Lord Aurelius

KSP2 and the Rockwell Space Plan

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For some reason, despite my love for rocketry and space, I missed out on this gem until the other day when a friend showed it to me (WARNING: VERY LARGE IMAGE).

Spoiler

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For those of you not already familiar with the Rockwell Space Plan, it was developed in the 1980s by a Rockwell engineer, outlining an ambitious plan for human expansion into space, including colonizing other planets and interstellar travel. It's based on real tech and expected near future tech, with hard sci-fi taking over near the end.

From looking through the plan, it looks like with the new engines and colony mechanics it would be entirely possible to fully follow this in KSP2 without mods.

Anyone else curious to try to follow this plan in KSP2?

Edited by Lord Aurelius

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2 hours ago, Lord Aurelius said:

Anyone else curious to try to follow this plan in KSP2?

Ahh... that's a bit confusing. 

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That's a amazing looking plan! Never seen that before. If only we had a self supporting Lunar base in 2018.

I would like to do something similar. Not sure I would do a Ike (Phobos and Deimos) outpost before doing a Duna (Mars) base though.

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2 hours ago, Lach_01298 said:

That's a amazing looking plan! Never seen that before. If only we had a self supporting Lunar base in 2018.

I would like to do something similar. Not sure I would do a Ike (Phobos and Deimos) outpost before doing a Duna (Mars) base though.

You might do an outpost for refueling and habitation/life support or something on Ike if playing JNSQ (2.7 times stock size).  With kerbalism, the Ike option becomes viable so that you can refuel through a robotic base on Ike for crewed craft on high delta vee but short trips to minimise radiation exposure.

Peace.

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4 hours ago, Lach_01298 said:

If only we had a self supporting Lunar base in 2018.

Sadly, there is more money to be made and more votes to be gained by bombing the hell out of each other here on earth.  The future looked bright and starry in the earlier days of the space program.

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4 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

Sadly, there is more money to be made and more votes to be gained by bombing the hell out of each other here on earth.  The future looked bright and starry in the earlier days of the space program.

Dreamers see the future, profiteers only see the moment.

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5 minutes ago, AdmFranzvonHippie said:

Dreamers see the future, profiteers only see the moment.

Sad but true

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The present moment is the gate through which we must pass to reach the future. One aspect of the politico-economic reality is you have to justify the expense of space development in relation to human wellbeing and economic productivity.

Which is why the current R&D strategy for space can proceed if it is productive relevant to the present economy, something Elon Musk is well aware of and is making a good job of optimising.

As Lach-01298 pointed out we are already falling far behind the Rockwell time line because we have other priorities. These include development for undeveloped economies, which is also an humanitarian endeavour as this raises the standard of living and survival rates. Which is why people like Bill & Melinda Gates have funded the development of a malaria vaccine for example rather than space stuff. The good news is that the more developed and livable our lives become the more productivity we can sustain and the better space development will proceed.

Currently we are not only focussed on global equality of development but we have to change over from fossil fuels which is a major economic drag, even if the climate arguments are ignored (which personally I would not think was wise) the finite supply cannot be and it implies an impending collapse of supply and therefore of global productivity, so the sooner we get on with it the less catastrophic it will be while we still have fossil support. So this has to be prioritised. 

In this context the defence of Earth from asteroid strikes is one of the few space related goals we cannot afford to ignore, so I would suggest that for the time being this has to be the focus for space science and exploration development beyond industrial applications, (which provide their own incentives and thereby funds). It is a feature I could not find on the Rockwell plan, please correct me if I am wrong.

Edited by boolybooly

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2 hours ago, boolybooly said:

These include development for undeveloped economies, which is also an humanitarian endeavour as this raises the standard of living and survival rates. Which is why people like Bill & Melinda Gates have funded the development of a malaria vaccine for example rather than space stuff. The good news is that the more developed and livable our lives become the more productivity we can sustain and the better space development will proceed.

Given that the total budget for the US foreign aid and NASA *combined* is about 1% of the total US budget, I don't really see those as either-or.

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11 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

There was a remake and modernization done on it a few years ago, available here:

https://integratedspaceanalytics.com

3051028-inline-i-2-the-ultimate-space-po

That's also very interesting and cool plan. Certainly easier to read.

 

On 9/22/2019 at 9:27 PM, boolybooly said:

The present moment is the gate through which we must pass to reach the future. One aspect of the politico-economic reality is you have to justify the expense of space development in relation to human wellbeing and economic productivity.

Which is why the current R&D strategy for space can proceed if it is productive relevant to the present economy, something Elon Musk is well aware of and is making a good job of optimising.

As Lach-01298 pointed out we are already falling far behind the Rockwell time line because we have other priorities. These include development for undeveloped economies, which is also an humanitarian endeavour as this raises the standard of living and survival rates. Which is why people like Bill & Melinda Gates have funded the development of a malaria vaccine for example rather than space stuff. The good news is that the more developed and livable our lives become the more productivity we can sustain and the better space development will proceed.

Currently we are not only focussed on global equality of development but we have to change over from fossil fuels which is a major economic drag, even if the climate arguments are ignored (which personally I would not think was wise) the finite supply cannot be and it implies an impending collapse of supply and therefore of global productivity, so the sooner we get on with it the less catastrophic it will be while we still have fossil support. So this has to be prioritised. 

In this context the defence of Earth from asteroid strikes is one of the few space related goals we cannot afford to ignore, so I would suggest that for the time being this has to be the focus for space science and exploration development beyond industrial applications, (which provide their own incentives and thereby funds). It is a feature I could not find on the Rockwell plan, please correct me if I am wrong.

I can see why people think space exploration and expansion is a unnecessary waste of money that can be better spent elsewhere. But I see that the technologies needed to live and thrive in space have very crucial and important applications here on earth. 

A few examples:

  • In space fossil fuels like coal and oil are nonexistent. The reality is that modern industrial society is based on processes that are complete dependent on fossil fuel. Like making steel, plastics, the majority of industrial chemicals, etc. If we where to make these things off world, using fossil fuels wouldn't be a option. New methods of manufacturing that are resource efficient must be made.
  • Living in space shows you how precious "waste" is. Ways of creating fully closed waste and recycling loops are essential for long term settlements. On earth since resources are "plentiful" (i.e it is cheaper to make and dig up new stuff than to recycle old stuff) it encourages society to chuck waste out into things like landfills. I think as soon as you make rubbish "Valuable"  society will change to take advantage of this resource.
  • Power generation and storage must be entirely reworked. It encourages things like small safe and reliable modular nuclear reactors for power in remote areas; hydrogen fuel for energy storage, transportation, (Rockets); Solar panel development and possible orbital solar power beaming back to earth.
  • More resource, water and land efficient ways of farming food for people.

I see a lot of these technologies can contribute to solving earth problems like climate change, food and water security and increasing the standard of living for humanity. 

I am not saying all of our money and effort should go into space colonisation and that direct funding and aid to people is not useful. I'm saying that humanity, if we get our act together can do a lot of things simultaneously that would help and inspire everyone. Basically I think some money and resources can be better spent and can help multiple areas. Examples such as diverting money from the fossil fuel industry instead of propping it up with government subsidies (Note: I can't speak for for all governments but the Australian government is absolutely terrible at this with their "Clean Coal" and disregard to climate change)

Anyway to lighting up the mood lets crash some spacecraft!

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On 9/20/2019 at 10:21 AM, Lord Aurelius said:

For some reason, despite my love for rocketry and space, I missed out on this gem until the other day when a friend showed it to me (WARNING: VERY LARGE IMAGE).

For those of you not already familiar with the Rockwell Space Plan, it was developed in the 1980s by a Rockwell engineer, outlining an ambitious plan for human expansion into space, including colonizing other planets and interstellar travel. It's based on real tech and expected near future tech, with hard sci-fi taking over near the end.

From looking through the plan, it looks like with the new engines and colony mechanics it would be entirely possible to fully follow this in KSP2 without mods.

Anyone else curious to try to follow this plan in KSP2?

I'm just gonna stick with giant rockets and get places in one stage other than making refueling bases everywhere

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