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RP-1 Realistic Progression One for KSP 1.12.3


pap1723
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Hey! It might have looked like a mistake, but it was actually my genius subconsciousness giving some hints! :sticktongue:

 

If I can launch a rocket weighting over 20 tons from a launchpad limited to 20 tons, just by having the rocket refuelled while on the launchpad, then I can also deliberately move a "dry" rocket from the VAB. (The KSC inspectors - I hope they don't read this forum - are controlling just the mass on the VAB doors, right?)

I just need to wait a few seconds until my tanks are full, and then I can launch probably some 25 tons monster without spending any funds on a larger launchpad!

 

Technically it's cheating, but the defence of the Motherland requires no less! :cool:

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1 hour ago, Kazkar said:

If I can launch a rocket weighting over 20 tons from a launchpad limited to 20 tons, just by having the rocket refuelled while on the launchpad, then I can also deliberately move a "dry" rocket from the VAB. (The KSC inspectors - I hope they don't read this forum - are controlling just the mass on the VAB doors, right?)

The upgraded pads also come with larger size limits. 20mx25m at 20t => 25mx33m at 60t

55 minutes ago, Kazkar said:

Technically it's cheating, but the defence of the Motherland requires no less!

Well it is a single player game so the only person you're cheating is yourself, set yourself whatever rules and goals you choose. ;p 

Although one of the reasons to play RP-1 is the realism.

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Oh yeah, it fits the "Role Playing" too! :lol:

After all, in Baikonur (and in other places too, right?),  they transport the rockets without the fuel, I think.

So, for the added realism I may actually have to always empty the tanks, and let the rocket be refuelled on the pad. The mass limit may be thought as the maximum carrying capacity of the transport train instead of of the pad itself. This may add a nice vibe to also have to keep looking if the refuelling has already finished before I ignite the engines.

 

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12 minutes ago, Kazkar said:

Oh yeah, it fits the "Role Playing" too! :lol:

After all, in Baikonur (and in other places too, right?),  they transport the rockets without the fuel, I think.

So, for the added realism I may actually have to always empty the tanks, and let the rocket be refuelled on the pad. The mass limit may be thought as the maximum carrying capacity of the transport train instead of of the pad itself. This may add a nice vibe to also have to keep looking if the refuelling has already finished before I ignite the engines.

 

Although if you're going that route then be aware that there are two launch clamp pumping processes:

  • the _ClampPump Process is defined in the RO Kerbalism config and supplies EC, oxygen, LOX, H2, LH2, food, water and nitrogen at 10 u/s.
  • the RefuelingPump Module is defined by RealFuels and supplies modular fuel tanks with any (pumpable) resource they contain at 10000 u/s

For maximum realism you'd want to decrease the pump rates.

Spoiler
// This example decreases launch clamp pump rates by factor of 100
// Default pump rate is 10000 so this would reduce it to 100
// I have not tested this for game balance
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[RefuelingPump]]
{
	@MODULE[RefuelingPump]
	{
		@pump_rate /= 100 
	}
}

 

Also, while fuel costs are a smaller fraction of the total rocket cost in RP than in stock, filling the tanks on the pad essentially gets you fuel for free and makes KCT rollout slightly quicker and cheaper too. Decreasing pump rates could compensate for the decreased KCT rollout time by requiring you to fast forward a few hours on pad while waiting for tanks to fill. (It would also decrease the current fuel bonus you get during engine spool up prior to clamp release)

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4 hours ago, Aelfhe1m said:

Although one of the reasons to play RP-1 is the realism.

I like RP-1, but the realism part sort of went out the window for me when RP-1 told me that the Pale Blue Dot had over seven billion people living on it... in 1951. :lol:

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9 hours ago, Grimmas said:

I like RP-1, but the realism part sort of went out the window for me when RP-1 told me that the Pale Blue Dot had over seven billion people living on it... in 1951. :lol:

Writing some code to change the flavour text based on in-game date would probably be a bit overkill :grin:, although avoiding mentioning population at all might have been better than picking a single data point, especially one that's only a little more than a decade old and that may well be obsolete by the end of this year.

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On 6/4/2022 at 10:16 AM, Aelfhe1m said:

Although if you're going that route then be aware that there are two launch clamp pumping processes:

  • the _ClampPump Process is defined in the RO Kerbalism config and supplies EC, oxygen, LOX, H2, LH2, food, water and nitrogen at 10 u/s.
  • the RefuelingPump Module is defined by RealFuels and supplies modular fuel tanks with any (pumpable) resource they contain at 10000 u/s

For maximum realism you'd want to decrease the pump rates.

  Reveal hidden contents
// This example decreases launch clamp pump rates by factor of 100
// Default pump rate is 10000 so this would reduce it to 100
// I have not tested this for game balance
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[RefuelingPump]]
{
	@MODULE[RefuelingPump]
	{
		@pump_rate /= 100 
	}
}

 

Also, while fuel costs are a smaller fraction of the total rocket cost in RP than in stock, filling the tanks on the pad essentially gets you fuel for free and makes KCT rollout slightly quicker and cheaper too. Decreasing pump rates could compensate for the decreased KCT rollout time by requiring you to fast forward a few hours on pad while waiting for tanks to fill. (It would also decrease the current fuel bonus you get during engine spool up prior to clamp release)

  Hmm if I restart my USSR game (I am like 4 years behind history) I might have to try this out. Cause it seems that there rockets were much heavier then ours at the time.

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I'm just wondering, does RP1 remove the ability to choose MLI layers for tanks?

I was using just realism overhaul for a while and decided to try RP1 and I generally really like it, but I've been looking to build a cryo upper stage and I can't find any tank labeled for cryo and I noticed the option to adjust MLI layers on tanks is no longer there like it was for realism overhaul.

Service tanks aren't meant to replace fuel tanks, right?  in game it says they aren't meant to hold bulk fuel.

So with no tank using electricity for cryogenic cooling, and no tank offering the ability to adjust MLI layers i'm not sure what I'm supposed to do to optimize.

I didn't think this was a question requiring a log, but if it is, I'd be happy to post one.

I AM having issues where Realistic Antennas options aren't showing up in the PAW for the vast majority of parts approved by RP1, so if my MLI/cryo options are simply missing perhaps this could be related.

But yes just asking because I'm not sure what SHOULD be there and I can't find the information anywhere else.

Thank you

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@Fergrim The MLI option is definitely there. How far down the tech tree have you gone? Single layer MLI is supposed to unlock with "Advanced Capsules Era Material Science", then 25 layers with "Lunar Exploration Era Material Science" and 50 layers with "Space Station Era Material Science".

After I typed the above, I checked in my career save and there does seem to be some sort of possible error - but I'm not seeing the one you're reporting. Instead all my basic RO modular tanks and Procedural Parts tanks HAVE the MLI option when it shouldn't be unlocked at my stage of tech development. The option is not present on any of the other tanks just the basic (cylindrical) modular tanks and the procedural parts tanks.

As for comms. I've got very little unlocked in that part of my career tech tree to check but all the options I would expect seem to be showing up in sandbox - first time playing with Real Antennas so I might be missing something but sliders for band selection, tech level, db gain and active transmission time which seems to match the user guide in the wiki.

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Edit: Beginning of an answer to our issue at the end of this post

Aelf thank you so much for your response.

Okay, so I'm not seeing the MLI options and I'm not seeing Real Antenna options - the ones I do see aren't responding to my tech tree unlocks.

Also, in research bodies, no matter how much I upgrade the DSN - the research bodies contracts remain locked due to not meeting the building upgrade requirements.

I have a theory, I think RP-1's custom barnkit is full on borked.

Every issue I'm describing, and yours too, seem to revolve around it failing to recognize these unlock progressions.

I mean, besides tooling, RP1 is not too far off from Realism Overhaul.  Maybe a temporary fix would be to excise the troublesome configs in the RP1 folder.

But now that I know that I am indeed suffering from a variety of bugs - I'm not only saddened but I'd desperately love a fix.  I'll post another log as well, if that would help.

Edit: My current install is one of the slimmest mod wise I've ever done, it has very little on top of what the RP-1 express install required however I did just notice that I don't have community tech tree installed which, I swear was always a default necessity but I could be wrong.

I also just noticed a Kopernicus update along with a community fixes update.  It wouldn't fit my above theory, but maybe one of the above will solve the issues I described.

It's hard to determine the source of these problems though with how damn bossy a few mods are, specifically RP-1 and Kerbalism.  Two mods I really like, but also two mods that got an F in preschool under plays well with others.

Edit:  Just finished testing, and I did so lazily, so my conclusions are broad but useful.  I can definitively say that the problem is with RP-0 in particular.

Having uninstalled RP-0 and then gone through a proper reinstallation of Realism Overhaul (+ dependencies, plus many suggested and recommended) my MLI layers are back and only allowing me to add as many as I've unlocked (just checked) and also while Real Antenna still isn't showing up on EVERY antenna, the parts it does show up for all allow me to adjust their settings for tech level - as opposed to with RP-0 installed where you're restricted to tech level 0 which makes your prospects for getting any traction outside of Earth's SOI very dim.

I don't know what RP-0's problem is.  It's somewhere between the barnkit and the tech tree. Given the fact that everything else works fine together (I'm running Construction Time, Contract configurator, realism overhaul, RSS, Kerbalism etc Basically RP-0 without tooling/avionics) I'm 80% confident in my general assessment of RP0 being the problem, though.

Edited by Fergrim
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RP-1 doesn't support ResearchBodies - it's as easy as that.

As for MLI layer count and RealAntennas tech levels, you will need to purchase the PartUpgrades from the RnD center to be able to use them. 

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Regarding research bodies, that's fine, but I guess I wasn't clear.

I have more than enough upgrades in both respects, though the RnD center and neither one shows.  I was about 2000 total science points into that career without ever having seen MLI layer options - same goes for Real Antennas bandwidths beyond UHF and VHF.  I've been trying to find someone who can even just point me to the problem, let alone a solution when it comes to these issues for weeks upon weeks now.

I tried for the whole three weeks to determine a solution on my own, scouring config files, faqs and google but to no avail.  I was extremely hesitant to uninstall RP-1 and was honestly surprised to discover that simply removing it solved all of my problems in one fell swoop.

My fix isn't so easy as one of me simply being ignorant, unfortunately.

Finally, what's so different about RP-1 that it can't support research bodies?  All research bodies really cares about is having access to the planet list.  What I'm trying to say here is that research bodies doesn't innately conflict with absolutely anything.   I mean, if it all comes down it being actively thwarted because the RP-1 contract progression doesn't want to respect discovered vs undiscovered bodies then I'd rather have the option to choose to use research bodies anyway.

For example, right now my install consists of basically everything that an RP-1 install does - kerbal construction time, milestones/achievements, historical progression contracts, kerbalism, realism overhaul + exclusively realism overhaul compatible parts, real antennas and BARIS in place of testlite.  Basically all it's missing is avionics and tooling.   In this configuration, research bodies works without need for special attention.  And given that, there's no reason why it should require any support... unless, perhaps, if I added its building upgrade info to the RP1 custom barnkit.  I'm thinking it's just a matter of RP-1 giving itself both first and last bite at the apple when it comes to laying down rules - sort of actively denying other mods their edits rather than sharing.  This would explain RealAntennas' issues as well, because realantennas depends on its own custom settings that it applies to the tracking station - bandwidth upgrades also being dependent on RA recognizing a certain level of building upgrade.

I haven't used RP-1 long so I couldn't say if it's only recently it started heavily customizing custombarnkit.  If not,  then I'm at the mercy of someone who knows better pointing me in the right direction because that's the only idea I have :(

Edited by Fergrim
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RA is a dependency of RP-1 and was in fact developed with RO/RP-1 in mind. The fact that it supports stock and whatever other planetary system you throw at it is just a bonus. I'm still sticking with my theory that what you did wrong was not purchasing the RA antenna tech upgrades from the RnD complex.

We aren't going out of our way to break ResearchBodies (or any other mod that doesn't affect gameplay balance). Now the thing is that if it doesn't work for whatever reason then it means that someone on the dev team needs to spend their time to figure out WHY it doesn't work and then probably even more time to work out a fix. Usually that time could be spent on something that benefits the wider audience rather than uncommon use cases like ResearchBodies. This project is open to community contributions though so you or someone else is welcome to submit the necessary fixes for ResearchBodies. 

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I did a very quick test installing ReasearchBodies and starting a new career save and it immediately starts throwing exception spam. This seems to be an because of the inclusion of the observatory building at KSC messing with the way RP-1 facility maintenance works:

Spoiler
[EXC 12:07:56.153] ArgumentException: Requested value 'Observatory' was not found.
	System.Enum+EnumResult.SetFailure (System.Enum+ParseFailureKind failure, System.String failureMessageID, System.Object failureMessageFormatArgument) (at <9577ac7a62ef43179789031239ba8798>:0)
	System.Enum.TryParseEnum (System.Type enumType, System.String value, System.Boolean ignoreCase, System.Enum+EnumResult& parseResult) (at <9577ac7a62ef43179789031239ba8798>:0)
	System.Enum.Parse (System.Type enumType, System.String value, System.Boolean ignoreCase) (at <9577ac7a62ef43179789031239ba8798>:0)
	System.Enum.Parse (System.Type enumType, System.String value) (at <9577ac7a62ef43179789031239ba8798>:0)
	RP0.MaintenanceHandler.EnsureFacilityLvlCostsLoaded () (at <922bdd24cb23485ca30924d3fad68354>:0)
	RP0.MaintenanceHandler.UpdateUpkeep () (at <922bdd24cb23485ca30924d3fad68354>:0)
	RP0.MaintenanceHandler.Update () (at <922bdd24cb23485ca30924d3fad68354>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

Until the devs choose to address this (if they do) RB is not compatible and should not be installed in an RP-1 build. 

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2 hours ago, neuronicism said:

does anyone know how to change the difficulty? ive tried looking up the walkthrough but i have some missing mods/options. HELP MEH

 

 

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That highlighted tick and cross does look odd.  

In general, for those contract types I find switching to all the satellites is enough for contract configurator to assign the sats and sort out which sat is which.  Wait a couple of seconds at each sat before switching to the next.  If necessary switch back to the first and start slowly cycling again.  

Also that looks like an old version of RP-1.   

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13 hours ago, AVaughan said:

That highlighted tick and cross does look odd.  

In general, for those contract types I find switching to all the satellites is enough for contract configurator to assign the sats and sort out which sat is which.  Wait a couple of seconds at each sat before switching to the next.  If necessary switch back to the first and start slowly cycling again.  

Also that looks like an old version of RP-1.   

I'm playing on 1.10.1, also I did cycle between the sats as you remarked to no avail

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2 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I'm playing on 1.10.1, also I did cycle between the sats as you remarked to no avail

It looks like a glitch to me so I would say 'Cheat'.  Open the cheats->contracts menu and complete it that way. 

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