KSP Loading... 1.8 Preview: Service Bays Revamp

[Jestersage]

Nice... now I have to wait until it comes out before I can work on my crafts...

Edited October 3, 2019 by Jestersage

[Challyss]

5 hours ago, Ahres said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m very grateful for the continued development for KSP, but I’d really like to see a 1.875m variant for Making History. 

Yup.

5 hours ago, Barzon said:

nice, but not as good as ReStock. This is your job, put some effort in. If a group of volunteers on the internet can out do you, you're doing something wrong.

I wouldn't be so rough but well, I'm using ReStock as well so.... I don't really care about this modification anyway.

[Capt. Hunt]

3 hours ago, Tw1 said:

Why are the revamp parts so bland? The new doors are cool but those textures... Please stop. 

well, one of the common complaints about the old parts was that they didn't have a uniform look, so rockets tended to look slapped together.

[Lisias]

16 minutes ago, Capt. Hunt said:

well, one of the common complaints about the old parts was that they didn't have a uniform look, so rockets tended to look slapped together.

And now, probably, one of the future complaints will be that the new parts are all the same, looking dull and harder to identify on a hurry (when things start to explode and you want to select one the fastest you can).

There're designs of mine that copes better to the older part, there're others that probably will be improved by the new ones. It's the reason I asked above about having both.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hunt said:

well, one of the common complaints about the old parts was that they didn't have a uniform look.

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

And now, probably, one of the future complaints will be that the new parts are all the same.

Yet more proof that you can't please everybody

 

[FreeThinker]

I like the new service bay, they look much more steamlined and scalable than the old one which are 2 big advantages.

Edited October 14, 2019 by FreeThinker

[Lisias]

36 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Yet more proof that you can't please everybody

You shouldn't even try!

I value functionality and convenience over aesthetics. I play as an engineer, after all.

Nothing wrong with people that prefer beauty contests. It's just not my thing.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Lisias
Hate virtual keyboards

[Raptor9]

Yesss....YEESSS!! 

[T-Bouw]

Posted 11 hours ago, Nestor said:

11 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Can't say for sure, but SOP for Squad has always been to deprecate the old parts by hiding them rather than actually replacing them.

The new parts usually have the same name but with _v2 appended and the category set to something non-existent.

The Stayputnik for example: The old one is still there somewhere as probeCoreSphere with category = none

The new one being name = probeCoreSphere_v2

"This will be the case for this revamp."
 

So does this mean we have multiple obsolete parts being loaded into RAM for nothing? What a waste of RAM if that's the case. Resources aren't infinite.
Why keep the old parts around if a replacement arrives?
Don't get me wrong, I like the graphics updates you do, and this one also looks great, but I think optimizations should still take priority.

Edited October 3, 2019 by T-Bouw

[Tw1]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

You shouldn't even try!

This I strongly disagree with. It's true, it won't happen, but you can still find an optimal approach which suits the most. For example, they could tidy the parts up, while still keeping colour and design flare that makes the originals distinctive. 

These days, it's harder to spot specific parts in the parts list because the all look the same. I miss the quirkiness and fun they used to have. 

[Frank_G]

Awesome job and thank you very much to the Dev team.

[Fraktal]

YES!!! Thank you!

2 hours ago, T-Bouw said:

Why keep the old parts around if a replacement arrives?

Backwards compatibility with saves from previous versions.

[klgraham1013]

49 minutes ago, Fraktal said:

Backwards compatibility with saves from previous versions.

I'm one of those weirdos who thinks post 1.0 updates should never risk breaking saves.  ...but I'm also one of those weirdos who believes in finishing a product before selling it.  I'm probably just old.

[Dafni]

11 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I'm one of those weirdos who thinks post 1.0 updates should never risk breaking saves.  ...but I'm also one of those weirdos who believes in finishing a product before selling it.  I'm probably just old.

I can relate. Same here.

KSP was my first piece of software like that.

Back in the beta days I misunderstood the patches and updates as something just inherent to beta testing etc.

When 1.0 got released I thought this is it now

Oh boy

[klgraham1013]

Just now, Dafni said:

I can relate. Same here.

KSP was my first piece of software like that.

Back in the beta days I misunderstood the patches and updates as something just inherent to beta testing etc.

When 1.0 got released I thought this is it now

Oh boy

Video games are the only product we buy incomplete that we can't finish ourselves.  Imagine buying a couch where the manufacturer promised to totally send you that back rest in 6 months.  It might even recline one day, but no promises, and don't expect updates because some couch buyers might misunderstand how awesome their back rest is going to be, so instead we're just going to say nothing.  Although, we might send you a twitter link to a snap of the fabric pattern.  Let's get this hype train going!  Your back rest will arrive soon^tm!  It's going to be great!

[swjr-swis]

14 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Video games are Software is the only product we buy incomplete that we can't finish ourselves.

Corrected that for you, but yes I thoroughly dislike how it's become 'accepted' that software cannot ever be finished, feature-complete, properly documented, or reasonably bug-free on release. Over the years we have gotten more sophisticated tools, IDEs, prefab components and modules, better standard practices, a plethora of online resources, and we are drowning in processing and transmission capacity, memory and storage.. and yet product quality and reliability seem to keep going backwards instead of improving.

</rant><deep breath>

Anyway. Service bay revamp good, keeping old model as variant would certainly be nice (open bay doors have served me well as quite durable landing gear!), but please check what part of the associated code causes that excessive drag when closed and leaving the internal nodes unused. It's annoying to always need to ensure the nodes are 'plugged' just to get the low drag expected when placed between other Mk1 parts.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, klgraham1013 said:

Imagine buying a couch where the manufacturer promised to totally send you that back rest in 6 months. 

It's worse than that. Imagine buying a couch that is considered "complete" even though there's no back rest.

But you bought it because it was $20 and there's a chance they'll put a back rest on some day.

[klesh]

Very nice.  I never liked the cabinet door aesthetic of the old service bays with yellow handles, to the point of actively avoiding the part altogether.

I would add, can we please have a 1.875m version too?  It would be nice if you could continue to flush out that part size category, even if they're just a scaled up or down version of the 1.25 or 2.5m parts.  I don't think an enormous 5m version is necessary as its so booster and first-stage oriented, but 1.875m has so many applications, a service bay in this style would be great compliment to the SM-18.

 

5 hours ago, T-Bouw said:

So does this mean we have multiple obsolete parts being loaded into RAM for nothing? What a waste of RAM if that's the case. Resources aren't infinite.

Why keep the old parts around if a replacement arrives?
Don't get me wrong, I like the graphics updates you do, and this one also looks great, but I think optimizations should still take priority.

 

Eventually they get dropped.  Not sure which update it was (probably 1.7.x) they got rid of the old depriciated version of the Mk1-2 Command pod.  Its no longer there, including sorting by manufacturer etc.  Presumably they'll do the same with the rest of the depreciated parts at some point.

Edited October 3, 2019 by klesh

[Curveball Anders]

Whee! Lovely!

 

[BezKartuza]

At last!
The most useful service module 2.5 m

[KerbolExplorer]

18 hours ago, Barzon said:

nice, but not as good as ReStock. This is your job, put some effort in. If a group of volunteers on the internet can out do you, you're doing something wrong.

I agree with you to an extent a lot of mods go around the lap thousands of times in the time squad does one...

But you gotta admit this is looking good!

[Lisias]

6 hours ago, Tw1 said:

This I strongly disagree with. It's true, it won't happen, but you can still find an optimal approach which suits the most. . 

Exactly! This is what you must try to do!  Trying to please everyone is the fastest path to unplease everybody.

But in order to reach that goal, they need to know who will be unpleased by the measure (to prevent the Survivorship Bias). And then they can try something to bring them back on a workaround or something.

Practical example: I like the old part. Most of people here likes the new (no argument on that!). So, what is the most sensible decision? Push the new part, and let Lisias messing with the deprecated to dig back what he wants.  What's a way to please me anyway - besides being a bit inconvenient (but not enough to unplease me).

The path you choose to try to solve things is critical to solve that thing. There're many paths - but not all of them ends where you want.

 

[scottadges]

Nice to see updated stock parts... but...

Super (totally un-affiliated) shout-out to the team working on the Universal Storage II mod (@Paul Kingtiger)

If you like service bays, they have THE service bays to END ALL service bays. Modular! Functional! Beautiful! (I could go on and on)

[neistridlar]

18 hours ago, Barzon said:

nice, but not as good as ReStock. This is your job, put some effort in. If a group of volunteers on the internet can out do you, you're doing something wrong.

The ReStock guys are very skilled artist putting in a lot of hours every day to make it happen, sure they do it for free, but it is still an enormous amount of work. The guys at Squad are making their living from this, so time is money. So they really need to consider how much time to put in vs. how much that time is going to pay in form of new sales. The ReStock guys already got their bills payed from their jobs, so they don't necessarily have that consideration. This long into the games lifespan I'm quite frankly amazed that Squad is still finding it worthwhile to continue development.

Anyhow, I think the revamped cargo-bays are a good improvement over the old ones.

[Delay]

@Nertea has said he wished Squad to not be compared with his mod. I hope he still holds it.

The mod was made not to be better than Squad (per se), but because he didn't agree with the artistic direction KSP was headed.