Kayak Club

[swjr-swis]

1 hour ago, Klapaucius said:

Awesome, two challenges completed in one go!  Please post that on the original challenge page as well :-)

I already did, way back when. There's even video footage of the attempt. I used a variant of that same plane for this revisit. It's become my land-pretty-much-anywhere-I-fancy vehicle. The only reason I don't use it more often is because it only flies a mere Mach 1.15 fully tanked (not bad for a seaplane, mind you), and time is of essence lately.

 

[Klapaucius]

12 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

I already did, way back when. There's even video footage of the attempt. I used a variant of that same plane for this revisit. It's become my land-pretty-much-anywhere-I-fancy vehicle. The only reason I don't use it more often is because it only flies a mere Mach 1.15 fully tanked (not bad for a seaplane, mind you), and time is of essence lately.

 

Oh of course, duh!  It's past midnight here. Brain not working at 100% 

[Castille7]

On 1/10/2020 at 4:49 AM, swjr-swis said:

Castille7's nighttime J.U.M.P.E.R.S. location (I could definitively match only one of the screenshots, the river one. I flew around the area for a good hour without finding anything that looked even slightly similar to the other pictures. Are there any directions missing from the river to the mountains in those pictures? Perhaps it explains why no one seems to have located this one yet.)

I do apologize for not being clear that this was a post of scouting around looking for a Landmark with some significance. I will post a Landmark that I did find in this area I am calling "Mount Keverest" and I will give better direction on finding it. I will add a link on the OP to direct my findings of "Mount Keverest"

On another note, I really like how you have all these awesome sights available to see on a single post, too cool 

[Castille7]

I am leaving the Runway on a heading of ENE (East North East, this is about 70 degrees on the Nav Ball). You will pass by an Island first then fly over the First Continent and when arriving at the second Continent start looking at about eleven o'clock and you will see what I am calling "Mount Keverest" It stands about 5,000m and not likely to be the Highest Mountain on Kerbin to earn the name but we can verify that if we want to start a Challenge within a Challenge? (In Search of Mount Keverest")

"The First Mount Keverest"

 

It lays near the Sea

[swjr-swis]

4 hours ago, Castille7 said:

"The First Mount Keverest"

 

I think the actual Mount Keverest was already discovered and flagged a good while ago. It helped having the interactive map of Kerbin online back then - the map also gave altitudes under the cursor.

Even though this isn't The One, it's a very pleasing site to visit. So I decided to plant an observation tower at the summit. Off went our intrepid explorers in their Swallow.

Spoiler

Approaching the suspected location of this landmark. Angle is somewhat different, so let's do a fly around to confirm.

Yep, that looks like our destination. Right at the end of the continent too, good place for a relay and observation post. Crew, ready for landing.

May not be the actual Keverest, but it sure looks like an imposing climb, especially that SE wall. Shedding the fairing so we are set for drop off.

Cargo away. Looks like it's gonna be a spot on delivery, if maybe not quite the highest point.

Chutes deployed for a gentle descent, while we watch the Swallow fly on into the twilight.

Not quite the highest point, and on a slight incline, but Val is happy with the result. Observation post delivered and operational!

The awesome part about the Swallow is that its flight stability affords a very large window in which to return to the craft. Drop off successful, time to head back.

Oh wait no... of course Jeb wants to try to land the plane on the summit as well. I mean, sure, wouldn't everyone?

Well, an attempt was made. And you only rolled 600m downhill before being able to get out. Nice.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by swjr-swis
Added a screenshot with same view angle for ID

[Klapaucius]

4 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

 

I think the actual Mount Keverest was already discovered and flagged a good while ago. It helped having the interactive map of Kerbin online back then - the map also gave altitudes under the cursor.

Even though this isn't The One, it's a very pleasing site to visit. So I decided to plant an observation tower at the summit. Off went our intrepid explorers in their Swallow.

  Reveal hidden contents

That looks like our destination. Crew, ready for landing.

Yep, definitely the place. May not be the actual Keverest, but it sure looks like an imposing climb, especially that SE wall. Shedding the fairing so we are set for drop off.

Cargo away. Looks like it's gonna be a spot on delivery, if maybe not quite the highest point.

Chutes deployed for a gentle descent, while we watch the Swallow fly on into the twilight.

Not quite the highest point, and on a slight incline, but Val is happy with the result. Observation post delivered and oparational!

The awesome part about the Swallow is that its flight stability affords a very large window in which to return to the craft. Drop off successful, time to head back.

Oh wait no... of course Jeb wants to try to land the plane on the summit as well. I mean, sure, wouldn't everyone?

Well, an attempt was made. And you only rolled 600m downhill before being able to get out. Nice.

 

Yes it has been.  @Poodmund created this very useful list of highest and lowest places throughout the Kerbol solar system:

 

 

[swjr-swis]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, Hotel26 said:

Lake Excalibur Sir fulgur Hotel26 Castille7 Klapaucius TheFlyingKerman

No credit for me dropping an observation post there?

 

On 12/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, Hotel26 said:

Dead End River Castille7

It's a bit hard to see in the dark, but this looks like he's right over Lake Klapacius, except looking in the opposite direction. A brightened version of his screenshot, and a screenshot of my own from the angle I mean, to compare:

Spoiler

Or does it count as a separate landmark for showing a different part of the area? Which I'd be ok with, but then I'd like credit for first visitation.

 

On 12/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, Hotel26 said:

Kwitzerland TheFlyingKerman

Similar thing here: this looks like the shore of the Dumbell Lakes @SuicidalInsanity already posted. Except here it literally shows the same area, just from lower by the ground. I add both screenshots side by side. Yes/no?

Spoiler

 

On 12/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, Hotel26 said:

Heavenly Valley Hotel26

 

Ok, I thought you were just naming @TheFlyingKerman's landmark with this, but apparently you meant to claim a landmark of your own. So I went back there to visit the place and prove first visitation:

Spoiler

 

[Hotel26]

1 hour ago, swjr-swis said:

No credit for me dropping an observation post there?

You did brilliant work and I was deeply impressed with your targeting accuracy -- not to mention making the effort.

I've thought for a while that Kayak Club is a great way not only to show off Kerbin but also Explorer Ingenuity, vis-a-vis aerospace design.  Like a bird-spotter, I delight in seeing various planes!

There's a note under the leader-board, which shows how far up-to-date it is.  You just haven't been entered unto the Totalizer, as yet, good sir.  I shall hie me to the Dungeons and see what the Lowly Tabulators are playing at -- and/or how drunk they are.  Stand by...

[I think you're right: I did miss this one.  You're all good now.]

Edited January 12, 2020 by Hotel26

[Hotel26]

1 hour ago, swjr-swis said:

Or does it count as a separate landmark for showing a different part of the area?

The whole area has been conflated to Lake Klapaucius.  One of the shots was taken directly over Lake Klapaucius without actually showing the water below.  (Invoking Supreme Judges: @Castille7 and @purpleivan to rule on the history of that.)  A very similar case is Heavenly Valley, in which I entered a shot taken in the previous 24 hours as an entry for "Rapid River", but converted it to a Landmark entry since it would have been tenuous, although I believed it showed a far shot of the "impressive formation".  (Judges again.)

[Heavenly Valley, in my mind, is, like Lake Tahoe, the whole region around and including a huge lake and the surrounding mountains.  But not particularly features such as connecting gorges.  Incidentally, I've had a devil of a time finding suitable landing fields in this whole region.  And that yellow UV burned-off grass is very featureless and difficult to gauge slopes and bumps etc...  I have a reasonable location now but would certainly value comparing notes with anyone else exploring in the region.)

(The rationale was that I had been expecting Lake Klapaucius and Heavenly Valley to be entered some time early in the Kwest and it gets a bit hard if there are Landmarks declared which are all just part of the same Landmark.  Judges!)

Confusion about @TheFlyingKerman's Kwitzerland and here is the shot I  believe he was back-referring to when he entered it.  We'll get his ruling...

                                                         

I intend to add Landmark hyperlinks to aid in this situation.  Soon, also, visitation links.

I'll finish with a note pertinent to you, Earl @swjr-swis, [yes, good news, your Earldom has been granted and well-earned, old bean!]  Kayak Club was founded after an interchange by Castille7 and purleivan in What Did You Do In KSP Today in which the former effectively posted the Kayak River landmark and the latter then posted his own shot proving prior visitation.  Taking that into account, You Yourself proved to be only the Sixth visitor to the location.  (Mathematical induction suggesting therefore that an award of zero points bla bla bla...  as much as I regret that.  More pro bono, above and beyond the call of duty.  You, Good Sir Knight, will very likely stand at the top of the leader-board very shortly, unless I've missed my guess!)

Please do continue to check my the work thoroughly of those Fawlty Tabulators!

Edited January 12, 2020 by Hotel26

[fulgur]

Sorry I haven't been here lately, the KSC put me in charge of aerospace design.

This is the Kayak Club Lead Zeppelin [groan] and over the past few days I have been attempting to wrestle it into flying straight. When it's in the sea I'm going to quicksave and use that as a launching point for future missions...

[swjr-swis]

48 minutes ago, Hotel26 said:

Taking that into account, You Yourself proved to be only the Sixth visitor to the location.

Most correct, and a very just and fair decision. Gain a point, lose a point. The site was well worth a visit even without points to gain.

In fact I'd say most of the landmarks so far are worth checking out - there tends to be a lot more to see than the few screenshots posted. Maybe with the exception of a certain very lonely island, which really only showed lots of ocean.

[purpleivan]

2 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

The whole area has been conflated to Lake Klapaucius.  One of the shots was taken directly over Lake Klapaucius without actually showing the water below.  (Invoking Supreme Judges: @Castille7 and @purpleivan to rule on the history of that.)

What history rulling can I assist with (haven't had my 2nd coffee yet, so I'm not clear on what's wanted)?

[Hotel26]

4 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

It's a bit hard to see in the dark, but this looks like he's right over Lake Klapacius, except looking in the opposite direction

Hear ye, hear ye!  The Royal Court of Controversy is now In Session...

If it pleases the Judges,  @Castille7 shot a very dark picture of what he called "Dead End River".  @swjr-swis believes that this is just the river leading up to Lake Klapaucius, and not a separate landmark.  So I believe it was actually Sir @fulgur who first went to this place and his interest, I think, was in the gorge and river that leads to the lake and the surrounding mountains.  (As stated, one of his shots was located immediately above the Lake.)  That's the moment when I conflated this all to "Lake Klapaucius", since Sir fulgur hadn't named it.  I recognized the area instantly as Klapaucius' Lake, flew there, and then donated the points to Klapaucius (who later visited).

So, I think the question really comes down to whether Count Castille7's very dark picture of "Dead End River" is actually a separate Landmark (since Lake Klapaucius had already been entered, or whether it's a separate location.  On that, I think perhaps Castille7 could enter first a plea of Yea or Nay.  Count, what say Ye?

Edited January 12, 2020 by Hotel26

[purpleivan]

2 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

Hear ye, hear ye!  The Royal Court of Controversy is now In Session...

If it pleases the Judges,  @Castille7 shot a very dark picture of what he called "Dead End River".  @swjr-swis believes that this is just the river leading up to Lake Klapaucius, and not a separate landmark.  So I believe it was actually Sir @fulgur who first went to this place and his interest, I think, was in the gorge and river that leads to the lake and the surrounding mountains.  (As stated, one of his shots was located immediately above the Lake.)  That's the moment when I conflated this all to "Lake Klapaucius", since Sir fulgur hadn't named it.  I recognized the area instantly as Klapaucius' Lake, flew there, and then donated the points to Klapaucius (who later visited).

So, I think the question really comes down to whether Count Castille7's very dark picture of "Dead End River" is actually a separate Landmark (since Lake Klapaucius had already been entered, or whether it's a separate location.  On that, I think perhaps Castille7 could enter first a plea of Yea or Nay.  Count, what say Ye?

If it pleases the court I would like to enter the following into evidence.

Investigators Jebediah Kerman and his assistant Bob Kerman took off a little after dawn to obtain photographic evidence.

They followed the directions given by Fulgar to Lake Klapacious.

Spoiler

On reaching the mouth of the river they turned inland in search of the truth...

Spoiler

... at the speed of afterburners.

Spoiler

They snaked their way up the river.

Spoiler

Then headed over the lake.

Spoiler

Before heading skyward to avoid the Wall of Doom in search of more afterburner fueled truth.

Spoiler

For comparison, investigator's image left and @fulgur image right... looks like we're at the same location.

With the Wall of Doom (originally named Wallus Doomus) cleared, it was time for a little sightseeing... I mean, evidence gathering.

Spoiler

It sure is pretty around here, but our investigators are here to obtain evidence, not take pretty snapshots (oh, who am I kidding).

But this certainly looks a similar location to Dead End River, submitted by @Castille7 (brightness adjusted by @swjr-swis

After clearing the steep sided walls around Lake Klapaucius, the aircraft was taken back around towards the mountains, for another pass over the lake.

Spoiler

Spoiler

This certainly looks similar to the view in @Castille7 image.

But where is the plane at this moment. The following sequence will reveal the shocking truth, that the view of Dead End River is indeed taken from above Lake Klapaucius.

With the question of the locations resolved, the issue at hand is whether the two submissions constitute separate locations.

If the image of Dead End River had been taken further downstream, with the mountains around Lake Klapaucius not in view, then it is in this judge's view that they might be considered separate locations. However, with the mountains around the lake being a significant part of the view of the river, the proximity of the two locations and the Dead End River image being taken while flying above Lake Klapaucius there can only be one judgement.

That judgement being that the two locations cannot be separated, but instead they are intrinsically linked and so @Castille7 image has failed the test.

Purpleivan dons his black cap and calls for the swift axe of justice to fall on Dead End River.

[fulgur]

They do indeed look very similar. The question is whether they are the same...

I believe that if something is visible from the same spot at an altitude of, let's say 5km, it should be the same. You could call the entire river Dead End River (although it's already named the K'Yangtze) and the lake Klapaucius, making them separate locations, or you could bundle the two into one location, as they are both at the end of the river...

[Hotel26]

3 hours ago, purpleivan said:

It sure is pretty around here

This, I think, being the whole point of Kayak Club: to bring people to a pretty place and admire it subjectively according to their own taste.  One Adventurer likes the lake and another the snow caps.

More importantly, we should consider what happens when a duplicate location is given, perhaps with differently-worded instructions, and an Adventurer is disappointed to discover he/she has already been there.  Or when I get 3 points for going there and then someone else gets 5 for being the first to visit there under a different name.

I commend the Judge's decision to all and unless Castille7 dissents (in which case I'd have to cast a tie-breaker), I'd say the matter is settled.

Sir fulgur: correct point about the name, K'Yangtze.  Thanks for mentioning that.

Which takes our Judges to the second matter, of a similar nature, which could be decided by precedent (if the Judges choose) or as Their Honors determine.  Since it requires divulgence of a secret location, visitation for which has already been awarded points, I'd propose sending a PM to both judges (unfortunately thereby disqualifying either for scoring (extra) points re Heavenly Valley and Rapid River).  The judgments can be made public.  The issue is the manner in which Heavenly Valley was declared a Landmark: valid or not?  Acceptable, Judge?

Nice work, Judge purpleivan!!  Much appreciated.  (Very, very interested in that plane of yours, too, I can tell you, even after spending all day in the SPH today!).

P.S. I will be awarding you 2 points for Fourth Visitation of Lake Klapaucius!  Castille7 gets 3 points, I think, but to be confirmed.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Hotel26

[Castille7]

1 hour ago, Hotel26 said:

More importantly, we should consider what happens when a duplicate location is given

I would say the early bird gets the worm (The First Adventurer to find a place and give it the name of their desire this becomes their Landmark from that day forward) all others that follow can not give it another name. So ie: If Lake Klapaucius is the first finding and it's a lake at the end of a "Dead End River" then we have "Lake Klapaucius" as the Landmark and "Dead End River" does not exist.

This would be my ruling in this situation if all else agree? @purpleivan @Hotel26

Edited January 12, 2020 by Castille7

[purpleivan]

15 minutes ago, Castille7 said:

I would say the early bird gets the worm (The First Adventurer to find a place and give it the name of their desire this becomes their Landmark from that day forward) all others that follow can not give it another name. So ie: If Lake Klapaucius is the first finding and it's a lake at the end of a "Dead End River" then we have "Lake Klapaucius" as the Landmark and "Dead End River" does not exist.

This would be my ruling in this situation if all else agree? @purpleivan @Hotel26

I agree with @Castille7

[swjr-swis]

23 minutes ago, Castille7 said:

I would say the early bird gets the worm (The First Adventurer to find a place and give it the name of their desire this becomes their Landmark from that day forward) all others that follow can not give it another name.

Feeling a bit bad that the river is now out as landmark because despite a prior official name, I kinda liked the name you gave it. I'm having great fun seeing what monikers people come up with for the visited landmarks.

I think the ruling is fair though.

[Castille7]

8 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

Feeling a bit bad that the river is now out as landmark because despite a prior official name, I kinda liked the name you gave it. I'm having great fun seeing what monikers people come up with for the visited landmarks.

I think the ruling is fair though.

If the OP would like to change their Landmark name I would say to run it by @Hotel26 and he can set it in Stone. I would be ok with my name being taken for this location.

[purpleivan]

19 hours ago, Klapaucius said:

Yes it has been.  @Poodmund created this very useful list of highest and lowest places throughout the Kerbol solar system:

 

For reference, it's 6767m ASL.

Raced up to the top from the shoreline in 27 minutes for a challenge some time ago.

[purpleivan]

Jeb and Bill just took the Flyak out to Molar Valley.

Weather seemed a little inclement on the way in.

But a drop in altitude fixed that.

Jeb took the Flyak in low through the valley.

Then back through in the opposite direction.

Cloud had lifted a little on the way out, affording a more identifiable view of the "teeth" in Molar Valley.

[swjr-swis]

21 minutes ago, purpleivan said:

Cloud had lifted a little on the way out, affording a more identifiable view of the "teeth" in Molar Valley.

I do hope KSP2 includes some form of weather in the stock game. Gorgeous views, thank you.

[Poodmund]

2 hours ago, purpleivan said:

For reference, it's 6767m ASL.

Raced up to the top from the shoreline in 27 minutes for a challenge some time ago.

I think KSP gives the altitude from the position of the top parent game object of the root part so the best, most consistent way to get altitude readings of places is to EVA a Kerbal and read off the altitude where they are standing on the surface.

[swjr-swis]

41 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

I think KSP gives the altitude from the position of the top parent game object of the root part so the best, most consistent way to get altitude readings of places is to EVA a Kerbal and read off the altitude where they are standing on the surface.

It is also highly dependent on the 'Terrain Detail' game setting - surface smoothing being done in bigger or smaller tiles causes significant differences in ground surface elevation. I've seen differences between 0-100m from what other people have given for the exact same coordinates. Terrain with large altitude gradients tend to cause larger differences between detail settings.

Sometimes this has caused known easter eggs to be unreachable in a game due to ending up under the ground surface (desert temple being a well-known example).