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[1.5 - 1.10] Kerbalism 3.11


Sir Mortimer
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5 hours ago, cxg2827 said:

Can anyone confirm if it is intended for SSPX inflatables  to not allow shielding  to be added? I'm also noticing that I cannot configure them with a scrubber or another process via the PAW, but I'm thinking that may be some conflict with another mod I might have.

not sure about sspx inflatables, but there is already an inflatable part - the gravity ring - that does not allow shielding to be added. as far as i know, it's a glitch.

you can fix this in two ways:

1) produce shielding in situ. there are several processes to do that.

2) save the game, and edit the file.

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I just started playing with Kerbalism and either I found a bug or I don't know what I'm doing (probably the latter). I placed 2 goo canisters with symmetry, but then removed them from symmetry before assigning action groups. I assigned them to different action groups to start one running at launch and the other after reaching 70k altitude. When trying to engage the 2nd it gives me a message that it's already running even though I never activated it. Maybe I'm just not understanding something. the Wiki on this mod is seriously lacking for such a comprehensive mod also. I've seen better Wikis for parts-only mods. Is there a good tutorial that someone can recommend?

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57 minutes ago, pearldrumbum said:

I just started playing with Kerbalism and either I found a bug or I don't know what I'm doing (probably the latter). I placed 2 goo canisters with symmetry, but then removed them from symmetry before assigning action groups. I assigned them to different action groups to start one running at launch and the other after reaching 70k altitude. When trying to engage the 2nd it gives me a message that it's already running even though I never activated it. Maybe I'm just not understanding something. the Wiki on this mod is seriously lacking for such a comprehensive mod also. I've seen better Wikis for parts-only mods. Is there a good tutorial that someone can recommend?

don't know of any tutorial. and yes, i complained about the lacking wiki myself too. but the modders are working for free, can't ask too much of them.

that said, your problem is simple, and it's dictated by how kerbalism changes science. in kerbalism you do not run science like you do in stock.

in kerbalism, experiments don't run istantaneously like in stock. they take their time. a time that can vary between 30-something seconds for a crew report, to several years for some advanced scanners.

in kerbalism, experiments can be left on or off. if you leave and experiment on, it will run every time it has the right conditions, and it will keep running until its conditions are met.

so, you activate the first goo canister, and it is set to run while it's meeting the right conditions. you go through the lower atmosphere, the goo runs its experiment for low atmosphere. you go through high atmosphere, the goo keeps running experiment, this time for high atmosphere. you go through space, and it runs experiment for space. and you can't have two copies of the same experiment running on the same ship, so if you try to activate the second, it will tell you the first is still running.

now, some experiments - notably, the goo and the material study - have a limited amount of data they can produce, before they get exhausted. and then you have to send a new unit. the goo canister should last through 4 measurements if i remember correctly. i'm not sure if you can activate a second goo if the first is nominally running, but exhausted. worst scenario, you manually stop the first before running the second.

 

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3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

don't know of any tutorial. and yes, i complained about the lacking wiki myself too. but the modders are working for free, can't ask too much of them.

that said, your problem is simple, and it's dictated by how kerbalism changes science. in kerbalism you do not run science like you do in stock.

in kerbalism, experiments don't run istantaneously like in stock. they take their time. a time that can vary between 30-something seconds for a crew report, to several years for some advanced scanners.

in kerbalism, experiments can be left on or off. if you leave and experiment on, it will run every time it has the right conditions, and it will keep running until its conditions are met.

so, you activate the first goo canister, and it is set to run while it's meeting the right conditions. you go through the lower atmosphere, the goo runs its experiment for low atmosphere. you go through high atmosphere, the goo keeps running experiment, this time for high atmosphere. you go through space, and it runs experiment for space. and you can't have two copies of the same experiment running on the same ship, so if you try to activate the second, it will tell you the first is still running.

now, some experiments - notably, the goo and the material study - have a limited amount of data they can produce, before they get exhausted. and then you have to send a new unit. the goo canister should last through 4 measurements if i remember correctly. i'm not sure if you can activate a second goo if the first is nominally running, but exhausted. worst scenario, you manually stop the first before running the second.

 

Thank you for the explanation! This is all starting to make sense now...

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Ksp 1.12.3

When starting the game b9partswitch throws out 6 messages "initallization errors on moduleb9partswitch (module id='fuelselect' on part fuelcell/fuelcellarray subtype kerolox/raptalox/proplox    Could not find matching module" https://files.catbox.moe/xbw9pg.png https://files.catbox.moe/z36ile.png

Also I am having an issue. I'm playing and i am trying to create fuel cell electricity. However, pressurized tanks (and life support supply boxes) do not allow me to hold oxygen, nor hydrogen. https://files.catbox.moe/txa8lj.png The only thing that i found to hold oxygen/hydrogen (I can select them using tank UI) is mk1 command pod (other pods possibly too, however i am not that far into the save). Is it intended to be like that?

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What are the optimum orbits for the Orbital Telescope Observation requirement of "Max sun-surface angle: 55 degrees" and Irradiance Scan with "Min sun-surface angle: 5 degrees, Max sun-surface angle: 60 degrees"? Does it even make much difference in the long run? Is an equatorial orbit best because it will fulfill the requirement most regularly whereas a polar orbit will often be completely out of alignment?

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Ok so I've been playing with this mod for about a week now and have made a good dent in the tech tree. I'm getting to the point now that I want to build a station around Minmus with a lab and a reusable lander for science farming and some questions have come up that I can't find any documentation for, and google searches are only bringing up old reddit threads from like 2 years ago. As I understand it, Kerbalism has changed a lot in that time so here's my questions:

 

1. Can depleted sample experiments (sci jr and goo) ever be restored? I understand part of the challenge is the 1-and-done nature of these experiments but since I want to build a reusable lander for Minmus, I really don't want to put like 8 of each on what should be a fairly simple lander. I tried using a scientist to do it but there was no option to restore or 'clean' it. Do they need to be a certain level? I also read some passing comment without detail about how labs can restore them. So if I bring my lander back to a base with a lab, then I can restore it?

1b. Can labs process experiments that have already been archived with R&D? I've already done a Minmus mission where I returned goo and materials bay samples from high/low/landed around Minmus and looking at the archive it looks like they are not biome specific like the data-only experiments (and surface samples). Maybe my above question is pointless because I'll never need to run another goo or materials bay again on Minmus?

2. Habitation modules: like the Hitchhiker or various hab modules from Nertea's Station Parts mod show they have various upgrades as different nodes are unlocked. But I can't find anywhere what the heck these mean. Things like, FLIGHT, HERRING, FLOAT, LEAVE, STAKE, etc etc. What do those upgrades do??

2b. I read somewhere on an old reddit post about hab modules being able to heal radiation from Kerbals? I can't find any documentation on this or mentions of it in the part descriptions. Only thing I see is some of them have "Experience Management" for leveling up kerbals without having to return to Kerbin.

2c. With regards to the various setups/upgrades offered at different tech nodes. Are they applied automatically when that node is unlocked, or do I have to click the upgrade and purchase it? (I have purchasing parts after unlock turned on)

Edited by pearldrumbum
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4 minutes ago, pearldrumbum said:

Ok so I've been playing with this mod for about a week now and have made a good dent in the tech tree. I'm getting to the point now that I want to build a station around Minmus with a lab and a reusable lander for science farming and some questions have come up that I can't find any documentation for, and google searches are only bringing up old reddit threads from like 2 years ago. As I understand it, Kerbalism has changed a lot in that time so here's my questions:

 

1. Can depleted sample experiments (sci jr and goo) ever be restored? I understand part of the challenge is the 1-and-done nature of these experiments but since I want to build a reusable lander for Minmus, I really don't want to put like 8 of each on what should be a fairly simple lander. I tried using a scientist to do it but there was no option to restore or 'clean' it. Do they need to be a certain level? I also read some passing comment without detail about how labs can restore them. So if I bring my lander back to a base with a lab, then I can restore it?

no, they cannot be restored. Not even the lab can restore them; but the lab can have those experiments incorporated, so that the lab itself becomes the science jr - in addition to its other functionalities.

It still gets depleted after a while, but if you change its experiment - something you need a level 5 scientist to do - it can be sort of restored. I'm not exactly clear on how it works.

Anyway, especially given how heavy is a lab, I suggest that you bring 9 science jr attached on the end of your base, and then you use eva construction to swap them on your lander. much cheaper.

speaking of landers, remember to give it some redundant engines, and to bring some spare engines to swap in eva construction in case of need. it would be a tragedy if you lost the crew because the engine fails mid-descent.

Quote

 

2. Habitation modules: like the Hitchhiker or various hab modules from Nertea's Station Parts mod show they have various upgrades as different nodes are unlocked. But I can't find anywhere what the heck these mean. Things like, FLIGHT, HERRING, FLOAT, LEAVE, STAKE, etc etc. What do those upgrades do??

 

they are science experiments. they unlock the capability to run additional science experiments on the part.

Quote

 

2b. I read somewhere on an old reddit post about hab modules being able to heal radiation from Kerbals? I can't find any documentation on this or mentions of it in the part descriptions. Only thing I see is some of them have "Experience Management" for leveling up kerbals without having to return to Kerbin.

 

 

the hitchhicker container, once you research a certain tech, gains the radiation decontamination unit (RDU). To use it, you put a kerbal inside the hitchicker container, right click on the part, and you will have the option "RDU: heal [NAME]". It only heals one kerbal at a time, by roughly 1% radiation damage every four days. In the process, it consumes oxygen and produces CO2. The amounts are small, though, and if you have the right chemical plants you can revert this reaction almost entirely. Or you can use that CO2 to grow plants in a greenhouse.

Quote

2c. With regards to the various setups/upgrades offered at different tech nodes. Are they applied automatically when that node is unlocked, or do I have to click the upgrade and purchase it? (I have purchasing parts after unlock turned on)

they upgrade authomatically. I don't think they apply to older parts that you already launched, though I'm not sure

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I was wondering how best to shield ships and bases from CMEs (especially bases, since they are harder to orientate to the sun), so did some testing.

The first thing, is that it appears a raycast is done from the center of the habitat to the sun, and anything intersected counts as shielding: this means that a single surface mounted small battery can shield the habitat if it happens to be on that line between the sun and the center of the habitat.

The next thing: is that it seems putting anything in between the sun and the habitat module reduces radiation by a lot: a flag reduced radiation by about 74%, a solar panel reduced radiation by about 91%, a structural panel reduced radiation by 95%, a Cargo Bay reduced radiation by 99.4%.

Shielding layers stack well. Putting TWO flags between the habitat and the sun, reduced radiation by 86%, two solar panels reduced radiation by 99%.

I tested "standoff", whether moving the shielding object further from the ship improves shielding. It does, but by very very little. For example in a particular solar storm, a flag on the surface of the habitat reduced radiation to 0.444 rad/h, the same flag at the maximum extension of a 1P4 telescoping cylinder, reduced radiation to 0.441 rad/h. So there is an effect, but it's absolutely negligible. 

The surface attached part can be inside the habitat, that is fine. However if the raycast starts INSIDE a part, that part does not contribute to shielding: embedding a habitat inside a larger part such as a fuel tank does not help. However if the larger part has internal walls such as a structural tube or a service bay then it does work, the principle is probably that the raycast has to hit a wall you can't see through: essentially if you can see the sun, the sun's radiation can see you. Also it doesn't appear to check other vehicles, a Kerbal on EVA can't shelter in the shadow of a ship.

The upshot: higher density objects are more effective for radiation shielding, but they don't need to be very high density, solar panels work well, flags are a bit flimsy but significantly better than nothing. Stacking layers of shielding is probably far more effective than heavier shielding. Enclosing the habitat inside an object with inner walls like a cargo bay is useful. Standoff doesn't literally do nothing but is practically worthless.

A habitat in a base can be shielded simply by blanketing it in surface attached parts or placing it inside a cargo bay or service bay. If you don't want to know exploits don't read this next part:

Spoiler

of course the service bay could also be clipped inside the habitat because the raycast isn't very smart: a 1.25 m service bay enclosing the center of a habitat will shield the habitat from CME radiation regardless of orientation. Symmetry packing a large numbers of batteries or something around the center of the habitat also allows for extreme level of shielding for negligible investment: why shield the enter surface when you can shield a single point.


This is the measured in-game behaviour. It might not be the intended behaviour.

RTGs:

They produce essentially no radiation. Technically they do, but a Kerbal has to snuggle up against one to get an increased dose. They do nothing like 1m away. Don't clip one to the center of a habitat, don't put one on the wall of a very small habitat. Otherwise they do nothing and no shielding strategy is required. I don't have a fission reactor mod installed atm to test them.

LV-N "Nerv":

They produce even less radiation than an RTG which is saying something, and also produce no additional radiation when firing. A Kerbal on EVA has to snuggle up against one to get even half the dose of an RTG. Don't attach one directly to the bottom of an Mk1 lander can or something like that and otherwise they are irrelevant. I don't have any nuclear engine mod installed atm.

Edited by blakemw
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18 hours ago, blakemw said:

They produce essentially no radiation

This is correct behavior. RTGs release alpha particles, you can block them with a sheet of paper so the casing around the pellets is more than sufficient 

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41 minutes ago, Drew Kerman said:

This is correct behavior. RTGs release alpha particles, you can block them with a sheet of paper so the casing around the pellets is more than sufficient 

I had to actually, but actually in Kerbalism it appears to be based on90Sr because it has a halflife of 28.8 y, hence it emits beta radiation, which certainly has the penetrating power to get through the spacesuit of a Kerbal who disrespects the square cube law and decides to hug the RTG.

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13 minutes ago, blakemw said:

I had to actually, but actually in Kerbalism it appears to be based on90Sr because it has a halflife of 28.8 y, hence it emits beta radiation, which certainly has the penetrating power to get through the spacesuit of a Kerbal who disrespects the square cube law and decides to hug the RTG.

Beta radiation is stopped by thin layers of metal.  Spacesuit almost always have those.

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47 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Beta radiation is stopped by thin layers of metal.  Spacesuit almost always have those.

The quoted value for 90Sr beta emissions (which is higher energy than some other emitters) I found was 4 mm of aluminium which is much thicker than a spacesuit or the walls of something like the apollo lander. Of course the RTG thermocouples should also attenuate the radiation some. But basically no, a spacesuit or the walls of a light capsule won't block high energy beta radiation.

Edited by blakemw
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Hi All,

 

Just a quick question, is it normal for contracts that reward science to not give the science on completion? Is this something introduced with Kerbalism along with the other science changes or is my install borked?! 

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More questions... sorry. Before I sound like I'm just complaining all the time I want to state I really love this mod. I've played so much KSP over the years it has gotten boring, even with lots of mods. New parts are just new parts, but this mod introduces a whole new level of gameplay that makes things challenging and interesting so thank you mod creators!

 

Nitrogen... I cannot understand it. Seems most parts come with loads of it and there is no need to pack extra. I'll go for days or even months without even having to worry about nitrogen, but then all the sudden it just runs out like crazy. There doesn't seem to be any bad consequences from it though. Kerbals don't die or anything and even though it warns me I can't EVA, I still can. Can someone explain this part of the mechanic? Why can I go for long periods of time without any appreciable nitrogen loss but then all the sudden it seems to pick up and goes away in minutes? What is nitrogen actually used for? As I understand it it allows for more/longer EVAs but even when I am out the game allows me to EVA. I'm not sure if it is bugged or what.

 

Example: I built a rather large station around Minmus. It was in orbit with 2 kerbals on board for about a month and nitrogen was barely depleting. Then I brought 3 more kerbals with a lander to the station. Went down to the surface to do some science and come back. Now my nitrogen has completely run out in the time it took for the lander to go the surface, do one biome hop, and come back. Less than a day. 2 kerbals went to the surface, so only 1 extra kerbal was on board the station during this time. It should increase usage by 50% by adding 1 kerbal the crew, no? This happened before, although I don't remember the details because at the time I just assumed I did something wrong so I don't remember the exact circumstances except that it also involved docking/undocking a lander. It seems something happens when a docking event or transferring kerbals between different parts of a vessel causes extreme nitrogen usage. Or maybe I just am misunderstanding the entire mechanic. I dunno. Any enlightenment?

 

Edit: When I built my station in the SPH (I always build the entire thing in SPH before breaking into modules for launch), it tells me for 5 kerbals on board I have something like 7 years worth of nitrogen. It depleted the whole thing in about 4 hours after docking a lander

Edited by pearldrumbum
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4 hours ago, pearldrumbum said:

More questions... sorry. Before I sound like I'm just complaining all the time I want to state I really love this mod. I've played so much KSP over the years it has gotten boring, even with lots of mods. New parts are just new parts, but this mod introduces a whole new level of gameplay that makes things challenging and interesting so thank you mod creators!

 

Nitrogen... I cannot understand it. Seems most parts come with loads of it and there is no need to pack extra. I'll go for days or even months without even having to worry about nitrogen, but then all the sudden it just runs out like crazy. There doesn't seem to be any bad consequences from it though. Kerbals don't die or anything and even though it warns me I can't EVA, I still can. Can someone explain this part of the mechanic? Why can I go for long periods of time without any appreciable nitrogen loss but then all the sudden it seems to pick up and goes away in minutes? What is nitrogen actually used for? As I understand it it allows for more/longer EVAs but even when I am out the game allows me to EVA. I'm not sure if it is bugged or what.

 

Example: I built a rather large station around Minmus. It was in orbit with 2 kerbals on board for about a month and nitrogen was barely depleting. Then I brought 3 more kerbals with a lander to the station. Went down to the surface to do some science and come back. Now my nitrogen has completely run out in the time it took for the lander to go the surface, do one biome hop, and come back. Less than a day. 2 kerbals went to the surface, so only 1 extra kerbal was on board the station during this time. It should increase usage by 50% by adding 1 kerbal the crew, no? This happened before, although I don't remember the details because at the time I just assumed I did something wrong so I don't remember the exact circumstances except that it also involved docking/undocking a lander. It seems something happens when a docking event or transferring kerbals between different parts of a vessel causes extreme nitrogen usage. Or maybe I just am misunderstanding the entire mechanic. I dunno. Any enlightenment?

 

Edit: When I built my station in the SPH (I always build the entire thing in SPH before breaking into modules for launch), it tells me for 5 kerbals on board I have something like 7 years worth of nitrogen. It depleted the whole thing in about 4 hours after docking a lander

nitrogen is glitchy.

nitrogen is mostly needed to keep pressurized environments. without nitrogen, nothing bad will happen immediately, but your kerbals will get a lot more stress, and a lot more breakdowns. You see it only in very long missions, though. nitrogen is also needed to run greenhouses (to make ammonia for them) and to make monopropellant, but for most crafts, you only need pressure. and the amount of nitrogen consumed for that is tiny, so a single nitrogen tank will last for decades.

but when you go eva with an astronaut, you lose nitrogen. I'm not clear on the details, but it definitely looks like some bug, because in some cases you lose more than in others. You can tell some losses are intended because the game says something like "eva available" somewhere.

just bring an extra nitrogen tank and it will be enough to cover eva losses. if your problem persists, try to shut down every single pressure control unit in your station before going eva.

 

by the way, regarding internal pressure, be advised that a single unpressurized part (they are written as unpressurized in the vab menu) will make the whole station unpressurized, and will cause a lot of extra stress and problems. i had my 4000-ton megaship that was basically a spacefaring luxury resort, and the astronauts kept getting stressed anyway, because there was a single Mk1 pod in one of the landers, and those are unpressurized. when that got detached, astronauts stopped having stress issues almost by magic.

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On 1/5/2022 at 2:21 AM, king of nowhere said:

nitrogen is glitchy.

nitrogen is mostly needed to keep pressurized environments. without nitrogen, nothing bad will happen immediately, but your kerbals will get a lot more stress, and a lot more breakdowns. You see it only in very long missions, though. nitrogen is also needed to run greenhouses (to make ammonia for them) and to make monopropellant, but for most crafts, you only need pressure. and the amount of nitrogen consumed for that is tiny, so a single nitrogen tank will last for decades.

but when you go eva with an astronaut, you lose nitrogen. I'm not clear on the details, but it definitely looks like some bug, because in some cases you lose more than in others. You can tell some losses are intended because the game says something like "eva available" somewhere.

just bring an extra nitrogen tank and it will be enough to cover eva losses. if your problem persists, try to shut down every single pressure control unit in your station before going eva.

 

by the way, regarding internal pressure, be advised that a single unpressurized part (they are written as unpressurized in the vab menu) will make the whole station unpressurized, and will cause a lot of extra stress and problems. i had my 4000-ton megaship that was basically a spacefaring luxury resort, and the astronauts kept getting stressed anyway, because there was a single Mk1 pod in one of the landers, and those are unpressurized. when that got detached, astronauts stopped having stress issues almost by magic.

I believe you can disable the mk1 pod as a habitat instead of detaching it?

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20 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

I believe you can disable the mk1 pod as a habitat instead of detaching it?

in theory, yes. in practice, it's glitchy. and you can't do it on a ship flying; the moment you use the pod, it's an habitat and you can't change it.

the safest way to disable the habitat functionality is to edit the save file. I did it, and it worked.

you can check if it works because you can see the internal pressure of your ship among the data on the panels in the upper right of the screen

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How do I stuff more life support resources aboard a craft? I'm wanting to recreate Soyuz 9 with an 18 day mission but the Tantares Soyuz alone doesn't hold enough for that let alone with only 2 crew members.

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