Base Building for Potatoes?

[Multivac]

Hi! I'm looking for advice on which mods I should try out (if any). I love KSP, but my computer is a potato. (Integrated graphics from Intel, 4 GB of RAM, Windows 8.1 x64) It actually runs unmodded, vanilla KSP reasonably well (or in a playable and still quite fun state, at least) as long as I keep the graphics settings low -- I've even been able to launch large space planes and the like; flying something with too many parts leads to some lag and low frame rates, but not to the point of making the game unplayable, and any simpler craft work with no trouble. But, I am guessing a lot of the bigger mods will be beyond my capabilites. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some recommended mods given this limitation.

In particular, I've been interested in trying out a life support mod, and some sort of base building / colony-building mod to go along with it. RoverDude's MKS looks very intriguing from what I've read about it, but it also looks like it will make my computer undergo rapid unscheduled disassembly if I try to run it. Which is a shame, because I really like the idea of a complex, ambitious colony-building project, and also really like the sound of USI life support -- I like that it adds homesickness and the need for extra living space. (I've always felt bad about leaving Kerbals in small, cramped command pods for weeks or months at a time, and I like the idea of having that reflected in the game!)

I suppose I could install USI life support without the rest of the Umbra mods, and try to find a less complex base-building focused mod... But are there any at all that I could have a hope of running semi-smoothly, and that would work with USI's LS? This is where I could use some guidance.

I've also seen something called "MKS Lite" mentioned on the forum a couple of times, which seems potentially relevant, but it looks like it was maybe abandoned? And perhaps it would have still been too much for my computer to handle.

Or perhaps I can get MKS or another "ambitious" mod and then edit the installation to cut it down and make it more handle-able for my PC? I think I've seen a few people mention that when installing a mod, you can delete individual parts from it to keep it from slowing down the game too much, but as you can probably guess, I have no experience playing with mods and have no real idea how to do this.

Also, are there any mods that might actually make the game run faster, thus maybe compensating for the slow-down bigger mods might cause?

And are there any non-colony-related mods that I should still get, that might not slow my system down too much? (In particular, I was thinking of trying out the Alarm Clock mod and the Docking Port Alignment Indicator -- would I be correct to assume that even my computer should be able to handle these?..)

So, yes. If anyone could recommend any mods that focus on life support and the construction of outposts and/or orbital stations, and that could realistcally be playable and enjoyable on my terrible PC, that would be amazing, and I'd be grateful for the help. I'm also quite interested in hearing about any other low-spec-friendly mod recomendations anyone might have! Thank you for any help or advice y'all might be able to offer!

[Cavscout74]

I've used USI-LS before & was mostly happy with it, but it had issues with another mod I was running, so I switched back to Snacks for my life support. 

Kerbal Planetary Base Systems might be worth a try for base building, and it has patches to use any of the life support mods (and has parts that only show up with LS mods - like greenhouses & recyclers).  There are a fair number of parts in it that could probably be deleted to reduce the impact as well.   I haven't actually tried MKS, so I can't compare the two.  There are a few other small base building mods, but I can't think of names right now & I haven't used them to give advice or even tell you if they're up to date.

1 hour ago, Multivac said:

And are there any non-colony-related mods that I should still get, that might not slow my system down too much? (In particular, I was thinking of trying out the Alarm Clock mod and the Docking Port Alignment Indicator -- would I be correct to assume that even my computer should be able to handle these?

Kerbal Alarm Clock is one of my vital mods - if you are going to have a busy space program with multiple craft going outside Kerbal's SoI, I don't see how people live without it.  Shouldn't have too much of an effect on performance.  I haven't used the alignment indicator, so I can't comment on it.

1 hour ago, Multivac said:

Or perhaps I can get MKS or another "ambitious" mod and then edit the installation to cut it down and make it more handle-able for my PC? I think I've seen a few people mention that when installing a mod, you can delete individual parts from it to keep it from slowing down the game too much, but as you can probably guess, I have no experience playing with mods and have no real idea how to do this

Rather ironically, the easiest way to trim down larger parts mods is to use yet another mod:  Janitor's Closet.  You can block or prune parts - blocking them just keeps you from seeing them, pruning removes them from being loaded by the game but can be reversed if you realize you had a craft using one of the pruned parts.  On the plus side, once done pruning unwanted parts, you can always delete Janitor's closet if you want.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Cavscout74

[zer0Kerbal]

hyperspace

heappadder

SNACKS! might be the most lightweight lifesupport mod.

SimpleLogistics for landed bases

SSPXr, SSTULabs

Konstruction (just keep the construction ports and the konstruction.dll) if you want to 'weld' segments into one permanent vessel.

SimpleConstruction (using EL) if you choose to build in situ.

 

http://umbraspaceindustries.github.io/UmbraSpaceIndustries

 

[DStaal]

I think MKS or Pathfinder would likely actually help performance somewhat - both allow for disconnected bases, and KSP *can* multi-thread multiple ships.  There will be a bit of overhead for their respective logistics systems, but not huge amounts.

What I would stay away from (unfortunately) in conjunction with either is Kopernicus.  Unless they've fixed something recently, it plus either of the above slows things to a crawl, even on decent systems.

[Multivac]

Awesome! Thank you all for the helpful replies!

21 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

I've used USI-LS before & was mostly happy with it, but it had issues with another mod I was running, so I switched back to Snacks for my life support. 

 

21 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

SNACKS! might be the most lightweight lifesupport mod.

Snack sounds adorable, and like a very Kerbal-appropriate way of abstracting life support! I think I'll give USI's life support a try, though (hopefully I won't have it conflict with anything...) because of that "living space" system that I want to try... It's good to know that there are multiple base-building mods that can work with USI-LS! If it turns out that my system can't handle USI's mod, Snacks will definitely be my "Plan B."

21 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

Kerbal Alarm Clock is one of my vital mods - if you are going to have a busy space program with multiple craft going outside Kerbal's SoI, I don't see how people live without it.

I've just been using maneuver nodes, and checking in at the Tracking Station periodically, since it semi-helpfully lists the time left until the next node for all your missions. Then I'd decide whether I have enough time left to launch a new mission or do whatever else, or whether I might as well go fly the mission with the next upcoming node, and time-warp to it... Of course, I had to actually remember to scroll though my list of missions at the tracking station, and no, I wasn't always successful in doing that...

21 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

Rather ironically, the easiest way to trim down larger parts mods is to use yet another mod:  Janitor's Closet. 

I  just looked this up, and it does look like a very intuitive way to prune mods -- I love the idea of being able to do that from right inside of the VAB/SPH. However, it looks to be out of date... I'm on version 1.8.1, and it looks like this mod hasn't been updated yet. Should I still give it a try, and hope that it still works? I don't want to downgrade KSP itself to a previous version unless I really have to...  Still, it looks awesome. Heck, there's probably a few vanilla parts that I never really use, and would happily get rid of. Maybe I can just wait and hope linuxguru updates it sometime soon.

21 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

hyperspace

heappadder

SimpleLogistics for landed bases

SSPXr, SSTULabs

Konstruction (just keep the construction ports and the konstruction.dll) if you want to 'weld' segments into one permanent vessel.

SimpleConstruction (using EL) if you choose to build in situ.

Thank you, these are all pretty cool, though I'm not techy enough to really understand what the first two do (and I don't think I have enough RAM for that second one to be very useful anyway, sadly...) Simple Construction in particular sounds awesome, though; I've always wanted to be able to build spacecraft on other planets/moons, but I had no idea a mod existed that could make it so (seemingly?) easy to do! Very cool. And it seems that this, plus Konstruction's port, = bases that can gradually expand themselves! Very cool. Your SimpleLogistics mod looks quite interesting too!

4 hours ago, DStaal said:

I think MKS or Pathfinder would likely actually help performance somewhat - both allow for disconnected bases, and KSP *can* multi-thread multiple ships.  There will be a bit of overhead for their respective logistics systems, but not huge amounts.

What I would stay away from (unfortunately) in conjunction with either is Kopernicus.  Unless they've fixed something recently, it plus either of the above slows things to a crawl, even on decent systems.

Huh! Well, this gives me some cause for hope, definitely. I am still not sure whether I should try MKS (I think I may prefer it over Pathfinder, from what I've read of both thus far) or go with Stockalike Station Parts (sans IVA, I guess...)

Thank you for the heads up about Kopernicus. It's a shame -- it does look like a very cool mod.

Thank you to everyone who replied! Lots of cool mod info here.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Multivac

[zer0Kerbal]

1 hour ago, Multivac said:

don't think I have enough RAM for that second one

should still help with low memory systems. I'd suggest trying it, and seeing if it helps. If it doesn't - ditch it.

hyperspace helps the game load faster - often significantly faster.

[Multivac]

3 minutes ago, zer0Kerbal said:

should still help with low memory systems. I'd suggest trying it, and seeing if it helps. If it doesn't - ditch it.

hyperspace helps the game load faster - often significantly faster.

Thank you, I will give this a try.

Another question: Is it recommended to use CKAN for mods, or should I attempt to install them manually? I doubt I will ever have very many mods running...

[zer0Kerbal]

2 hours ago, Multivac said:

CKAN for mods

I would use it. it has several valuable features such as making sure things are installed correctly, notification (and installation) of updates, and allows for command line switches such as what I use for my grand-potato (decade+ old nb) running a Kerbalism 1.7.3 career with 225+ mods, and ~18,000 module manager patches (even now some graphic enhancement mods, like ReStock).

Quote

KSP_x64.exe -single-instance -nolog -force-d3d11 -popupwindow -adapter1

also great handy tool because it often has the links to the forums/github for each of the mods, and their dependencies/exclusions etc.

still, personal preference.

Edited November 5, 2019 by zer0Kerbal

[DStaal]

I'd recommend at least learning how to install mods manually, even if you do use CKAN - not all mods are on CKAN, and CKAN isn't always perfect.  It can mess up mod installs, or think mods are compatible/incompatible with your version of KSP when they aren't, etc.  On that front, I'd also recommend KSP-AVC and MADLAD - together they'll make sure you have the most current versions of your mods, and that they're installed/working correctly.  Both are fairly lightweight and are basically done with everything they're doing by the time the loading screen is finished.

Oh, and you asked about MKS Lite: MKS Lite as a separate mod was a very short-lived thing, as it was essentially all the MKS tools with a slightly different config file.  You can recreate it by changing the preference settings in MKS to disable machinery, IIRC.  (Regardless - all the changes that were MKS Lite can be set using the preference settings in MKS, even if I can't recall for certain exactly what those changes are.)

[Cavscout74]

16 hours ago, Multivac said:

I  just looked this up, and it does look like a very intuitive way to prune mods -- I love the idea of being able to do that from right inside of the VAB/SPH. However, it looks to be out of date... I'm on version 1.8.1, and it looks like this mod hasn't been updated yet. Should I still give it a try, and hope that it still works? I don't want to downgrade KSP itself to a previous version unless I really have to...  Still, it looks awesome. Heck, there's probably a few vanilla parts that I never really use, and would happily get rid of. Maybe I can just wait and hope linuxguru updates it sometime soon

LGG has somewhere close to 200 mods he maintains, so he'll get it sooner or later.  Sometimes people will post on a mod's thread whether or not it's working after an update.  I'm still using 1.7.3 until some other stuff updates, so I don't have an answer for you on Janitor's Closet

 

As for life support mods, USI-LS should work fine for you.  The incompatibility I mentioned was another mod's greenhouses not only not working with USI (it had patches for Snacks & TAC-LS but not USI), it wouldn't even load the part with USI-LS installed.  At first I thought I messed up a module manager patch I wrote to patch that greenhouse to use USI-LS, but even when I deleted the patch it still wouldn't load.  After some more messing about, I gave up & went back to Snacks.  But I did like the habitation time idea.

[Multivac]

I've sort-of kind-of got it working, woo! I ended up using CKAN, and installing the USI life support mod, the Stockalike Station Parts, Simple Construction and Konstruction's ports (deleting everything else from that mod's folder except its .dll and, just because it scared me, the database file), and I also got the Kerbal Inventory System and the Community Tech Tree! Woo. It takes forever to start up, but nothing crashes, and the game is playable. There's some slowdowns in the VAB especially now, I assume from all the extra parts, but hopefully that will get better as I figure out which parts to prune -- I also got Janitor's Closet! I did end up getting heappadder as well, and it turns out to come with a recommended config file for systems of 4 to 6 GB RAM, so I used that. Hopefully it's helping!

15 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

I would use it. it has several valuable features such as making sure things are installed correctly, notification (and installation) of updates, and allows for command line switches such as what I use for my grand-potato

7 hours ago, DStaal said:

I'd recommend at least learning how to install mods manually, even if you do use CKAN - not all mods are on CKAN, and CKAN isn't always perfect.

I actually did try to do it manually at first, with the Community Tech Tree mod (I couldn't find it in CKAN until I figured out how to make it search for mods compatible with previous KSP versions). I put the mod's stuff into the Game Data folder and everything, but when I tried to use CKAN to install a couple of the other mods I wanted, it didn't want to recognize that I already had the Tech Tree, for some reason. So, I ended up doing everything through CKAN once I figured out I could include previous versions of KSP in there. DStaal might be happy to know that I did end up playing around with the mods' directories later on to remove all the parts of Konstruction that I didn't want, though, and I managed not to break the game while doing this! :D

2 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

I don't have an answer for you on Janitor's Closet

I tried it, and I believe I can confirm that it's working in 1.8.1! :D Thanks for pointing me towards it, I think this will be a very useful mod indeed. :) And yes, I went with the USI-LS, and no conflicts or problems so far!

I do have one issue -- well, more of a matter of preference, really, with Stockalike Station Parts Redux: It adds a bunch of "cargo container" parts that can store ore and a heck of a lot of other resources, and these also have "planetary warehouse" and "local warehouse" options. I haven't played around much with these yet, but I assume this is like Simple Logistics' and MKS' ability to "teleport" resources between structures that aren't physically docked together? Can anyone confirm? And if so, is there a way to "permanently" turn these options off -- i.e. so that even the option to turn them back on doesn't appear in game? (Like, maybe some... file that gives the parts this ability that I can delete from the mod's folder, or even something I can edit in the parts' files themselves with Notepad or something?) The reason is that I've thought about it, and decided that regardless of costs to my system and added work, I'd prefer to actually have to dock things together (even landed ones!) to transfer resources. Docking things is too big a part of the game, and I've spent too much time working on it in un-modded KSP, so it'd feel a bit too "cheaty" for me now to gain the ability to instantly zap stuff between one station module/ship/whatevs and another... Plus, I got "Breaking Ground," and the new robotics parts can actually make it somewhat easier to dock things together on the surface of a planet, and I want to keep playing around with that! I realise this is a pretty specific request, though, so I'll understand if no-one has a particular answer on how to do this!

In either case, thank you again, everyone, for the help and information! I feel much better prepared to continue exploring the world of KSP mods now. :)

[DStaal]

The one worry with USI-LS on a potato machine is that habitation means you need bigger ships.  Bigger ships is more parts, and high part counts is what slows down KSP.  I don't think the mod itself will be to much for you machine, but you'll be more likely to have ships that push your part count limits.

The 'Planetary Warehouse' and 'Local Warehouse' options in SSPX is actually support for MKS's warehouse options, and not directly part of SSPX.  Removing it from those parts in particular is easy - remove the patch files.  But you'll still have the warehouse options on other parts that support MKS - including the MKS parts.

[Multivac]

28 minutes ago, DStaal said:

The one worry with USI-LS on a potato machine is that habitation means you need bigger ships.  Bigger ships is more parts, and high part counts is what slows down KSP.  I don't think the mod itself will be to much for you machine, but you'll be more likely to have ships that push your part count limits.

I will definitely keep this in mind, and if it does get to be too much for my potato, I'll switch over to SNACKS life support. In the past, though, I've often looked at the need to keep part counts low as an extra challenge! "Hmm, maybe if I move these RCS thrusters from here to there, I won't need as many... Maybe these two solar panels can be replaced with a single large one in another location..." and so on. I guess attempting to play with this mod will be a good test of my abilities!

32 minutes ago, DStaal said:

The 'Planetary Warehouse' and 'Local Warehouse' options in SSPX is actually support for MKS's warehouse options, and not directly part of SSPX.  Removing it from those parts in particular is easy - remove the patch files.  But you'll still have the warehouse options on other parts that support MKS - including the MKS parts.

Thank you, I'll try removing those patch files and see if that gets rid of the options! And if I can't get it to work, I guess it's not a big deal, since I'm not installing the MKS mod for now.

I'm now also playing around with multiple installations to try out different combinations of mods, trying to see which ones cause the most problems for my system, and which ones I like the most... Of course, this creates the new problem of taking up space on my potato's hard drive, which I've had for years and as a result have already cluttered with tons of junk. It's all a careful balancing act...

Also, this community is awesome. I didn't really expect this much information and this many replies when I started the topic! I greatly appreciate the help!

[DStaal]

A lot of us have been there, done that on running this game on low-end computers - I ran it for quite a while on a 2011 i3, and on a 2008 Xenon.  (It was faster on the Xenon, but that machine also had an SSD.)  The one nice thing about KSP on potato machines is that it's all about what you find acceptable - KSP will slow down if it starts getting load, but it'll never stop and say 'I don't have the CPU, sorry' - it just keeps running as fast as it can.

[zer0Kerbal]

8 hours ago, DStaal said:

SSD

BIG difference on a SSD.

you can always look in the KSP.log for 'Elapsed time' to help you track how long it takes to start the game. Any txt editor (notepad, adam, npp) will open it.

examples:

Spoiler

[LOG 14:30:19.643] ExpansionsLoader: Expansions loaded in 0.109s
[LOG 14:30:19.644] Loading Systems: Elapsed time is 37.05667s

[LOG 19:15:56.254] ExpansionsLoader: Expansions loaded in 54.502s
[LOG 19:15:56.254] Loading Systems: Elapsed time is 616.4328s

first one is from my dev install - which I use to well, dev.

second one is from my career+Kerbalism with >225 mods (on my decade old great-grand-spud).

 

Am glad you got this working. Happy exploding oops crashing oops - flying!

Edited November 6, 2019 by zer0Kerbal