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[WIP] September Progression Overhaul 0.2.1 (2022/11/28)


septemberWaves

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Current stage of development (0.2.1, 2022/11/28): I've spent the last few days rebuilding the tech tree from scratch using Yongetech Tech Trees Plugin Revived and Tech Tree Editor Revived. I've made more progress in the past three days than I did in the entire duration of time I spent working on this modpack previously due to the extent to which these two mods have allowed me to accelerate the process of adding nodes and parts to the tech tree. I'm currently working on configuring a custom Kerbalism profile.

 

Overview

As the name implies, the purpose of this project is to overhaul the game's progression. I am aiming to create a coherent modpack with sensible progression, and a level of difficulty somewhere in between the stock game and Realism Overhaul.

Initially what inspired me to do this was the fact that, when playing with large collections of mods, the tech tree quickly ceases to make sense (and even with some good tech tree overhauls like CTT, unsupported mods can easily shift progression away from the realm of logic). This would've end up being just another tech tree rework (and the first stage of development will be just that), but I want to make a few more changes beyond the scope of yet another tech tree mod, and this number of planned changes has increased to include a few major overhauls. Additionally, there are often empty nodes in the tree when using any mod that expands its structure, and I'd like to avoid that issue while leaving my tech tree intact - the obvious way of doing this is by making some mods required, hence the need to make a modpack. I'd also like to balance this to be well-suited for use with the JNSQ planet pack.

The tech tree as it currently stands in version 0.2.1 is balanced around Bluedog Design Bureau as a core mod. Almost everything in BDB is fully integrated into the tech tree, though as of writing this (2022/11/28) it's not yet playtestable in a career game. The focus on US technology is simply because it is by far the most comprehensive option available in mods.

Additionally, while any planet pack can hypothetically be used, everything is tested using JNSQ. All historical parts will be (once I finish the Kerbalism config) balanced so that they can accomplish the closest JNSQ equivalent to their historical purpose - no more having to clip life support containers into the Apollo capsule just to do a Mun mission. All parts based on concepts (like Constellation, or the fictional Eyes Turned Skyward) will be similarly balanced according to their conceptual purpose, and whatever remains will be balanced so that it fits in as well as possible.

 

Roadmap

  1. Custom Kerbalism science (current stage)
  2. Complete balance patches for current core mods (BDB, CNAR, modified Taerobee)
  3. Tech node cost allocation
  4. Part failure mod integration (which part failure mod to use is currently undecided)
  5. Shuttle-era to modern era tech tree expansion & balance patches
  6. Proper aircraft balance
  7. Contract overhaul
  8. Near-future and beyond tech tree expansion & balance patches
  9. Difficulty enhancements (engine throttle & ignition limitations, reaction wheel nerf, possibly other things)
  10. Additional mod support beyond core requirements
  11. Tech node icons & descriptions (I'm not sure when this will be done, but it is currently low priority)

 

Thanks to:

  • @linuxgurugamer for maintaining many of the vital mods which make things like this practical
  • @610yesnolovely for allowing me to use (a modified version of) their CNAR-Taerobee configs
Edited by septemberWaves
slight roadmap change
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Wow, this sounds really similar to ideas I have been kicking around in my head forever but just don't have the time to really knuckle down and figure out.  I have a feeling that there are a lot of people that would enjoy a techtree/contract pack mod that are specifically tailored to both BDB and NF mods and of course JNSQ. I also enjoy using Kerbalism, If I could figure anything out it would be some way to integrate colonization mods into Kerbalism as well. 

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If by "colonization" you mean Modular Kolonization Systems and the other USI mods, those will not be supported by this pack. There are simply other mods that I prefer for everything that the USI series does (besides the aspects of it that are beyond the technological range I intend to cover, such as FTT and the warp drive). Additionally, since they are designed specifically for use with USI Life Support, they would most likely be more difficult than most mods to properly integrate with Kerbalism.

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  • 5 months later...

I will be streaming some early development playtesting at around 8pm GMT, on my Twitch channel (https://www.twitch.tv/septemberwaves). Playtesting at this stage consists predominantly of just running a career playthrough with many of the major mods, but without any changes from the modpack itself, so that I can get a clear impression of what changes need to be made and take notes to that effect.

EDIT: No longer live.

 

Edited by septemberWaves
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An update on development progress: I would estimate that anywhere between 5% and 15% of the tech tree structure is complete, including most of the parts that fit in those nodes having been moved there. The reason for the uncertainty is that the complexity of the tech tree increases at later tiers (because there are more different kinds of technology available), but I am unsure to what extent the complexity will increase further as planning and development goes on. Additionally, I have done next to no planning of the aviation section of the tech tree (aside from some aerodynamics-related nodes that are important for rocket-building), as I have much less experience with planes than with rockets and will need to do a lot more testing before I feel confidently able to balance aircraft parts properly.

Aside from the tech tree, most of the main mods planned for inclusion are decided upon, and my current playtesting, as mentioned in my previous post in this thread, is being done for the purpose of solidifying the play style I would like to balance the modpack around, and finding the changes that need to be made via Module Manager to suit that play style. I have a good overall understanding of my direction for this project; the playtesting is for finding specifics. Both playtesting and modpack development are currently on KSP version 1.9.1; updating to 1.10 (and any future versions) will only be done once all necessary mods (most importantly, JNSQ) are updated (or at the very least are functional) on the game version in question.

On the topic of the playtesting: should I continue to make stream announcements here (because it is playtesting for the modpack and an opportunity to discuss plans, progress, and ideas), or should I make a separate thread in Mission Reports (because playtesting currently consists of gameplay without my custom tech tree and other changes, since they are incomplete)?

A final note: the reason there have been no updates from January until now is not because it has taken me all this time to make this amount of progress; it is because I became somewhat burned out with regards to the game and this project. That issue seems to be resolved as of right now (and I am hopeful that a side effect of playtesting will be maintaining my ability to focus on the game and enjoy it), but my ability to focus on any particular task for very long is inconsistent so I can make no predictions as to a timeline for my development of this modpack. What can be expected is that development will progress reasonably fast when I am able to focus on it, but I have no way of knowing exactly how consistent that ability to focus will be.

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NkkUIOr.png

The tech tree as it currently stands looks like this. Much of the general structure of the branches is likely to remain consistent to where it is right now. Likely subject to the most changes will be the science branch (since I am not fully satisfied with the solution of putting all science parts in a single branch of the tech tree, but I have yet to decide upon an alternative that I prefer), and the aircraft branches (since I am not yet confident in my abilities to properly balance aircraft parts.

Many nodes that are parallel in this version of the tech tree will likely not be parallel in the final version. The current state of the tech tree layout is designed to allow me to determine which technological developments should follow from other technological developments, but in a later version (when all nodes are in place and I have a clearer understanding of science costs) I will spread out nodes in the horizontal direction to better reflect somewhat-realistic development timelines.

An additional major change to the tech tree structure that can be expected in future is the amount of vertical connection between branches. Currently there is very limited vertical connection except for at the start of each tech tree branch, but later there will be more connections as similar technologies are tied together with logical prerequisites. In particular, the satellites branch and the various technologies associated with crewed spacecraft are likely to have the most cross-branch prerequisites, as these parts are more conceptually complex.

It may not have escaped some people's attention that there are two nodes with non-default icons that I have not labelled and that are not properly connected to the rest of the tech tree. These are vestiges of the stock tech tree; the way I have hidden the stock tech tree is by setting hideEmpty to True for all stock nodes, and then moving every part that exists in the game into the default node (which costs one million science points and is not intended to do anything other than assist with my development by showing me which parts are unassigned). The two nodes left over have a part in them because Kerbalism unlocks certain configurable modules in these nodes, and I have yet to make a temporary patch to Kerbalism to change this.

Something else I would like to point out is that in the gap where I mention space station parts will be, there is also going to be a branch for crewed lander pods. Additionally, the separate Tantares and BDB spacecraft branches will merge into a single crewed spacecraft branch once past the point where the crewed spacecraft parts from both mods are exhausted. The reason there are two branches is because development progresses at different rates for each and the science costs will not be the same for each node, although the total science cost of each branch will be identical. It will not be necessary to complete both.

 

One more thing I would like to update you all on is my preliminary playtesting. Thus far, what I have found and noted that I need to do specific testing/modifying of is as follows:

  • Test and potentially modify parameters of both Kosmos rockets so that they will work properly with MechJeb's primer vector guidance both with and without FAR. Currently, with FAR installed, both Kosmos rockets flip uncontrollably after first stage separation when carrying a payload to a 90km parking orbit with what should be sufficient delta-v. I have yet to test them without FAR. Additionally, the RCS thrusters on the Kosmos 2I upper stage engine do not appear to function, so I need to find the cause of that.
  • Reduce payload capacity of Soyuz rocket (likely by reducing specific impulse of the engines). Currently it is overpowered for JNSQ, and this needs to be changed.
  • Reduce payload capacity of Zenit rocket. Compared to where I would like the Soyuz rocket to be in terms of payload, Zenit is overpowered as well. However, this has the caveat that I will also need to ensure that Energia has the right capacity after modifications made to Zenit (I have yet to test Energia at all).
  • Slightly increase payload capacity of Proton rocket. Similar case with the others except this time the rocket is underpowered. It can reasonably transport only about a tonne more than Zenit into low Kerbin orbit as things currently stand. Obviously rebalancing Zenit will contribute to increasing the divide between the two, but Proton alone still feels somewhat underpowered.
  • Based upon the aforementioned points, I get the impression that I will also need to adjust the balance of the N1 (specifically, balancing it around the typical N1-L3 stack) and Energia. Both of these also need to be notably more capable than Proton.
  • Need to test USI fuel cell capabilities extensively. Desired balance is so that two of them can properly power the Soyuz 7K-LOK, and no more than four can power the standard Apollo spacecraft, in both cases for the duration of a Munar mission. However, I may have to adjust my parameters for these conditions as I have yet to do testing on the power consumption of the standard Apollo spacecraft so I still do not know how it compares to Soyuz 7K-LOK.
  • Add Kerbalism space station experiments to space station parts which do not have access to them already. This will be part of the science rebalancing when I adjust the positions of experiment unlocks in the tech tree. I have noticed in my testing with Tantares that none of the Kerbalism experiments exist by default in Tantares space station modules, which is something that needs to be changed.
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I use Restock and Restock+, both because I like them and because they make the aesthetic of stock parts more coherent when combined with the Near Future mods. Ultimately, Restock alone doesn't make much of a difference to the balancing of stock parts, but Restock+ does introduce additional parts to the tech tree, and these will be included. I have no plans to also integrate Ven's Stock Revamp.

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  • 3 months later...

How will you balance the NF Electrical power system with kerbalisms radiation system? I've heard that they don't play well with each other.

Also, will FFT and its dependencies be integrated into this pack in any way, these mods would be great for endgame JNSQ.

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22 hours ago, Mr_Thursty said:

How will you balance the NF Electrical power system with kerbalisms radiation system? I've heard that they don't play well with each other.

Also, will FFT and its dependencies be integrated into this pack in any way, these mods would be great for endgame JNSQ.

I have not yet looked into that part of the balance. I am mostly still constructing the tech tree, and currently I am specifically working on updating to 1.10.1 as well, which means I need to check through everything I had already configured in 1.9.1 and account for updates to several key mods.

As for Far Future Technologies, I don't think I was aware of it when I started this project, so I had no plans to use it. I know very little about it, but if it is balanced to work as a logical next step after the Near Future suite, then I will strongly consider including it when it is released.

EDIT: Regarding balancing, in most cases I will prioritize Kerbalism's functionality over anything else.

Edited by septemberWaves
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The tech tree layout will change significantly from the image I previously posted by the time the modpack is actually playable. Most of the branches will be approximately the same, but there are a few major changes I need to make.

In particular, I will probably remove a node from the sounding rocket branch, because that portion of the game will be universally similar across all saves due to the limited available parts, so I want to shorten it to avoid monotony; I don't think I will necessarily make sounding rockets obsolete after the start (I may introduce some simple contracts for sounding rockets, and additional scientific payloads for them over time), but I certainly want people to get to the more interesting parts of the tech tree sooner.

Additionally, the science branch will not be a single line of nodes. I have still not decided exactly how I want to lay it out, but the gist of what I want to do with it is splitting up similar types of experiment into their own branches (e.g. materials science branch, imaging branch, crew experiments branch, etc.). Science nodes will likely have a lot of prerequisite nodes across the tech tree (including other science nodes of a similar tier) and be very costly, to prevent players from simply researching every available science node first and then having all science experiments available from the start. Another balancing method will be the fact that a lot of experiments will be custom Kerbalism experiments, which won't necessarily be available in every pod/probe core/station part.

Edited by septemberWaves
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  • 2 years later...

Tech tree has been rebuilt from the ground up for version 0.2.1, and now uses Yongetech Tech Trees Plugin Revived as a hard requirement. The modpack should have a vaguely-functional playtestable alpha release once I've configured Kerbalism and added costs to tech tree nodes, which I will hopefully be able to do soon.

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