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[1.12+] Less Real Than Real(ism) - RP-1 With Less 'R' [v2.0.6]


Pehvbot

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so I tested with and without SMURF. I built a rocket similar to a Falcon 9. It's night and day. with SMURFF, it's very complicated to get into orbit at an altitude of 150 km while with LRTR it's playable without having to add booster packs to a falcon 9 to send a Crew Dragon into orbit.

I don't know if this is possible but, do you have the possibility to add in the config file, a value to enable or disable the resize of the models while maintaining the performance to correspond with RSS? Or why not make it a separate mod? I searched a lot and no mod offers this. keeping the scale with the Kerbals would be okay.

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3 hours ago, heraros said:

so I tested with and without SMURF. I built a rocket similar to a Falcon 9. It's night and day. with SMURFF, it's very complicated to get into orbit at an altitude of 150 km while with LRTR it's playable without having to add booster packs to a falcon 9 to send a Crew Dragon into orbit.

I don't know if this is possible but, do you have the possibility to add in the config file, a value to enable or disable the resize of the models while maintaining the performance to correspond with RSS? Or why not make it a separate mod? I searched a lot and no mod offers this. keeping the scale with the Kerbals would be okay.

It's actually a bit tricky.  It's pretty easy to change the rocket performance but that doesn't change the amount of fuel in a fuel tank.  You would still need oversized tanks to have enough fuel to launch things.  In theory you can hack the LRTR rescale code to do everything (increase thrust, add fuel, etc) except change the size but this creates all kinds of knock-on problems with other mods.  This could never be an 'official' option.

But if you are feeling adventurous you can try replacing the contents of the GameData/LRTR/rescale/rescale.cfg file with the following.  This is entirely untested.  I have no idea if it will work.  You will need to remove SMURFF (be sure to remove the SMURFF folder from GameData).

//
//engines
//
//fix engine clusters, otherwise clustered engines get over boosted (see below)
@PART[*]:HAS[#lrtr_engineCluster[*],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEngines*]]
	{
		@maxThrust /= #$/lrtr_engineCluster$
		@UPGRADES
		{
			@UPGRADE,*
			{
				@maxThrust /= #$/lrtr_enineCluster$
			}
		}
	}
    @MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]
    {
        @SUBTYPE,*:HAS[@MODULE]
        {
            @MODULE
            {
                @DATA:HAS[#maxThrust]
                {
                    @maxThrust /= #$/lrtr_enineCluster$
                }
            }
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
	{
		@CONFIG,*
		{
			@maxThrust /= #$/lrtr_engineCluster$
		}
	}
}
//
//rather than just boosting thrust linearly, this creates a curve to make powerful engines even more powerful
//this helps create closer to real world values for stock engines
//equation:  (maxThrust / (maxThrust + X) + 1) * maxThrust * 2.56
//gives 1-2 multiplier as maxThrust increases with X determaining the steepness of curve
//set in LRTR/rescale/engines.cfg
//
//parts without lrtr_thrustCurve don't get an extra boost to thrust
@PART[*]:HAS[~lrtr_thrustCurve,!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEngines*]]
    {
        @maxThrust *= 2.56
        @UPGRADES
        {
            @UPGRADE,*
            {
                @maxThrust *= 2.56
            }
        }
	}
	
    @MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]
    {
        @SUBTYPE,*:HAS[@MODULE]
        {
            @MODULE
            {
                @DATA:HAS[#maxThrust]
                {
                    @maxThrust *= 2.56
                }
            }
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
    	@CONFIG,*:HAS[#maxThrust]
    	{
			@maxThrust *= 2.56
	   	}
    }
}
//all other parts
@PART[*]:HAS[#lrtr_thrustCurve[*],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{  
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEngines*]]
	{
	    %thrustN = #$maxThrust$
	    %thrustD = #$maxThrust$
        @thrustD += #$/lrtr_thrustCurve$
	    @thrustN /= #$thrustD$
	    @thrustN += 1
	    @maxThrust *= #$thrustN$
		@maxThrust *= 2.56
		!thrustN = DEL
		!thrustD = DEL
		@UPGRADES
		{
		    @UPGRADE,*:HAS[#maxThrust]
		    {
                %thrustN = #$maxThrust$
        	    %thrustD = #$maxThrust$
	            @thrustD += #$/lrtr_thrustCurve$
        	    @thrustN /= #$thrustD$
	            @thrustN += 1
        	    @maxThrust *= #$thrustN$
		        @maxThrust *= 2.56
        		!thrustN = DEL
		        !thrustD = DEL
    		}
		}
	}
	
    @MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]
    {
        @SUBTYPE,*:HAS[@MODULE]
        {
            @MODULE
            {
                @DATA:HAS[#maxThrust]
                {
                    %thrustN = #$maxThrust$
            	    %thrustD = #$maxThrust$
	                @thrustD += #$/lrtr_thrustCurve$
        	        @thrustN /= #$thrustD$
	                @thrustN += 1
            	    @maxThrust *= #$thrustN$
	    	        @maxThrust *= 2.56
            		!thrustN = DEL
		            !thrustD = DEL
                }
            }
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
    	@CONFIG,*:HAS[#maxThrust]
    	{
			%thrustN = #$maxThrust$
			%thrustD = #$maxThrust$
			@thrustD += #$/lrtr_thrustCurve$
			@thrustN /= #$thrustD$
			@thrustN += 1
			@maxThrust *= #$thrustN$
			@maxThrust *= 2.56
			!thrustN = DEL
			!thrustD = DEL
    	}
    }
}
//solid
//numbers chosen to get near real world values matching existing motors.  No real math, just guesswork
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[SolidFuel],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@mass *= 4.08
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEngines*]]
	{
		@atmosphereCurve
		{
			@key,0 ^= :0 ::
			@key,0 *= 1.4
			@key,0 ^= :^:0 :
			@key,1 ^= :1 ::
			@key,1 *= 1.4
			@key,1 ^= :^:1 :			
		}
	}
}
@PART[*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#EngineType[SolidBooster]]
	{
		@maxThrust *= 2
		@UPGRADES
		{
			@UPGRADE,*:HAS[#maxThrust]
			{
				@maxThrust *= 2
			}
		}
	}
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]:HAS[#configuration[SolidFuel]]
    {
    	@CONFIG,*
    	{
    		@maxThrust *= 2
    	}
    }
}
//jets
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngine*]:HAS[@PROPELLANT[IntakeAir]],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngine*]:HAS[@PROPELLANT[IntakeAir]]
	{
		@maxThrust *= 0.5
		@atmosphereCurve
		{
			@key ^= :^0 ::
			@key ^= : 0 0::
			@key *= 0.75
			@key ^= :^:0 :
			@key ^= :$: 0 0:
		}
	}
}
//cleanup
@PART[*]:HAS[#lrtr_thrustCurve[*]]:AFTER[zLRTR]
{
    !lrtr_thrustCurve = DEL
}
@PART[*]:HAS[#lrtr_engineCluster[*],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:AFTER[zLRTR]
{
	@MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleEngines*]]
	{
		@maxThrust *= #$/lrtr_engineCluster$
		@UPGRADES
		{
			@UPGRADE,*
			{
				@maxThrust *= #$/lrtr_enineCluster$
			}
		}
	}
    @MODULE,*:HAS[#name[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]
    {
        @SUBTYPE,*:HAS[@MODULE]
        {
            @MODULE
            {
                @DATA:HAS[#maxThrust]
                {
                    @maxThrust *= #$/lrtr_enineCluster$
                }
            }
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
	{
		@CONFIG,*
		{
			@maxThrust *= #$/lrtr_engineCluster$
		}
	}

}
@PART[*]:HAS[#lrtr_engineCluster[*]]:AFTER[zLRTR]
{
	!lrtr_engineCluster = DEL
}
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleRoboticServoRotor]]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleRoboticServoRotor]
	{
		@maxMotorOutput *= 4
	}
}

//tanks and resources
@PART[*]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
	{
		@amount *= 3.6
		@maxAmount *= 3.6
	}
	@RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
	{
		@amount *= 3.6
		@maxAmount *= 3.6
	}
	@RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
	{
		@amount *= 1.25 // higher dry fraction
		// Note: this means that volume utilization will only be 1/3 that of a regular
		// LFO tank....
		@maxAmount *= 1.25
	}
	@RESOURCE[XenonGas]
	{
		@amount *= 4
		@maxAmount *= 4
	}
	@RESOURCE[Ore]
	{
		@amount *= 3.6
		@maxAmount *= 3.6 // assume same density as LF/OX
	}
	@RESOURCE[IntakeAir]
	{
		@amount *= 4
		@maxAmount *= 4
	}
	@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
	{
		@amount *= 4
		@maxAmount *= 4
	}
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel] //in line with real world fuel loads
	{
		@amount *= 5.78
		@maxAmount *= 5.78
	}
	@MODULE[ModuleFuelTanks]:HAS[#type[Solid]]
	{
		@volume *= 1.61
	}
	@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#baseVolume]
	{
	    @baseVolume *= 3.6
	}
	@MODULE[ModuleFuelTanks]:HAS[#volume]
	{
		@volume *= 3.6
	}
	
	@MODULE[Configure]
	{
		@SETUP,*
		{
			@RESOURCE,*
			{
				@amount *= 3.6
				@maxAmount *= 3.6
			}
		}
	}
}
// decrease resource costs
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Oxidizer|LiquidFuel|SolidFuel|MonoPropellant|XenonGas]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@unitCost *= 0.1
}
// Fuel tanks, lower dry mass but larger volume
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[LiquidFuel],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[ModuleEngines*],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@mass *= 2.4
}
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[fuelSwitch]],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[ModuleEngines*],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRRescale]
{
	@mass *= 2.4
}

// scale up intakes
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake],!MODULE[ModuleTagNotRescaled]]:FOR[zLRTR]
{
	//@mass *= 2.56
	@MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]
	{
		@area *= 2.56
	}
}

This will also be overwritten every time you update LRTR so keep a copy of it handy.  Don't be surprised if mods like Procedural fuel tanks and RealFuels break.  This patch definitely voids the LRTR warranty so good luck and let me know if you survive :-)

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15 minutes ago, Sahadara said:

Will this only rescale parts from the supported mod packs. If I for instance install Near Future and Far Future Propulsion, which are not listed as supported, will the parts be rescaled?

In theory it rescales everything, but sometimes mod packs use custom modules which cause problems.  Near future works but I haven't checked Far Future yet.  It's on my list and I hope to get to it sometime soon. 

 

 

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im having this problem some parts arent scaling up (docking ports,structural parts) and i was testing launching a SLS from ReDirect mod and the main tank / engines have a burn time of only 1:30 minutes upon 6/7 minutes for the stock scale and the SRBS have an insane thrust for a 3600 kn srb its scaling up to 33000 kn

 

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1 hour ago, Kochi said:

im having this problem some parts arent scaling up (docking ports,structural parts) and i was testing launching a SLS from ReDirect mod and the main tank / engines have a burn time of only 1:30 minutes upon 6/7 minutes for the stock scale and the SRBS have an insane thrust for a 3600 kn srb its scaling up to 33000 kn

 

Do you have a mod list?  Some parts mods need to be fixed by hand and a couple simply won't rescale.  I can take a look and roll any changes into the next update.   Direct links to the mods would be very helpful, especially if they are not on CKAN.

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2 minutes ago, Pehvbot said:

Do you have a mod list?  Some parts mods need to be fixed by hand and a couple simply won't rescale.  I can take a look and roll any changes into the next update.   Direct links to the mods would be very helpful, especially if they are not on CKAN.

its like 20 parts spread around 50 mods but this scale problem isnt the main problem the tank and srb thing is the main problem

 

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15 minutes ago, Kochi said:

its like 20 parts spread around 50 mods but this scale problem isnt the main problem the tank and srb thing is the main problem

 

Understood.  I think I know what the problem is with the SLS tank but I'll need the actual mod(s) to fix it.  It's also helpful so I can properly place the parts in the tech tree and look for any hidden issues.   

Personally I run a VERY lean install and rarely use part mods, so knowing what folks are using is super helpful.  Listing your entire mod list is quite useful so don't worry if you think it's too much info.   Otherwise just the problem part mod itself is fine.

My guess is the tank is using a custom cryo fuel (hydrolox) rather than the KSP standard lqdfuel/oxydizer.  If so, the tank size is increased but the fuel load isn't.  This means the tank has only 0.28 of the fuel it needs, which matches the burn time you gave.  This is fairly easy to fix.

For the SRBs that's a likely an artifact of how I've dealt with SRBs.  The script gives them a very high thrust compared to the real world motors, but with 'normal' amounts of fuel.  This is to account  for some KSP related SRB problems without having to hand tweak every single motor. 

Normally this means SRBs will run at around 40% of their maximum thrust to get a real world burn time.  The real world SLS SRBs run at around 16,000kN so this sounds about right.  If you set it to 40-50% you should get the expected 120 second burn time.  Side Note:  I don't even try for real world part numbers, just reasonable ones.  You probably won't be able to make an exact recreation, just something that could reasonably exist.

 

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11 hours ago, Pehvbot said:

Understood.  I think I know what the problem is with the SLS tank but I'll need the actual mod(s) to fix it.  It's also helpful so I can properly place the parts in the tech tree and look for any hidden issues.   

Personally I run a VERY lean install and rarely use part mods, so knowing what folks are using is super helpful.  Listing your entire mod list is quite useful so don't worry if you think it's too much info.   Otherwise just the problem part mod itself is fine.

My guess is the tank is using a custom cryo fuel (hydrolox) rather than the KSP standard lqdfuel/oxydizer.  If so, the tank size is increased but the fuel load isn't.  This means the tank has only 0.28 of the fuel it needs, which matches the burn time you gave.  This is fairly easy to fix.

For the SRBs that's a likely an artifact of how I've dealt with SRBs.  The script gives them a very high thrust compared to the real world motors, but with 'normal' amounts of fuel.  This is to account  for some KSP related SRB problems without having to hand tweak every single motor. 

Normally this means SRBs will run at around 40% of their maximum thrust to get a real world burn time.  The real world SLS SRBs run at around 16,000kN so this sounds about right.  If you set it to 40-50% you should get the expected 120 second burn time.  Side Note:  I don't even try for real world part numbers, just reasonable ones.  You probably won't be able to make an exact recreation, just something that could reasonably exist.

 

GameData: https://imgur.com/ofwMcJ8

(this doasnt have LRTR because it's a backup)
as u can see in the game data the mod that I use for the SLS is Redirect who uses a mixture of LH2/oxidizer I'm going to test if deleting the fuel and fuel consumption solves the problem

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12 hours ago, Pehvbot said:

Understood.  I think I know what the problem is with the SLS tank but I'll need the actual mod(s) to fix it.  It's also helpful so I can properly place the parts in the tech tree and look for any hidden issues.   

Personally I run a VERY lean install and rarely use part mods, so knowing what folks are using is super helpful.  Listing your entire mod list is quite useful so don't worry if you think it's too much info.   Otherwise just the problem part mod itself is fine.

My guess is the tank is using a custom cryo fuel (hydrolox) rather than the KSP standard lqdfuel/oxydizer.  If so, the tank size is increased but the fuel load isn't.  This means the tank has only 0.28 of the fuel it needs, which matches the burn time you gave.  This is fairly easy to fix.

For the SRBs that's a likely an artifact of how I've dealt with SRBs.  The script gives them a very high thrust compared to the real world motors, but with 'normal' amounts of fuel.  This is to account  for some KSP related SRB problems without having to hand tweak every single motor. 

Normally this means SRBs will run at around 40% of their maximum thrust to get a real world burn time.  The real world SLS SRBs run at around 16,000kN so this sounds about right.  If you set it to 40-50% you should get the expected 120 second burn time.  Side Note:  I don't even try for real world part numbers, just reasonable ones.  You probably won't be able to make an exact recreation, just something that could reasonably exist.

 

Ok I found out why the tank is having a short burn time it's because the rescale configs rescaled the oxidizer but not the LH2  I'm doing some static fires and its always left 2/3 of the oxidizer 

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1 hour ago, Pehvbot said:

Thanks!  I'll take a look at this in my evening (I'm in Seattle).  This should be a fairly easy fix and I'll put it in the next update I'm working on.

an extra fix that u should do is fix the thrust rescale beacuse the engines have almost 2x the right amount of thrust resulting in short burn times and high TWR

 

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a

20 minutes ago, Kochi said:

an extra fix that u should do is fix the thrust rescale beacuse the engines have almost 2x the right amount of thrust resulting in short burn times and high TWR

 

a SSME with 3MN of thrust ? the bdb engines are actualy good the f1 have 6.4-7.2 MN of thrust but the stock engines and other ones are way off

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21 hours ago, Kochi said:

a SSME with 3MN of thrust ? the bdb engines are actualy good the f1 have 6.4-7.2 MN of thrust but the stock engines and other ones are way off

The reSTOCK SSME is now closer to the real world engine, although it is slightly more powerful (done on purpose for game balance).  I also fixed the docking port scaling problem you mentioned.  Thanks for your help with this! 

One thing to keep in mind:  this mod isn't intended to be real world accurate.  RealismOverhaul will do that far better than I ever could.   Mostly I try for game balance and a sense of immersion for the career game.  If there's are specific parts you think break game balance or immersion let me know.  Feedback like this is very helpful.

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  • 3 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Patata_exe said:

I have installed the mod + all the dependencies, but the tech tree has lots of nodes that dont have parts. Any help?

That's normal.  The RP-1 tech tree is fairly extensive and if you have just the basic install there are empty gaps.  If you start adding various parts mods it will begin to fill out.

The career game is balanced with the full tech tree so (at least for me) it tracks very closely with real time events.   A good check to make sure it's working as intended:  The LV-T30 Reliant shows up in Basic Rocketry and the LV-T45 Swivel shows up in 1956-7 Orbital Rocketry but Early Rocketry is empty.

I play a pretty barebones career and don't use extra parts mods so in my 'head canon' I see the empty nodes as technologies that don't lead directly to parts, but are needed to enable later technologies and parts.

I *think* that Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes works but it will unbalance the game a little.

Oh and one more thing.  The game pretty much requires either Making History or Restock+ to add some pods, engines, and tanks.   Restock is a great mod in any case and highly recommended.

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2 hours ago, mateusviccari said:

Did anyone manage to make a Saturn V or Space Shuttle  using this mod and stock parts, or maybe some of the supported parts mods?

Well I did, but I built the mod :-)  You need either Making History or Restock+ but with that you can do a credible Saturn V/Apollo mission.

zLOcc3g.png

 

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I have lots of mods installed. Bluedog db, all tantares mods, FASA, near future stuff...

Is there any way to get the RO parts without installing the whole mod?                                                                                                                      

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9 hours ago, Pehvbot said:

Well I did, but I built the mod :-)  You need either Making History or Restock+ but with that you can do a credible Saturn V/Apollo mission.

zLOcc3g.png

 

I have making history, my Saturn V looks pretty much just like yours, but no matter what I can never put it to orbit. It gets just too heavy for the first stage. Would you please share your craft?

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6 hours ago, Patata_exe said:

I have lots of mods installed. Bluedog db, all tantares mods, FASA, near future stuff...

Is there any way to get the RO parts without installing the whole mod?                                                                                                                      

Sadly no.  RO is basically an all-or-nothing deal and it would take way too much work to fit these parts back into regular KSP.

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2 hours ago, mateusviccari said:

I have making history, my Saturn V looks pretty much just like yours, but no matter what I can never put it to orbit. It gets just too heavy for the first stage. Would you please share your craft?

Sure, but I don't have a current save that has one.   I can put one together in sandbox but it'll take a few days before I can get to it.  In the mean time a few 'tricks' that may make it work:

  • Use 6 Mastodon engines on the first stage instead of 5.  The KSP version of the F-1 is slightly smaller and weaker than the real F-1 when scaled up and I don't want to hand tune any of the parts (I'm lazy and it's just too much work).  This gives a good approximation for the S-IC stage.  Try for around 2m30s burn time.
  • Use the Wolfhound for the S-II and S-IVB stages instead of the Skiff.  The Skiff looks like a J-2 but it's performance doesn't match it at all.
  • The S-IC plus S-II stages should give you about 8000m/s of dV and the S-IVB should give you about 4500dV (use vacuum for all values)

I'll post a link to the craft file when I can.

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