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[1.5 - 1.10] Kerbalism 3.11


Sir Mortimer
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7 minutes ago, WhatALovelyNick said:

Hello!
Is there a way to put an upgrade to Emitter module? And place it in the tech tree?

Yes- though doing part upgrades is a bit tricky. I suggest you look through the Kerbalism configs to find an existing patch (e.g. one which upgrades hard drive capacity) and use that as a template for your new patch. Alternatively, just clone the part and boost its stats that way.

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1 hour ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

Yes- though doing part upgrades is a bit tricky. I suggest you look through the Kerbalism configs to find an existing patch (e.g. one which upgrades hard drive capacity) and use that as a template for your new patch. Alternatively, just clone the part and boost its stats that way.

Yes, but... if i put emitter in [kerbalEVA*] and wanna use if only after opening "Experimental Science(where kerbalism active shield belong)" node?

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15 hours ago, RoadWarrior9 said:

I just posted a config that converts all kerbalism greenhouses to a rate based food per second instead of harvest based method. It includes all SSPX greenhouse type modules except for the smallest one. See post. To add the SSPX greenhouse modules using the default kerbalism greenhouse just edit the file SSPX.cfg under support in the Kerbalism support section, find greenhouse, copy paste and change the part name.

The idea is quite good! Why not the smallest one?

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3 hours ago, WhatALovelyNick said:

Yes, but... if i put emitter in [kerbalEVA*] and wanna use if only after opening "Experimental Science(where kerbalism active shield belong)" node?

Again, just use an existing upgrade config as a template but change the part name to KerbalEVA*, the upgrade itself to add a shield (+MODULE[ModuleEmitter] might work?) and the tech tree node to experimental science. I can’t look at any code right now to give you a more definitive answer but there should be enough information in the Kerbalism files to bodge together the necessary patch.

Spoiler

Radiation shield on an EVA Kerbal though? :huh:

 

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1 hour ago, WhatALovelyNick said:

Yes, Both active and passive. (depends on the suit skin)

I'm not so sure that adding passive shielding would work, since a) you can't change the amount of any resource given to a Kerbal when they go on EVA, b) shielding can't be transferred so unlike Nitrogen for the EVA packs there's no obvious way to get the shielding into the Kerbals except to bake it in and hope it actually loads, and c) would passive shielding even work to reduce an EVA Kerbal's radiation exposure since the Kerbal is the part, rather than being inside it?

For an active shield, after looking at the Kerbalism code a bit, I reckon you'll need to create at least two patches: first, create an Upgrade that allows the active shield emitter module to be added to any part when experimentalScience is unlocked; then add the Upgrade config to KerbalEVA*. Use existing configs as a guide- for Upgrade modules, there's the RDU module that gets added to the Hitchhiker and a few parts from other mods, while for adding an active shield there's one for SSPX. Whether it'll work or not is anyone's guess, but I remain sceptical.

It's also hard to see exactly where you're going that you'd need personal radiation shielding- exactly how long are you planning to do an EVA in a high-radiation environment for? An active shield would drain a Kerbal's power supply in minutes and passive shielding would just weigh them down.

You may want to consider making a wearable part for the stock inventory system that provides radiation shielding instead?

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12 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

I'm not so sure that adding passive shielding would work, since a) you can't change the amount of any resource given to a Kerbal when they go on EVA, b) shielding can't be transferred so unlike Nitrogen for the EVA packs there's no obvious way to get the shielding into the Kerbals except to bake it in and hope it actually loads, and c) would passive shielding even work to reduce an EVA Kerbal's radiation exposure since the Kerbal is the part, rather than being inside it?

I did it. I do not planning to. :)

https://imgur.com/a/qZOMJSI

14 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

exactly how long are you planning to do an EVA in a high-radiation environment for?

around 30 hours

15 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

An active shield would drain a Kerbal's power supply in minutes and passive shielding would just weigh them down.

I made Galvanic Cells for them ;)

16 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

You may want to consider making a wearable part for the stock inventory system that provides radiation shielding instead?

I tried, didn't work :(

16 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

first, create an Upgrade that allows the active shield emitter module to be added to any part when experimentalScience is unlocked; then add the Upgrade config to KerbalEVA*. Use existing configs as a guide- for Upgrade modules, there's the RDU module that gets added to the Hitchhiker and a few parts from other mods, while for adding an active shield there's one for SSPX.

Okay, I'll give it a try!

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On 12/2/2021 at 3:41 PM, seaces said:

Thank you for all this information! One question, How do you know what is the max dose of radiation can a Kerbal receive before it dies? That number would help me as I could send a probe, get radiation values and figure out how long a Kerbal can sit before it gets cooked.

as i said, it's about 50 rad. 1 hour at 1 rad/h will give your kerbonaut 1 rad, which will equate to 2% radiation damage.

 but you don't need to send a probe to measure radiations. you press B while on the map, centered on a body, and you see its radiation belts, and how much radiation they have.

as a rule of thumb, the inner belt of kerbin and the belts of jool are the only one that are really dangerous. everything else, you can mostly ignore. solar storms are also dangerous, but if you correctly use fuel tanks as sunshields, they won't be an issue

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1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

as i said, it's about 50 rad. 1 hour at 1 rad/h will give your kerbonaut 1 rad, which will equate to 2% radiation damage.

 but you don't need to send a probe to measure radiations. you press B while on the map, centered on a body, and you see its radiation belts, and how much radiation they have.

as a rule of thumb, the inner belt of kerbin and the belts of jool are the only one that are really dangerous. everything else, you can mostly ignore. solar storms are also dangerous, but if you correctly use fuel tanks as sunshields, they won't be an issue

Thank you @king of nowhere this is really helpful.

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i have 2 questions!

1.whats the fastest way to generate shielding in the vessel?

2.i need some documentation and wiki about other modules: like TV that relieves stress and RDU (radiation detoxication unit) and how they work in addition to other life support wikis

 

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So. I tried to mimic hitchhiker-RDU upgrade.

Original code:

Spoiler

PARTUPGRADE:NEEDS[FeatureRadiation]
{
  name = Upgrade-HitchhikerRDU
  partIcon = crewCabin
  techRequired = advScienceTech
  cost = 275300
  title = Add Sickbay to Hitchhiker Storage Container
  manufacturer = Vertigo Astroceutics
  description = Adds a radiation detoxication unit (RDU) to the Hitchhiker Storage Container.
}

@PART[crewCabin]:NEEDS[FeatureRadiation]:FOR[KerbalismDefault]
{
  MODULE {
    name = Sickbay
    resource = _SickbayRDU
    title = RDU
    desc = The Radiation Detoxication Unit (RDU) uses EC and Oxygen to reduce the effects of radiation poisoning.
    slots = 0

    UPGRADES {
      UPGRADE {
        name__ = Upgrade-HitchhikerRDU
        techRequired__ = advScienceTech
        slots = 1
      }
    }
  }
}

And mine:

Spoiler

PARTUPGRADE:NEEDS[FeatureRadiation]
{
    name = portableEmitters
    partIcon = ScienceBox
    techRequired = portablestuff
    Cost = 1000
    title =  zzztitle
    manufacturer = zzzmanufacturer
    description = zzzdescription
}

@PART[kerbalEVA]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleTripLogger]]:NEEDS[FeatureRadiation]:FOR[KerbalismDefault]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = PassiveShield
        title = Rad-deflector
        toggle = false         // can be toggled
        radiation = 10
        added_mass = 10

        UPGRADES
            {
                UPGRADE
                    {
                        name__ = portableEmitters
                        techRequired__ = portablestuff
                        radiation = 1
                        added_mass = 100
                    }
            }
    }
}

(all these enormous numbers are just for test purpose)

And... nothing. Still nothing. :(

Edited by WhatALovelyNick
typos
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21 hours ago, tonimark said:

i have 2 questions!

1.whats the fastest way to generate shielding in the vessel?

2.i need some documentation and wiki about other modules: like TV that relieves stress and RDU (radiation detoxication unit) and how they work in addition to other life support wikis

 

1) bringing it from home.

really, shielding is heavy, but not TOO heavy. on the other hand, all the sources of shielding through chemical processes require years to make it.

I can suggest the molthen regolith process if you're on a planetary surface and must extract the carbon and oxygen anyway. but it's very slow going.

2) TV relieves of stress very slowly. if all the most optimal living conditions are implemented, stress will stay at 0%. maybe. depending on individual astronaut, because some are more resilient than others. don't count much on it. on the other hand, you generally don't have problems with the electricity, so no reason to not leave it on

2b) RDU cures 1% radiation damage in roughly 4 days. So, if you're planning a laythe mission, you will have to spend almost one year for your crew to recover.

it consumes oxygen and produces CO2, so I advise having some oxygen recycling if you plan it on a large scale. on the plus side, it is a convenient source of carbon, and it can feed a greenhouse by itself.

it works on an astronaut at a time, it must be inside the crew cabin, and you will then find an option to cure that specific astronaut.

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On 12/5/2021 at 9:40 PM, tonimark said:

i have 2 questions!

1.whats the fastest way to generate shielding in the vessel?

2.i need some documentation and wiki about other modules: like TV that relieves stress and RDU (radiation detoxication unit) and how they work in addition to other life support wikis

 

while rdu and tv are still not well documented i just found the best way to generate shielding turns out SOE solid oxide electrolysis did the best at topping the shielding to full in less than a year on a random craft assuming there is a constant rich supply of CO2 and also the most efficient since it consumed the least power making ideal for shielding up bases and stations against radiation now i have a 2nd question which is best:

1.full shielding at vessel

OR

2.multiple 4+  active shield modules that uses EC to deflect radiation assuming there is no shielding (0%) and a constant supply of EC 

at protecting ship from extrernal radiation and which method is best (1or2) for internal radiation (nuclear reactors) assuming all reactors are shielded as much as possible 

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12 minutes ago, tonimark said:

 which is best:

1.full shielding at vessel

OR

2.multiple 4+  active shield modules that uses EC to deflect radiation assuming there is no shielding (0%) and a constant supply of EC 

at protecting ship from extrernal radiation and which method is best (1or2) for internal radiation (nuclear reactors) assuming all reactors are shielded as much as possible 

depends on many factors

full shielding reduces radiation by 90% (at normal level). it always reduces 90%, whether you're hit by 1 mrad/h or you're crossing the inner jool radiation belt.

active shields reduce radiation by 0.04, again, no matter what the outside level.

so if your ship has to deal with constant low levels of radiation, an active shield is better. it completely negates all radiation. nuclear reactors on board count as a constant low level of radiation. and by the way, if you move the reactors far from the crew cabins, the radiation will be less.

if you have to cross a radiation belt, then it's better to have shielding. when you're facing 10 rad/h, reducing it to 9.96 with an active shield doesn't make an appreciable difference. but reducing it to 1 with passive shielding does.

i also point out that multiple active shields are very heavy and highly impractical. My DREAM BIG sported as much as 130 active shields because i was unable to deal with radiations at the time, and they added 400 tons of weight to the ship, and they drained 350 EC/s, and they protected from solar storms but around jool they were useless anyway (they'd have been useless even if i had had the power to run them).

if you are planning a jool mission or something equally elaborate, i suggest you use both. the active shield will protect you during the long trip exposed to the background radiation, and the passive shield will protect you for the short time when you cross the radiation belts. plus, passive shielding isn't THAT heavy. in my experience, it's generally around 5% of a ship's dry mass.

for my grand tours, i use a single active shield (I actually carry several ones, but only for backup) and maxxed passive shielding.

 

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1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

depends on many factors

full shielding reduces radiation by 90% (at normal level). it always reduces 90%, whether you're hit by 1 mrad/h or you're crossing the inner jool radiation belt.

active shields reduce radiation by 0.04, again, no matter what the outside level.

so if your ship has to deal with constant low levels of radiation, an active shield is better. it completely negates all radiation. nuclear reactors on board count as a constant low level of radiation. and by the way, if you move the reactors far from the crew cabins, the radiation will be less.

if you have to cross a radiation belt, then it's better to have shielding. when you're facing 10 rad/h, reducing it to 9.96 with an active shield doesn't make an appreciable difference. but reducing it to 1 with passive shielding does.

i also point out that multiple active shields are very heavy and highly impractical. My DREAM BIG sported as much as 130 active shields because i was unable to deal with radiations at the time, and they added 400 tons of weight to the ship, and they drained 350 EC/s, and they protected from solar storms but around jool they were useless anyway (they'd have been useless even if i had had the power to run them).

if you are planning a jool mission or something equally elaborate, i suggest you use both. the active shield will protect you during the long trip exposed to the background radiation, and the passive shield will protect you for the short time when you cross the radiation belts. plus, passive shielding isn't THAT heavy. in my experience, it's generally around 5% of a ship's dry mass.

for my grand tours, i use a single active shield (I actually carry several ones, but only for backup) and maxxed passive shielding.

 

thanks for the information but if you can edit this post with this answer becuase i am not sure if the active shields do stack...

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yes, the active shields do stack. as i said, i used 130 of them to protect from 5 rad/h solar storms.

the problem is, there's very little reason to try and stack them. to protect from the low background radiation, a single shield is enough. to protect from radiation belts and solar storms, you need over 100, which are generally too impractical.

2 shields is too much for background radiations, and still negligible against the higher radiation environments.

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For some reason the bluedog_LM_Ascent_Cockpit (LM Ascent Stage Cockpit) got food, water, scrubber, pressure - but no Oxygen at all.

That makes no sense, after inspecting all the KerbalismConfig patches that should not be the case.

see https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/issues/789

solved by https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/pull/771

Edited by Gordon Dry
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On 4/26/2020 at 9:52 PM, CreepyD said:

Bob took 330 'Atmosphere' on EVA in his spacesuit.
The Nitrogen was used to fill that 330 in the main craft.
Bob re-enters the ship, being there's no room  to add his almost 330 atmosphere back into the cockpit, it's dumped and lost.
Solution - turn off the pressure control pump before going on EVA.  Uses just 50 Nitrogen to EVA, that's more reasonable!

see https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/issues/790

I this related?

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Found a bug.

When i'm launching craft from VAB and my kerbals are in "EAS-1 External Command Seat" they have no EVA-resources.

https://i.imgur.com/E7vCynr.png

And when i'm leaving seat -- they still have no resources.

https://i.imgur.com/Pif0njE.png

But when i'm starting from capsule -- they have everything.

https://i.imgur.com/kU5UhB3.png

And then, when i'm leaving capsule and taking the "seat" -- all goes normal. They still have all.

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I just started a RP1/RO play through and I seem to remember a while back that there was a menu that you could use to start science collection without having to click directly on the part, but it seems to have been removed. Am I missing something?

Edit: Figured it out. It's the data button.

Edited by Greystone361
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Another question around Kerbalism.

So I noticed when I have a pod that can be pressurized nitrogen is used to keep the pressure. Now for example, when I make a craft with one pod and after few EVAs I run out of Nitrogen and get warning that there is no pressure anymore in the pod. Is there any way to calculate how many EVAs I can do with certain amount of nitrogen on board whilst I am still in VBA designing the craft?

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