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Large SRBs should have higher TWR / shorter burn time


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SRBs are great for providing a good initial kick off the pad to reduce gravity losses. Up to the Thumper they work great for this. The new, larger SRBs (plus the kickback) have such a long burn time that they don’t fit the niche as well: designs that have decent launchpad TWR end up accelerating so much towards the end of S1 that significant aero losses occur. 

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On 10/25/2019 at 11:20 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

It's actually very playable now, what's missing are just finalizing the costs for the larger ones, and I'm rather busy with 1.8 updates right now

That's ok. "You have a week to make it happen..."

:D

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On 10/29/2019 at 2:01 PM, PositronLance001 said:

Clydesdale should be nerfed!

1 hour ago, PositronLance001 said:

you can get into orbit with just clydesdale

Stock parts are OP for stock scale. :P Everyone who plays 2.5x and higher scaled games knows this.

 

On 10/25/2019 at 3:47 PM, The Aziz said:

Weell you can always remove some fuel from it so it burns out faster

Wouldn't that add to the over-thrust and dynamic pressure problems though?

On 10/25/2019 at 2:54 PM, Bill Phil said:

I think the real solution to this is thrust curves. You should be able to design thrust curves (they can be really simple curves) for the boosters on your rockets. That way you get the thrust levels you want when you want them.

Exactly. Thrust curves are the answer. The intense drop in acceleration when an SRB flames out in-game has bothered me for the longest time when I'm concerned with manned vessels or I otherwise want smooth transitions in TWR between stages. This mod is compatible with Making History and the Moar Boosters. I don't know if you can select from different thrust curves but they are applied and they will make your day. :)

 

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11 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Stock parts are OP for stock scale. :P Everyone who plays 2.5x and higher scaled games knows this.

 

Someone should make a mod that makes the stock parts feel more realistic. It would give the game a certain... I don't know what.

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5 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

Someone should make a mod that makes the stock parts feel more realistic. It would give the game a certain... I don't know what.

Ummm, you meal like this:

 

22 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Exactly. Thrust curves are the answer. The intense drop in acceleration when an SRB flames out in-game has bothered me for the longest time when I'm concerned with manned vessels or I otherwise want smooth transitions in TWR between stages. This mod is compatible with Making History and the Moar Boosters. I don't know if you can select from different thrust curves but they are applied and they will make your day. :)

Not selectable in this mod, but in my ModularSegmentedSRBs mod which is currently in final beta, the next version will have selectable thrust curves based on the grain of the SRB

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9 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

Someone should make a mod that makes the stock parts feel more realistic. It would give the game a certain... I don't know what.

These mods and an established path to realism exist already, they are called Sigma Dimensions + Rescale. The first thing to do is to up-size your universe. Once you do so, your rockets are no longer clearly large and OP for their jobs, and you grow to realize that stock scale is too small. 2.5x or 2.7x are the ideal scale for beginners and most seasoned players, and SSTO design becomes reasonably hard to accomplish. After that (at higher scales) you'll want FAR which adds a realistic aero model and ends the drag cube system. Finally (after 3.2x scale), you'll want SMURFF which deals with parts being super-heavy.

Alternatively, if you're hoping to nerf all engines so they fit better into stock scale... Uh... Have fun setting that up and actually playing with the engines afterward. For example, Skylon's SABRE operates up to Mach 5 on air, and Mach 25 is the equivalent of orbital velocity. So you'll want to nerf the RAPIER to operate up to just Mach 1.5 on air...... You can still use SMURFF at stock scale and fix the part mass thing but the rest of it...nobody's going to want to do it, to be honest.

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It's a feature, not a bug, that it's easier to get to orbit in the Kerbin universe. The game explores what space-travel might look like under those circumstances. Given how the game strains under high part counts, I don't want even bigger launchers to hoist my interplanetary ships into orbit (and if I did I'd run RSS)

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17 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

These mods and an established path to realism exist already, they are called Sigma Dimensions + Rescale. The first thing to do is to up-size your universe. Once you do so, your rockets are no longer clearly large and OP for their jobs, and you grow to realize that stock scale is too small. 2.5x or 2.7x are the ideal scale for beginners and most seasoned players, and SSTO design becomes reasonably hard to accomplish. After that (at higher scales) you'll want FAR which adds a realistic aero model and ends the drag cube system. Finally (after 3.2x scale), you'll want SMURFF which deals with parts being super-heavy.

Alternatively, if you're hoping to nerf all engines so they fit better into stock scale... Uh... Have fun setting that up and actually playing with the engines afterward. For example, Skylon's SABRE operates up to Mach 5 on air, and Mach 25 is the equivalent of orbital velocity. So you'll want to nerf the RAPIER to operate up to just Mach 1.5 on air...... You can still use SMURFF at stock scale and fix the part mass thing but the rest of it...nobody's going to want to do it, to be honest.

Absolutely. I only play at 1x size for challenges and to show that the game is too easy :D

2-4x size fits KSP Stock parts best. Burntimes, payloads and reentry becomes much more realistic. SSTOs with small payloads to LKO are still possible.

 

Besides this I also think the new boosters are out of balance.

Edited by Kergarin
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7 hours ago, Kergarin said:

Besides this I also think the new boosters are out of balance.

I don't think they are really that bad in comparison to the others.  The bigger SRBs have lower thrust-to-weight than the smaller ones, but that's what happens in real life.  Generally speaking, as a SRB gets bigger, the thrust goes up proportional to the length*diameter, but mass goes up proportional to length*diameter^2.  So as diameter gets larger, TWR goes down.  If you want really high TWR, a fatter SRB is not the answer.

One of the things my BetterSRBs mod does is to make sure all SRBs are realistically balanced in proportion to one another.  Dry mass and fuel load is computed based on the physical dimensions of the SRB.  Thrust is also computed based on physical dimensions, along with a presumed fuel grain geometry and burn rate.  Most SRBs have higher TWR than the unmodded parts, but some actually have less.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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