rotating wings forward and backwards and COL question.(tri wing. Asymetric but symetric wings.)

[Arugela]

I have a tri wing design. If I have one wing perfectly center, one above a rotated down slightly, and another below rotated up the same amount It does not recenter the COL. I'm doing a spaceplane SSTO. I tried to make the top wing tilt up a little and the bottom wing tilt down the same amount. This makes the back of the wings touch slightly.

The problem is it's not keeping the COL centered back on the COM like it was previously. Before I was flying with it all perfectly inline. If I make both go up or down in the same direction the COL stays inline for the most part. But if you make them symetrical in the opposite directions it does not. I'm not too worried about forward and backwards motion. The problem is the COL moves up or down from the COM center position. I would think moving both symetrically in opposite directions would recenter it. I know it's moving in a circle slightly. I would think this would create an equalibrium though. I guess I could just make it slant up or down and be done with it but I was hoping to do this.

The other problem may be that the wing is not perfectly symmetrical back to front though. The back is slightly cut off but it's centered on the plane at the widest point so the engines don't burn it up. It's like a double(Back and front) delta wing with the back not completely there. I think this could be part of the problem cut I can't figure out why it does not balance out when both are done evenly. The other problem is that I have to do with without the octegon things set that adjust it for you evenly. I have to use the circle settings to make finer adjustments and the game does not have the ability to see exactly what this is set to or a way to make sure this is even. I think I got it even but it's too far off and seems to go up too much to make sense. I'll get some pics in a bit if needed.

I normally have this set with all wings perfectly level. This works ok. But I was hoping to slant them to get a wing setup for all situations. I have a tri wing so why not angle one center, one up, and one down slightly. I was hoping to get more lift  on level flight. Or get better lift in an all around sense because of the lack of lift potentially when prograde.

Edit:

This is all on top of the fact that not using snap ensures the items are not symetrical perfectly. My wings are all copy pasts so they are identical. Nothing is different.

Pics:

https://imgur.com/a/jwUaiZ1

Craft:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6c18eevhf2y0z8/KB-52 1_8_1_2686 x108 8_5.craft?dl=0 <- Normal flyable version/configuration. adjusted wings in flyable configuration. COL up and back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7eli5kmscnpj3n/KB-52 1_8_1_2686 x108 8_5 test.craft?dl=0 <- Aerotest version. The one the pics are taken from.

Craft engines are adjusted to put COM on COL. Some of the plane won't make sense. It's adjusted for demonstration purposes.

To adjust the COM use adjust on the MK3 to MK2 adapter between the two large cargo bays just in front of the MK2 inline cockpit. it's a large mass of engines I moved to control the COM to the COL. They normally stack on the wings.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Arugela

[Klapaucius]

Can you post a picture or upload the craft file? Without seeing what is going on, it is hard to offer solutions.

[Arugela]

Pics up.

https://imgur.com/a/jwUaiZ1

Craft file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6c18eevhf2y0z8/KB-52 1_8_1_2686 x108 8_5.craft?dl=0

Craft engines are adjusted to put COM on COL. Some of the plane won't make sense. It's adjusted for demonstration purposes.

To adjust the COM use adjust on the MK3 to MK2 adapter between the two large cargo bays just in front of the MK2 inline cockpit. it's a large mass of engines I moved to control the COM to the COL. They normally stack on the wings.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Arugela

[Klapaucius]

I don't think it is the wing per se.  I will have to download the file later, but my hunch is that as you angle the wings down you are altering the angle of the flaps. Very small changes can have drastic effects.Since your flaps already had a slight downward bend and because they are at an angle on the wing, by lowering the wing, you have altered the trim.  I would tweak with each set individually and see if you can get that to work.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Klapaucius

[Arugela]

I removed the flaps and it does not seem to be the issue. It move it forward a hair but not very far.

Edit:

I wonder if it's the COL not being the same potentially in delta wings. I've read that if you reverse them it's more towards to front or back. Maybe angling them does something weird. But it's still should be close enough to straight to not move it I would think. Unless the difference in snap being off make it move up a little.

I think it's from the uneven nature of not using snap. I changed the wings with snap on and it's angles the COL backwards and moves it forwards, but it keeps it center mid line with the COM. That may be the problem. Still not sure why it angles it. I would think it would still recenter itself since they are exactly opposite.

Pic in the pic section.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Arugela

[Klapaucius]

26 minutes ago, Arugela said:

I removed the flaps and it does not seem to be the issue. It move it forward a hair but not very far.

Okay. Will check it out later when I have some time. Now I'm really curious 

[Klapaucius]

14 hours ago, Arugela said:

Pics up.

https://imgur.com/a/jwUaiZ1

Craft file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/337wlf2jju9z01u/KB-52 1_8_1_2686 x108 8_5.craft?dl=0

Craft engines are adjusted to put COM on COL. Some of the plane won't make sense. It's adjusted for demonstration purposes.

To adjust the COM use adjust on the MK3 to MK2 adapter between the two large cargo bays just in front of the MK2 inline cockpit. it's a large mass of engines I moved to control the COM to the COL. They normally stack on the wings.

I had some time this morning to download your craft, but it is no longer in the dropbox.

[Arugela]

Use the one in the OP. I changed the folder location and it messed it up. The aero test one has the stuff for it.(Edit: NVM, Fixed)

I think the misalignment was from the lack of local/absolute. I some of it the same. But the COL is still up and back.

For the first craft I managed to get the wings symetrical. It had to do with useing abolute vs local. Still don't know which is which because I can't tell if the button means it's local or changed to local...

Craft:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6c18eevhf2y0z8/KB-52 1_8_1_2686 x108 8_5.craft?dl=0 <- Normal flyable version/configuration. adjusted wings in flyable configuration. COL up and back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7eli5kmscnpj3n/KB-52 1_8_1_2686 x108 8_5 test.craft?dl=0 <- Aerotest version. The one the pics are taken from.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Arugela

[Klapaucius]

I'm stumped at the moment, but I did notice that the plane with the angled wings has 16 more parts. Where are these? Are they affecting the weight?

Also, what kind of computer do you have?  My framerate tanked trying to fly that.  

[Arugela]

Mines old. I'm just bored. My game goes at 5 seconds per second before stuttering and then stutters are 1-1.2 seconds something per second. It's pretty slow. Actually takes me 2 hours or so to fly to orbit. So, if we ever get super planets. I'm prepared! 8)

The extra parts is from the back wings being partially taken off. One is a modified normal version. Normally it's straight wings. The slanted wings might fly worse but the parts count problem can effect performance. So, I don't know if it's game performance or plane performance atm. Have to wait for improvements or if they ever go over the game and remove more garbage collection stutter. Old engines have something wrong that comes out in high parts count.  Goes away now if you turn them off.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Arugela