[1.9] Completely Non-Aggressive Rocketry - V2 Rocket Add-on

[DylanSemrau]

Jeez yeah this was not balanced correctly at all, my bad. I’ve been wanting to get back to this for a while but school and other mods have been keeping me from doing that. If anyone wants to submit a PR on GitHub to help with balancing I’ll take it.

[Spike88]

On 11/2/2020 at 3:43 AM, biohazard15 said:

Problem is, the Corporal (specifically, the engine part) in this mod is too heavy. Like, made out of depleted uranium heavy.

Change it to something like 50kg from the current 0.75t, and you'll be OK. FYI, fully loaded WAC Corporal weighs 313 kg. Fully loaded CNAR Corporal with engine module dry mass set to 50kg weighs around 108kg - which gives it enough oomph to reach upper atmosphere (without Bumper) or 100+ km height (with Bumper) on 2.5x rescale. If you struggle to reach space, I'd recommend building an R-2 instead of Bumper (two Titov-100 tanks instead of one).

I never thought of that, I just bumped up the fuel and thrust to compensate. I can confirm lowering the engine's weight greatly increased performance.

 

Edit: @DylanSemrau: I sent the pull request with @biohazard15's weight reduction for balance.  Also, is it possible to edit the model for attaching modular launch bases?

Edited November 5, 2020 by Spike88

[Neebel]

Good job, it's a really nice mod and it adds a little bit of fun to first tech tree node. But why has the WAC Corporal upper stage such a bad TWR? The rocket can go much higher without the additional stage and I don't think this is supposed to be. 

[CAPFlyer]

Okay, I'm trying to use this is 1.11 and I can't get either part to ignite.  I've got a bunch of addons, including Engine Igniter but I'm also using the RN_US_Rockets Aerobee and when I look, the two have identical CFGs and work fine, but CNAR shows no ISP and the engines won't ignite.

[OrdinaryKerman]

Been really enjoying this mod (but with the balance changes suggested earlier in this thread)

Two screenshots:

(Sorry, forgot to turn on antialiasing)

Quote

Using custom Redstone Green recolor (basically just took the Bumper texture and overlaid green on top)

 

[OrdinaryKerman]

On 1/8/2021 at 7:01 PM, Neebel said:

Good job, it's a really nice mod and it adds a little bit of fun to first tech tree node. But why has the WAC Corporal upper stage such a bad TWR? The rocket can go much higher without the additional stage and I don't think this is supposed to be. 

@DylanSemrau said earlier (paraphrasing) that this mod still needs balance tweaks. For now, you can change the Capella Engine's dry mass in the config from 0.75 (750 kg, over twice the wet mass of the real Corporal) to something lower like 0.0625 (62.5 kg, just under half the dry mass of the real one)

On 11/3/2020 at 1:28 AM, Spike88 said:

for attaching modular launch bases

Change the values for node_stack_bottom in TitovEngine1.cfg to this: 0.0, -1.02788, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0 . That should give you a sensibly-placed bottom node on the engine.

Or do it through MM patch, your choice.

Edited March 11, 2021 by OrdinaryKerman

[Beetlecat]

Nice -- a good set of tweaks. TY.

 

 

Well, shoot. How did I manage this?

Spoiler

Hmm. Applying the mass change to the Titov Engine to 0.0551156 now makes it not lift off at all but rather drop like a rock from the launch stand. I may have messed something up. :I

Edited March 11, 2021 by Beetlecat

[OrdinaryKerman]

1 hour ago, Beetlecat said:

0.0551156

1. I said the Capella engine, not Titov. Titov is OK.

2. I have no idea why your engine now has 0 thrust.

[Beetlecat]

1 minute ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

1. I said the Capella engine, not Titov. Titov is OK.

2. I have no idea why your engine now has 0 thrust.

Heh -- there was an earlier mention of the Titov. Maybe that was already handled in the mod. 

Not exactly zero thrust, but certainly not enough to lift its own weight.   It's likely connected to the Kiwi Tech Tree which makes a bunch of tweaks to scale, etc. Maybe I'll revert the changes in case the combination is killing the resulting thrust.

[OrdinaryKerman]

Just now, Beetlecat said:

Not exactly zero thrust, but certainly not enough to lift its own weight.   It's likely connected to the Kiwi Tech Tree which makes a bunch of tweaks to scale, etc. Maybe I'll revert the changes in case the combination is killing the resulting thrust

I use CNAR with KTT as well, and I just delete the CNAR patches since they make CNAR parts less realistic (0.625m V2? Get a copy of Taerobee from the Internet Archive for that (yes, Taerobee v1.3.0 is stored in web.archive.org))

[Beetlecat]

Okay -- this confounding. It appears to be the fins? They're either gluing the craft to the ground/pad, or entirely blocking the thrust from the engine. It may be the latter, because they begin overheating almost immediately, and I finally let them burn up which released the rocket completely  (which is how I got that shot of it crammed into the observation bunker. Such a lucky shot!

Swapping a set of stock fins onto the rocket and it lifts right off as expected.

Are there any 1.10/1.11 changes that would be immediately suspect for that? Part mass bug?

[OrdinaryKerman]

3 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Okay -- this confounding. It appears to be the fins? They're either gluing the craft to the ground/pad, or entirely blocking the thrust from the engine. It may be the latter, because they begin overheating almost immediately, and I finally let them burn up which released the rocket completely  (which is how I got that shot of it crammed into the observation bunker. Such a lucky shot!

The fins are blocking the exhaust. Move them up a bit so the top of the fins line up with the top of the engine module, that worked for me. Of course that makes the stripe on the fins misaligned with the one on the engine, but now the rocket works as a rocket.

Edited March 12, 2021 by OrdinaryKerman

[Beetlecat]

That was it -- just so.

Also pulling the fins *out* from the center (and rotating them a bit) so the vanes sit apart from each other, has the same effect---keeping them visually aligned with the paint job.

I apparently forgot this from the last time I fiddled with this mod. Probably some tweaks to the node attach values could help.

 

[OrdinaryKerman]

56 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Also pulling the fins *out* from the center (and rotating them a bit) so the vanes sit apart from each other, has the same effect---keeping them visually aligned with the paint job.

Thanks, that also solves the vanes clipping 

[Beetlecat]

Straighten up and fly right...

Spoiler

After spending way too long fiddling with nodes and configs, and wasting way too much of @Stone Blue's time, fins now snap to the right spacing and orientation!

The changes are in the node_attach and an added rotation parameters. Here's the whole config for fun:

Spoiler

PART
{
	name = TitovFin1
	module = Part
	author = DylanSemrau
	MODEL
	{
		model = CNAR/Parts/V2/V2_MainFin
		rotation = 0, 0, -4.6
	}
	rescaleFactor = 1.0
	scale = 1.0
	TechRequired = start
	techtag = a4
	entryCost = 0
	cost = 40
	category = Aero
	subcategory = 0
	title = Titov Main Control Surface
	manufacturer = 
	description = 

	attachRules = 0,1,0,1,1

	node_attach = 0.1, 0.133, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1

	mass = 0.01
	heatConductivity = 0.12
	emissiveConstant = 0.95
	dragModelType = none
	maximum_drag = 0.02
	minimum_drag = 0.02
	angularDrag = 3
	crashTolerance = 6
	maxTemp = 2200
	heatConductivity = 0.01
	thermalMassModifier = 2.0
	explosionPotential = 0.01
	bulkheadProfiles = srf
	tags = v2 titov fin control surface
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleControlSurface
		useInternalDragModel = True
		dragCoeff = 0.3
		deflectionLiftCoeff = 0.3
		ctrlSurfaceRange = 20
		ctrlSurfaceArea = 0.5
		transformName = ThrustVein
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModulePartVariants
		baseVariant = BlackAndWhite
		VARIANT
		{
			name = BlackAndWhite
			displayName = V2
			primaryColor = #ffffff
			secondaryColor = #000000
			GAMEOBJECTS
			{
				Base = true
				ThrustVein = true
			}
		}
		VARIANT
		{
			name = White
			displayName = Bumper
			primaryColor = #ffffff
			secondaryColor = #ffffff
			GAMEOBJECTS
			{
				Base = true
				ThrustVein = true
			}
			TEXTURE
			{
				mainTextureURL = CNAR/Parts/V2/V2TextureBumper
				_BumpMap = CNAR/Parts/V2/V2Texture_NRM
			}
		}
	}
}

 

Spoiler

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Beetlecat

[OrdinaryKerman]

23 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

Straighten up and fly right...

  Reveal hidden contents

After spending way too long fiddling with nodes and configs, and wasting way too much of @Stone Blue's time, fins now snap to the right spacing and orientation!

The changes are in the node_attach and an added rotation parameters. Here's the whole config for fun:

  Reveal hidden contents

PART
{
	name = TitovFin1
	module = Part
	author = DylanSemrau
	MODEL
	{
		model = CNAR/Parts/V2/V2_MainFin
		rotation = 0, 0, -4.6
	}
	rescaleFactor = 1.0
	scale = 1.0
	TechRequired = start
	techtag = a4
	entryCost = 0
	cost = 40
	category = Aero
	subcategory = 0
	title = Titov Main Control Surface
	manufacturer = 
	description = 

	attachRules = 0,1,0,1,1

	node_attach = 0.1, 0.133, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1

	mass = 0.01
	heatConductivity = 0.12
	emissiveConstant = 0.95
	dragModelType = none
	maximum_drag = 0.02
	minimum_drag = 0.02
	angularDrag = 3
	crashTolerance = 6
	maxTemp = 2200
	heatConductivity = 0.01
	thermalMassModifier = 2.0
	explosionPotential = 0.01
	bulkheadProfiles = srf
	tags = v2 titov fin control surface
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleControlSurface
		useInternalDragModel = True
		dragCoeff = 0.3
		deflectionLiftCoeff = 0.3
		ctrlSurfaceRange = 20
		ctrlSurfaceArea = 0.5
		transformName = ThrustVein
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModulePartVariants
		baseVariant = BlackAndWhite
		VARIANT
		{
			name = BlackAndWhite
			displayName = V2
			primaryColor = #ffffff
			secondaryColor = #000000
			GAMEOBJECTS
			{
				Base = true
				ThrustVein = true
			}
		}
		VARIANT
		{
			name = White
			displayName = Bumper
			primaryColor = #ffffff
			secondaryColor = #ffffff
			GAMEOBJECTS
			{
				Base = true
				ThrustVein = true
			}
			TEXTURE
			{
				mainTextureURL = CNAR/Parts/V2/V2TextureBumper
				_BumpMap = CNAR/Parts/V2/V2Texture_NRM
			}
		}
	}
}

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thanks, I'll integrate these into my patches

[Dodge]

Is there something wrong with the aerodynamic of the parts?  

There is no drag difference between having the cone and not (checked by flight recorder), so the drag is incredibly high (800m/s drag loss even with the nose cone). Also, the WAC corporal rocket does not have natural gravity turn as if it is not guided by airflow and its drag is way too high too. 

Edit: False alarm, stupid me, I put an antenna between two components and that just mess up the DragCube. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Dodge

[The Dressian Exploder]

Are there any plans to continue this mod? There's a few things that I think would still be pretty neat. Namely a version of the A-4 engine without the shroud, similar to what Taerobee had back in the day. Similarly, perhaps some other early rockets like the Aerobee RTV-A2 and the R-5 could be interesting?

[Neebel]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:48 AM, The Dressian Exploder said:

Are there any plans to continue this mod? There's a few things that I think would still be pretty neat. Namely a version of the A-4 engine without the shroud, similar to what Taerobee had back in the day. Similarly, perhaps some other early rockets like the Aerobee RTV-A2 and the R-5 could be interesting?

more important would probably balancing this mod

[Beetlecat]

Speaking of parts and variants for the V2 -- wasn't there a cockpit mod developed for a winged V2 concept? I'm trying to remember where/who I saw working on that...

[MashAndBangers]

6 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Speaking of parts and variants for the V2 -- wasn't there a cockpit mod developed for a winged V2 concept? I'm trying to remember where/who I saw working on that...

 

[Beetlecat]

6 minutes ago, MashAndBangers said:

 

Yes! That's the one -- Not sure how better balanced these V2, etc. bits are, but it certainly can provide for some other options of quirky early-game rocketry, particularly slapping that cockpit and wings on the flyable A4 thingy. Bonkers stuff, but the visual progression to the X-1 is interesting.

[Gordon Dry]

Just found this tiny but annoying issue:
https://github.com/DylanSemrau/CompletelyNonAggressiveRocketry/issues/8

A short edit, just open GameData\CNAR\Parts\V2\CapellaExperiment2.cfg
and edit line 40 to

experimentID = barometerScan

 

[DaveyJ576]

I just downloaded this and flew a couple of test flights. Simple mod but pretty cool for the early stages of rocketry. I plan to kitbash a few "improvements". Might try to recover the nosecone, or add an antenna to the Corporal for data recovery.

BTW, the rocket doesn't like MechJeb. A lot of roll, pitch, and yaw oscillations. Nothing major, but more than historical. I just flew it manually and she flies well that way.

Request... is there any chance a node can be added to the bottom of the vehicle so that Modular Launch Pads can be used?

Thanks! 

Edited February 2, 2022 by DaveyJ576

[DaveyJ576]

I went back through the last several posts and incorporated the suggested balancing changes. I also added a wee bit of fuel to both the Bumper and the WAC-Corporal. The bottom node edit was also greatly appreciated. Below are the results:

Spoiler

@AlphaMensaeand his Modular Launch Pads mod provided the tower and umbilicals. Not exactly historically accurate, but you can't expect MLP to have every launch pad! 

Spoiler

It flies well and looks great! I flew it manually as the flight profile is pretty simple and MechJeb seems to have issues with this rocket. Depending on the trajectory, I got the probe to between 279 and 296 km on KSRSS. Added a few Conformal Decals, as I thought it looked a little better.

Spoiler

The upper stage with the Goo experiment. I added a set of extendable long line antennas (I think they are BDB). Anything shorter than these and you don't have the bandwidth to transmit any science before your EC runs out. BTW, another tweak I made was bumping up the EC on all three experiment cores to 30. The original 12 or 15 wasn't nearly enough to transmit science from the higher altitudes. In fact, the original amount would run out before you got to a decent altitude, even without running any science.