Jump to content

S4 efficiency: where can you go with one big tank.


Pds314
 Share

Recommended Posts

The goal of this challenge is to go on as impressive a trip as possible using only the S4-512 tank as fuel. The largest tank in the Making History expansion and current heaviest part in the game.

Rules:

  • No mining.
  • You may have as much or little Electric Charge and Ablator as desired.
  • You may start with the tank less than full if you want.
  • No Ore, Xenon, Monopropellant, or excess Liquid Fuel and Oxidizer is permitted.
  • No glitch-powered reactionless drives.
  • No fuel transfer to other tanks by any mechanism.
  • A Kerbal has to land somewhere to count. The fuel tank itself does not.
  • Abusing EVA packs is fine.
  • All Kerbals on the mission must be recovered.
  • All DLCs are allowed.
  • No cheats.
  • No mod parts. No FAR.

Scoring:

Each celestial body landed on will be counted as a specific number of points:

  • 1 point: Mun, Minmus, Ike, Gilly, Bop, Pol.
  • 2 points: Duna, Dres.
  • 3 points: Vall, Laythe.
  • 5 points: Moho, Eeloo (You'll definitely need some fancy flying to do these, if it's even possible).
  • 10 points: Tylo, Eve, Jool (Yeah right).
Edited by Pds314
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Muetdhiver said:

What do you mean by reactionless drives ? 

Are plane parts allowed (props and engines) ?

Yes. Plane parts are allowed. By reactionless drives I mean glitch drives that work without an atmosphere or any propellant.

Edited by Pds314
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

Great, this makes things more interesting. I may have a plan for Moho but it hinges on fancy design and flying.

I'm excited to see any attempt at Moho here because:

1. It takes a lot of delta-V to slow down at, even if you use gravity assists to get there.

2. Kerbals can't reach orbit there under jetpack power there.

3. It takes a lot of delta-V to return from.

Edited by Pds314
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

No Ferram Aerospace? Then be prepared to have this challenge destroyed by KSP's stock drag model being abused.

 

I fully intend that. Any competitive entry is pretty likely to abuse the nuances of stock aero and occlude parts and nodes that don't look occluded. But since it's based on number and location of landings that just means people will do better. Not max out the challenge. 

Edited by Pds314
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

We'll see. I made a 100t roton style rocket, but 300t will become difficult.

Great minds think alike :). The same rocket but without rotors had 4340 dV  left when in orbit. But, I paid good money for that expansion pack so lets (ab)use it! This one got to almost 5000m with rotors and  had 4803 dV in orbit (there are 5 nukes in the bottom fairing). I think I've reached almost 10km with rotors before but that might take a lot more tinkering. I still haven't really figured out how to adjust rotor angles and such...  I could probably visit many of the small moons with this but I haven't decided what to actually do yet.

mIN5NNJ.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, dvader said:

Great minds think alike :). The same rocket but without rotors had 4340 dV  left when in orbit. But, I paid good money for that expansion pack so lets (ab)use it! This one got to almost 5000m with rotors and  had 4803 dV in orbit (there are 5 nukes in the bottom fairing). I think I've reached almost 10km with rotors before but that might take a lot more tinkering. I still haven't really figured out how to adjust rotor angles and such...  I could probably visit many of the small moons with this but I haven't decided what to actually do yet.

mIN5NNJ.png

Are the nukes really more efficient than just having fuel efficient LFO engines with more oxidizer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dvader said:

Great minds think alike :). The same rocket but without rotors had 4340 dV  left when in orbit. But, I paid good money for that expansion pack so lets (ab)use it! This one got to almost 5000m with rotors and  had 4803 dV in orbit (there are 5 nukes in the bottom fairing). I think I've reached almost 10km with rotors before but that might take a lot more tinkering. I still haven't really figured out how to adjust rotor angles and such...  I could probably visit many of the small moons with this but I haven't decided what to actually do yet.

mIN5NNJ.png

I'm sorry but how do you get 4800 vacuum dv? With a single nuclear engine a command seat and a full tank my vacuum dv would be no more than 4000

 

Edit: or are you allowed to drain some oxidiser in the vab?

Edited by Flying dutchman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so my first attempt to just get a test vehicle in orbit worked pretty well....

I still wouldn't even dream of landing on a moon or planet with it yet, but like, it did reach interstellar space with quite poor flying and fuel to spare, using a mix of LV-N and Wolfhound engines. I think I can pretty comfortably say it has 5 km/s of mixed delta-V in orbit, maybe a bit more if I had burned the oxidizer out first.

The craft has very, very little drag. It can easily circularize its orbit so that it's apoapsis is 100 km while the craft itself is at periapsis under 30 kilometers without too much loss of delta-V. In fact, it may even be worth doing my ejection burn before leaving the atmosphere to save on gravity losses.

One thing I am considering, based on how much fuel it drinks using the jets to get up to speed in the lower atmosphere, is adding strap-on EDFs for takeoff up to mach 0.95, I'm also definitely gonna add some Verniers for RCS, as well as proper reaction wheels, and a much larger battery than the cockpit has, and maybe some RTGs or something so it recovers between being used.

jv13t6h.png
iY1Kk1z.png
szZnNea.png
3u5OYx4.png
iLc8krF.png
TjoM0JH.png

Edited by Pds314
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Are the nukes really more efficient than just having fuel efficient LFO engines with more oxidizer?

Yes, I haven't checked the calculations but the VAB tells me I get 2182 m/s in the LFO stage (starting with only 14080 Ox) and 5980 m/s in the nuke stage. With the same setup and a single Wolfhound I get 7566 m/s from a full tank. Of course, a single Wolfhound won't be able to lift the rocket so that is a very very best case estimate.

8 hours ago, Flying dutchman said:

Edit: or are you allowed to drain some oxidiser in the vab?

I don't know but I did :) Since it was OK to start with a non-full tank I assumed it was allowed. I don't mind if it isn't though so @Pds314 can decide how he wants the challenge.

I also tried a space-plane but with only Kerbalian success. But, I will try again! Next time with propellers.

nqxSx1a.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, dvader said:

Yes, I haven't checked the calculations but the VAB tells me I get 2182 m/s in the LFO stage (starting with only 14080 Ox) and 5980 m/s in the nuke stage. With the same setup and a single Wolfhound I get 7566 m/s from a full tank. Of course, a single Wolfhound won't be able to lift the rocket so that is a very very best case estimate.

I don't know but I did :) Since it was OK to start with a non-full tank I assumed it was allowed. I don't mind if it isn't though so @Pds314 can decide how he wants the challenge.

I also tried a space-plane but with only Kerbalian success. But, I will try again! Next time with propellers.

nqxSx1a.png

Yes you can partially drain oxidizer from the tank if you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought I'd just give Eeloo a quick shot and see how far I could go with my 4800 dV. It turned into hours of interplanetary pinball but in the end I made it to Eeloo and back home. Going to Eeloo wasn't so hard but going home was since I had not really planned the trip. I just wanted to see how far I could get. After landing on Eeloo and going up into orbit again, I had 370 dV left. I spent 300 on a Jool intercept and then used the remaining 70 dV for a lot of time consuming pinball maneuvers. It took more real world hours than I care to admit but I finally made it back to Kerbin.

This is what I like about the KSP forum. You think you've seen it all but then someone comes up with a new fun and entertaining challenge that just makes you push the limits a little bit more. Well done @Pds314 ! :)

 

Spoiler

XrovsRW.jpg

The plan was simple. Swing by Eve and Kerbin as many times as takes to get to Eeloo orbit.

K2hU5nd.jpg

It only took one Eve and one Kerbin flyby to reach Eeloo orbit.

6sMSb1U.jpg

I adjusted the orbit to arrange for an intercept in 35 years. Thanks BetterTimeWarp, I could not have done it without you!

mmkgjHG.jpg

I got to Eeloo with only 3446 dV left. After achieving orbit I had 2000 dV left. I figured I'd go for a landing anyway but didn't think it'd be enough to go home... turns out I was wrong.

m0PZXjR.jpg

The rocket wasn't designed for easy landing...

WB8Ki4B.jpg

Three attempts later and I had actually landed!

Going home was the hard part. After achieving orbit I had 370 dV left. I spent 300 dV to get a Jool intercept about 160 years later...

Yg7b5yr.jpg

Just swinging by Jool wasn't enough to bring my Pe down to Eve but with a double Jool+Tylo I got the Pe down to below Eve.

3FtlrJu.jpg

But that was actually the easy part. I don't know why but I have a much harder time using gravity assist go back to Kerbin. It is not the first time I get stuck trying to figure out how to go home on  a minimal budget. I don't know how many Eve and Kerbin flybys there was but I guess about 3xEve and 3xKerbin.

bhTc47i.jpg

First Kerbin flyby was way too fast to even consider aerobraking (I don't know if this is Eve or Kerbin)

PJgWULf.jpg

Another pass by Even and Kerbin and the speed was much lower but still too high.

vpxgtkG.jpg

A few more flybys and I finally had a decent Kerbin intercept.

mXmLlLg.jpg

I had not actuallly designed for it but I realised I had the remains of a faring below the command pod so I just let the tank burn up in the atmosphere. The explosions look so much better now than in old KSP.

EbbwF5y.jpg

The fairing made a huge difference. It is very heat tolerant and it is large so it slowed down the command pod fast.

S2SjYe7.png

And that's it! Valentina is finally back from Moho! (She brought her own parachute, just to be safe).

 

There are a few more pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/nEOS1SH

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, dvader said:

I thought I'd just give Eeloo a quick shot and see how far I could go with my 4800 dV. It turned into hours of interplanetary pinball but in the end I made it to Eeloo and back home. Going to Eeloo wasn't so hard but going home was since I had not really planned the trip. I just wanted to see how far I could get. After landing on Eeloo and going up into orbit again, I had 370 dV left. I spent 300 on a Jool intercept and then used the remaining 70 dV for a lot of time consuming pinball maneuvers. It took more real world hours than I care to admit but I finally made it back to Kerbin.

This is what I like about the KSP forum. You think you've seen it all but then someone comes up with a new fun and entertaining challenge that just makes you push the limits a little bit more. Well done @Pds314 ! :)

 

  Hide contents

XrovsRW.jpg

The plan was simple. Swing by Eve and Kerbin as many times as takes to get to Eeloo orbit.

K2hU5nd.jpg

It only took one Eve and one Kerbin flyby to reach Eeloo orbit.

6sMSb1U.jpg

I adjusted the orbit to arrange for an intercept in 35 years. Thanks BetterTimeWarp, I could not have done it without you!

mmkgjHG.jpg

I got to Eeloo with only 3446 dV left. After achieving orbit I had 2000 dV left. I figured I'd go for a landing anyway but didn't think it'd be enough to go home... turns out I was wrong.

m0PZXjR.jpg

The rocket wasn't designed for easy landing...

WB8Ki4B.jpg

Three attempts later and I had actually landed!

Going home was the hard part. After achieving orbit I had 370 dV left. I spent 300 dV to get a Jool intercept about 160 years later...

Yg7b5yr.jpg

Just swinging by Jool wasn't enough to bring my Pe down to Eve but with a double Jool+Tylo I got the Pe down to below Eve.

3FtlrJu.jpg

But that was actually the easy part. I don't know why but I have a much harder time using gravity assist go back to Kerbin. It is not the first time I get stuck trying to figure out how to go home on  a minimal budget. I don't know how many Eve and Kerbin flybys there was but I guess about 3xEve and 3xKerbin.

bhTc47i.jpg

First Kerbin flyby was way too fast to even consider aerobraking (I don't know if this is Eve or Kerbin)

PJgWULf.jpg

Another pass by Even and Kerbin and the speed was much lower but still too high.

vpxgtkG.jpg

A few more flybys and I finally had a decent Kerbin intercept.

mXmLlLg.jpg

I had not actuallly designed for it but I realised I had the remains of a faring below the command pod so I just let the tank burn up in the atmosphere. The explosions look so much better now than in old KSP.

EbbwF5y.jpg

The fairing made a huge difference. It is very heat tolerant and it is large so it slowed down the command pod fast.

S2SjYe7.png

And that's it! Valentina is finally back from Moho! (She brought her own parachute, just to be safe).

 

There are a few more pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/nEOS1SH

 

 

Wow. I'm very impressed you managed to land on Eeloo. And that gravity assist route home is crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I made it to LKO (100x100) with 5.5 km/s.

I first tried several flavours of roton type rockets, but the performance was quite meh and stability was very questionable.

Spoiler

sA1uzT9.png

Then I tried a plane to little avail. So I cut the wings... and went 100% kerbal with moar ramjet boosters XD

Spoiler

tgqWam7.png

Result is a nice 5.5K in orbit. Likely enough for a moho thing.

Spoiler

9wr0EcB.png

TWR is atrocious, but who cares, right ?

Edited by Muetdhiver
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

Then I tried a plane to little avail. So I cut the wings... and went 100% kerbal with moar ramjet boosters XD

That was so Kerbal I had to try it myself.

I used RAPIERS instead for the higher max thrust at a higher mach. I was shot out into space without even using the closed cycle mode and had about 5200m/s in orbit. I emptied all the oxygen from the tank and gradually lowered the ascent trajectory to make the most out of the engines and...

Spoiler

Y7nAV5f.png

The TWR is nothing special at first. But...

Spoiler

lyNvamW.png

If you stay low enough, the engines suddenly kick in and give a huge boost. Thats about 7g or so!

Spoiler

SD87Gju.png

It doesn't last for very long since the altitude gets too high and the oxygen drops. It is pretty close to burning up but it keeps on accelerating up to about 20km and I think it stopped at about 1700 m/s.

Spoiler

tNwjsy1.png

I'm in orbit with 7531 m/s left! Eve is still out of the question though...

Edited by dvader
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...