  For that purpose, I think it does a reasonable job.  If you asked me to design some other mechanism that could accomplish the same goal, I don't know that I could come up with anything better.

They do two things.

#1, they're a science amplifier.  If you have acquired a certain amount of science results somewhere, then you get a lot more R&D points if you process them in the science lab than if you bring them back to Kerbin-- by a lot, it's a factor of like 5 or more (I don't remember the exact numbers since I never use the part for this).

#2, they make science repeatable, since it's per-lab.  Without the MPL, for example, you can only get science points for "Mystery Goo result for space near Kerbin" once, ever, for your entire career.  Go take it once, bring it back, and you're basically done with that and going to acquire another "Mystery Goo from space near Kerbin" again in the future won't get you anything significant.  But, if you launch a ship with a science lab, and it processes "Mystery Goo from space near Kerbin", you get science points for that... and you can then do it again if you launch another ship with a different science lab on it, and you can keep repeating that ad infinitum for as long as your patience holds out.

Okay thanks. 

I think I will mix going to other planets and taking science from science lab.

Just as an FYI- i dont lurk around at kerbin I do go to mun and minmus, I am a pretty new player so those are the only places I have been to. 

[Snark]

1 minute ago, Space boy said:

Just as an FYI- i dont lurk around at kerbin I do go to mun and minmus, I am a pretty new player so those are the only places I have been to. 

Yep, that's pretty common.  KSP players that go as far as Mun/Minmus  (like yourself) are a minority, but a reasonably large one.  Players that actually go interplanetary are a fairly small minority.

(Note that I'm talking about the player base as a whole, not specifically about the people who are here in the forums, who represent only a tiny fraction of the overall KSP player base.  My impression is that among forum members, the average level of KSP expertise/experience tends to be substantially higher than with the player base as a whole, so you're swimming with somewhat bigger fish when you're here.)

So you're in plenty of good company. 

FYI, if you do some biome-hopping it's perfectly possible to max out the tech tree on just Mun/Minmus, without even wringing them completely dry.  So that's an option for you, should you choose to do so-- but of course the MPL is also perfectly reasonable, if you'd like to skip the hassle of hopping around a lot.

[Space boy]

3 minutes ago, Snark said:

Yep, that's pretty common.  KSP players that go as far as Mun/Minmus  (like yourself) are a minority, but a reasonably large one.  Players that actually go interplanetary are a fairly small minority.

(Note that I'm talking about the player base as a whole, not specifically about the people who are here in the forums, who represent only a tiny fraction of the overall KSP player base.  My impression is that among forum members, the average level of KSP expertise/experience tends to be substantially higher than with the player base as a whole, so you're swimming with somewhat bigger fish when you're here.)

So you're in plenty of good company. 

FYI, if you do some biome-hopping it's perfectly possible to max out the tech tree on just Mun/Minmus, without even wringing them completely dry.  So that's an option for you, should you choose to do so-- but of course the MPL is also perfectly reasonable, if you'd like to skip the hassle of hopping around a lot.

Can't imagine playing ksp without these forums. 

[Snark]

1 minute ago, Space boy said:

Can't imagine playing ksp without these forums. 

Neither can I.    But it's what most people do.  There are only like a couple hundred thousand forum accounts, and most of those are very rarely used and/or have been dormant for years; only a few thousand are active to any extent, and only a few hundred are highly active.  Whereas there are literal millions of KSP players.

[Space boy]

1 minute ago, Snark said:

Neither can I.    But it's what most people do.  There are only like a couple hundred thousand forum accounts, and most of those are very rarely used and/or have been dormant for years; only a few thousand are active to any extent, and only a few hundred are highly active.  Whereas there are literal millions of KSP players.

Yeah that's true I just randomly browse some questions asked by players and there is always one set of people that are answering the questions. 

For example, you,  I have seen you answer alot of questions but except for you and a couple others, nobody is active. 

[Geonovast]

53 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Can't imagine playing ksp without these forums. 

I can't either.  I had the game for, IIRC, a few weeks before I came across here, probably while trying to figure out how to land on the Mun, since the tutorial was extremely unhelpful.

I likely would have ragequit this game if it were not for the forums.

47 minutes ago, Space boy said:

nobody is active. 

I see quite a few people answering questions, I think @Snark just stands out due to the verbosity of most of his posts.

[Zhetaan]

1 hour ago, Space boy said:

Can't imagine playing ksp without these forums. 

 

25 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

I can't either.  I had the game for, IIRC, a few weeks before I came across here, probably while trying to figure out how to land on the Mun, since the tutorial was extremely unhelpful.

Oddly enough, I was the opposite:  I lurked on the forum for over a year before I purchased the game, and then continued to lurk for a while before making an account.

30 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

I think @Snark just stands out due to the verbosity of most of his posts.

@Snark is certainly thorough.  Part is probably also his in-the-trenches style of moderation, too.  I've seen some other fora where the regular user base is frightened of what they see as a too-active moderation staff, but here I've only seen a group of people who genuinely want to help people have fun in an admittedly difficult game.  That help will be civil, but it's available to all who want it.  As such, I've never had anything but positive KSP forum experiences, even on the occasions that I disagreed with other users.  We may have some lively debates, but the only flame wars involved the 'Destroy the KSC!' Challenge.  It really is a friendly community, so please do stay a while.

[Barefoot Friar]

On 9/16/2019 at 1:53 PM, Zhetaan said:

@SnarkWe may have some lively debates, but the only flame wars involved the 'Destroy the KSC!' Challenge.  It really is a friendly community, so please do stay a while.

I went looking for a fight and spent five page laughing my guts out before I finally got your pun. ;-)

Edited September 17, 2019 by Barefoot Friar