What Would We Need To Build A Floating Balloon Magnetic Railway?

[Spacescifi]

 

Take a rocket and speed it off a roller coaster track and through lightweight magnetic rings suspended by balloons. Tether the balloon/magnetic ring network to the ground.

The objective, a floating magnetic railway that can be constructed on the ground and float upward into high atmosphere.

Once there, rockets or spacecraft could be magnetically accelerated into space.

What challenges would need to be overcome?

Magnets powerful enough to accelerate the weight of the rocket thru eac succeeding ring. Tethers strong enough to not break.

Honestly I say we could do this with modern technology. Save propellant on lightweight rockets and spacecraft at least.

You may discuss the challenges and viability of this concept.

[sevenperforce]

The magnetic rings would be accelerated backward if the payload was being accelerated forward, causing them to run into each other. You'd need some sort of rigid mechanism between the rings to hold them apart.

[Meecrob]

Even if the rings could be rigidly tethered, I'm not sure a rocket could withstand being pummeled by hypersonic shockwaves each time it passes through a ring.

[Spacescifi]

3 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

The magnetic rings would be accelerated backward if the payload was being accelerated forward, causing them to run into each other. You'd need some sort of rigid mechanism between the rings to hold them apart.

Not necessarily... that is an engineering problem which is solvable.

It just requires a fundamental redesign.

Make the floating launch network only vertical.

Station upright rocket below it on a large magnet base. Make the bottom of rocket also magnetic so that it lifts off the magnetic base, then use the ringed vertical tethered network to ascend up into the upper atmosphere where the air is sparse.

The big magnet base would repel rings headed it's way. And I hope and presume one could design the magnetic accelerator rings so that they repel rings from one another.

Power and cooling, if solved, would be all we need for it to works.

Physics allows for it.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

9 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

13 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

The magnetic rings would be accelerated backward if the payload was being accelerated forward, causing them to run into each other. You'd need some sort of rigid mechanism between the rings to hold them apart.

Not necessarily... that is an engineering problem which is solvable.

Takes popcorn...

 

[farmerben]

I had imagined flying through the rings almost horizontally as the second stage of a gun/track launcher.

One limit of track launch is that going faster than Mach 3 near sea level will melt the nose of vessel.  Although artillery shells can be launched at over Mach 5 (presumably melting the nose off a giant artillery shell is no big deal)

Using a launch track to launch at Mach 3 on a parabolic trajectory with height of over 20 km is feasible. 20-40 km altitude is possible for hydrogen balloons, but it would require a very low payload fraction for each balloon to go that high.  

If the rings are far apart they don't need any special support.  The vessel needs to be able to steer toward the next ring or abort it.  The force of drag on the balloon due to atmosphere is the force we react against to boost the vessel.  The vessel is travelling faster than the speed of sound, so it won't experience the echo of its own shockwave.  

Such a system is a way to boost velocity to over Mach 7 but we need to get above hydrogen balloon altitude to go much faster.  So a rocket is still required to get to orbit.

Arranging all the loops vertically is something I had not thought of before.  That could launch a vessel completely out of the atmosphere, but not fast enough to escape Earth's SOI.  So this still requires a rocket.  

I had imagined rings far enough apart that we can neglect their interaction with each other, and each ring flips polarity as the vessel passes through it.  I'm not sure it is possible to get this effect and levitate the rings magnetically at the same time,  I'd have to see an animation or something.  

From an engineering perspective, it looks like we have something that is low precision, and low durability.  But hey, the physics allows for it.

Edited November 9, 2019 by farmerben

[Spacescifi]

4 hours ago, farmerben said:

I had imagined flying through the rings almost horizontally as the second stage of a gun/track launcher.

One limit of track launch is that going faster than Mach 3 near sea level will melt the nose of vessel.  Although artillery shells can be launched at over Mach 5 (presumably melting the nose off a giant artillery shell is no big deal)

Using a launch track to launch at Mach 3 on a parabolic trajectory with height of over 20 km is feasible. 20-40 km altitude is possible for hydrogen balloons, but it would require a very low payload fraction for each balloon to go that high.  

If the rings are far apart they don't need any special support.  The vessel needs to be able to steer toward the next ring or abort it.  The force of drag on the balloon due to atmosphere is the force we react against to boost the vessel.  The vessel is travelling faster than the speed of sound, so it won't experience the echo of its own shockwave.  

Such a system is a way to boost velocity to over Mach 7 but we need to get above hydrogen balloon altitude to go much faster.  So a rocket is still required to get to orbit.

Arranging all the loops vertically is something I had not thought of before.  That could launch a vessel completely out of the atmosphere, but not fast enough to escape Earth's SOI.  So this still requires a rocket.  

I had imagined rings far enough apart that we can neglect their interaction with each other, and each ring flips polarity as the vessel passes through it.  I'm not sure it is possible to get this effect and levitate the rings magnetically at the same time,  I'd have to see an animation or something.  

From an engineering perspective, it looks like we have something that is low precision, and low durability.  But hey, the physics allows for it.

 

Going straight up is the fastest way to get to space... I was thinking of using the ballloon floating network for getting small payload spacecraft into space using less propellant. Maybe even smaller SSTO'S.

I do not know if the propellant savings is enough to justify the system, since the rocket still must fight gravity to reach orbital velocity.... it just does'nt have to deal with the lower atmosphere anymore, which is also the region that requires the most propellant in the first place.

I like your analysis though. I think a floating network that was tethered at an angle would be more useful, since one could actually use it to to achieve some of the sideways velocity needed for orbit.

But you are right, rockets are still needed in the end.

 

BONUS: You coukd use the angular tethered system to SLOW spacecraft during reentry so long they have enough propellant to fly through the rings.

Hmmm... suddeny winged spacecraft may make a comeback.

What should I call this system?

Since I don't think I it is similar to other pooular ideas like a space elevator or a space fountain (whatever that is).

 

Magnets I think are awesome though, and the future of spaceflight, if designed by people like me... is very much magnetic.

 

m.youtube.com/watch?v=L

Edited November 9, 2019 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

How to refill the balloons with gas? It's venting away.

[Spacescifi]

46 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

How to refill the balloons with gas? It's venting away.

 

The balloon network is tethered to the ground for several reasons... refilling gas among them.

Several kilometer long hoses could pump fresh gas as needed. I believe the balloons could be pumped via hoses from a facility on the ground. Beyond that make the balloons of materials that leak the least.... if the balloons can be made to not leak at all make it so.

And the balloons must be massive.

Still easier than other non-rocket launch assist schemes I have seen... since the weight is so low weight it can actually work... nor does it have to fight the lower atmosphere.

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Spacescifi

[farmerben]

22 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

 

The balloon network is tethered to the ground for several reasons... refilling gas among them.

Several kilometer long hoses could pump fresh gas as needed. I believe the balloons could be pumped via hoses from a facility on the ground. Beyond that make the balloons of materials that leak the least.... if the balloons can be made to not leak at all make it so.

And the balloons must be massive.

Still easier than other non-rocket launch assist schemes I have seen... since the weight is so low weight it can actually work... nor does it have to fight the lower atmosphere.

 

Hydrogen and helium leak no matter what you do because of quantum tunneling.  Methane and steam have about half the buoyancy, and they can be held by polyethylene very well.  

The barrage balloons of WWII flew up to a maximum of 1500 m.  These were nylon balloons with hydrogen gas and steel tethers.  That is a fairly good standard around which to ask what if we used twice the volume and half the tether weight... x10, x100, etc.