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Modding question.


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On 10/27/2019 at 4:08 AM, DStaal said:

The only thing we know about modding in KSP2 is that it's going to be *more* moddable than KSP1.

And there a script language for prototyping code in the games that seems to be there to allow the game to altered without restarting.

So there may be (fingers crossed) mods that don't require a restart.

 

But all purely conjecture based on comments in the dev. video

Edited by mattinoz
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On 10/27/2019 at 4:06 PM, mattinoz said:

And there a script language for prototyping code in the games that seems to be there to allow the game to altered without restarting.

So there may be (fingers crossed) mods that don't require a restart.

I was literally working on a ksp mod with that as one of the goals

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On 10/26/2019 at 1:08 PM, DStaal said:

The only thing we know about modding in KSP2 is that it's going to be *more* moddable than KSP1.

I don't remember reading that specifically; presumably that is something the new developer explicitly stated?

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15 minutes ago, Idleness said:

I don't remember reading that specifically; presumably that is something the new developer explicitly stated?

I'm trying to find the best quote on it - but basically they're fully aware of how important mods are, and have been building in modding support from the start.  I don't think it's been explicitly stated that it will be more modable - but mods are definitely part of the base design, instead of a lucky afterthought in KSP1.

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That is good news at least.  I had hoped as much; the new developer would have to be willfully blind not to realize the great and positive impact mods have had on the game.  When you crowd-source the creative aspects and let folks build in your sandbox that results speak for themselves.

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4 hours ago, Idleness said:

That is good news at least.  I had hoped as much; the new developer would have to be willfully blind not to realize the great and positive impact mods have had on the game.  When you crowd-source the creative aspects and let folks build in your sandbox that results speak for themselves.

"The technological developments made to the foundations of Kerbal Space Program 2 will build on the beloved modding capabilities of the original game, as well as deliver on the long-requested addition of multiplayer." from KSP2 landing page.

emphasis mine.

 

Not that core marketing promises mean much but to me this means Mods in KSP1 will either be possible or not required as covered by stock game. Plus entirely new things will work as well.

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On 11/5/2019 at 9:18 AM, Idleness said:

I don't remember reading that specifically; presumably that is something the new developer explicitly stated?

Yes. We asked them specifically about this, and they were emphatic that it will be at least as moddable as KSP1. They said they're very aware that they're building a platform, not just a game, and that they want people to be playing it for years and years to come.

They got this. It's going to be as moddable as heck. And I'm saying this as an avid modder who was fortunate enough to be able to sit down with them and grill them on the topic.

I'm looking forward to this. :)

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1 hour ago, Snark said:

Yes. We asked them specifically about this, and they were emphatic that it will be at least as moddable as KSP1. They said they're very aware that they're building a platform, not just a game, and that they want people to be playing it for years and years to come.

They got this. It's going to be as moddable as heck. And I'm saying this as an avid modder who was fortunate enough to be able to sit down with them and grill them on the topic.

I'm looking forward to this. :)

It's a huge relief to have a modder sign off on the modding capabilities of KSP 2. Thank you.

Do you see the PartModule system getting overhauled in KSP 2? I know at this time you're currently maintaining Missing History and I'd love to see it ported to KSP 2.

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14 minutes ago, prestja said:

It's a huge relief to have a modder sign off on the modding capabilities of KSP 2. Thank you.

Well, be careful about using the term "sign off"-- I haven't actually gotten hands-on with the code and don't actually know what modding KSP2 will be like, firsthand.  It's just that I strongly believe it'll be a good story, based on what I've seen and from talking to the people who make it.  They strike me as sincere, competent, and with a strong motivation to make it really nicely moddable, and that's good enough for me.

6 minutes ago, prestja said:

Do you see the PartModule system getting overhauled in KSP 2? I know at this time you're currently maintaining Missing History and I'd love to see it ported to KSP 2.

I have zero details about exactly how the modding architecture will look like, but the whole "PartModule" system works so well that I'd be astonished if they don't use that, or something very much like it.  That's just speculation on my part, though, I don't actually know (nor do I know of anyone outside Star Theory who does).

I expect that no mod in KSP1 will work as-is with KSP2.  It's a completely new platform written from scratch, from the ground up, so I expect it to require all-new mods to work with it.  I expect it to have a thing like PartModules (just because that seems like such an effective design it's hard for me to picture doing something else), and maybe they'd even call it "PartModule" if it serves pretty much the same role... but even if they did, it wouldn't be the same "PartModule" implementation we have in KSP1, and I wouldn't expect any KSP1 mod to work.

So my expectation is that KSP2 will start out essentially tabula rasa with no mods available on launch day, and that it will take time for mod authors to create brand-new mods for it. That said, though, I'm hopeful that porting equivalent functionality across (e.g. "I authored a certain mod for KSP1, and I'd like to create more-or-less-the-same mod for KSP2") would be a lot faster than authoring the original mod was in the first place.

Since they're still going to be Unity-based, then I'm hopeful that porting models across (and textures, etc.) should hopefully not be too hard, so I would expect that "part mods" (i.e. ones that are just models/textures and config, with no actual code in them) will probably be the quickest and easiest to port across, but that's just a guess.  We'll have to wait and see.

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20 minutes ago, Snark said:

Well, be careful about using the term "sign off"-- I haven't actually gotten hands-on with the code and don't actually know what modding KSP2 will be like, firsthand.  It's just that I strongly believe it'll be a good story, based on what I've seen and from talking to the people who make it.  They strike me as sincere, competent, and with a strong motivation to make it really nicely moddable, and that's good enough for me.

I have zero details about exactly how the modding architecture will look like, but the whole "PartModule" system works so well that I'd be astonished if they don't use that, or something very much like it.  That's just speculation on my part, though, I don't actually know (nor do I know of anyone outside Star Theory who does).

I expect that no mod in KSP1 will work as-is with KSP2.  It's a completely new platform written from scratch, from the ground up, so I expect it to require all-new mods to work with it.  I expect it to have a thing like PartModules (just because that seems like such an effective design it's hard for me to picture doing something else), and maybe they'd even call it "PartModule" if it serves pretty much the same role... but even if they did, it wouldn't be the same "PartModule" implementation we have in KSP1, and I wouldn't expect any KSP1 mod to work.

So my expectation is that KSP2 will start out essentially tabula rasa with no mods available on launch day, and that it will take time for mod authors to create brand-new mods for it. That said, though, I'm hopeful that porting equivalent functionality across (e.g. "I authored a certain mod for KSP1, and I'd like to create more-or-less-the-same mod for KSP2") would be a lot faster than authoring the original mod was in the first place.

Since they're still going to be Unity-based, then I'm hopeful that porting models across (and textures, etc.) should hopefully not be too hard, so I would expect that "part mods" (i.e. ones that are just models/textures and config, with no actual code in them) will probably be the quickest and easiest to port across, but that's just a guess.  We'll have to wait and see.

It's good to hear the PartModule system is well received by modders. Like you said, it would make the most sense for PartModule (or something like it) to be in KSP2. Star Theory has expressed a strong desire for greater modding capabilities. I struggle to come up with what they could possibly add beyond a Lua scripting interface and maybe stock Kopernicus. I'm wondering if some sort of in-game PartModule editor is on the table.

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50 minutes ago, prestja said:

I struggle to come up with what they could possibly add beyond a Lua scripting interface and maybe stock Kopernicus.

Those two, plus I wouldn't mind "stock ModuleManager", i.e. a stock ability to write config patches so that we wouldn't need a thing like ModuleManager to enable that.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got all three of the above, though I suspect it'll come down to how much time they have available before launch.

Aside from that, there are areas of the game that are currently very difficult to mod because they're kinda hard-wired.  For example, you can't extend action groups beyond the built-in ones, since they're designed around a C# enum, which isn't moddable. (Yes, you can write a mod that acts like it's adding extra action groups, but it's not actually doing that, so other mods wouldn't be able to interoperate with it.)  There are plenty of other examples.  Would be nice to see areas of the game that haven't been moddable up to now become more so.

Whatever they do, though, I'll be happy as long as they keep it at least up to the KSP1 bar.  Anything above that is gravy, for me.  I'm 100% convinced that they'll meet the KSP1 bar, and I strongly suspect that we'll have a fair number of other goodies, too, but don't know what probability to assign-- we'll just have to wait and see.

54 minutes ago, prestja said:

I'm wondering if some sort of in-game PartModule editor is on the table.

I'd be astonished if there were anything of the sort-- that's the sort of feature that would be a big work item to add, for a (relatively) small benefit.  My guess would be not.

Time will tell, though.  :)

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