How in hell does deployed science work?

[MisterBennock]

Okay, so I set up my deployed science on Eve. After reaching orbit I noticed I had no communication device set up. Okay, sending a rover with a relay and regular antenna to get some distance. 

Then I noticed that the basic module has a first hop distance of something like 33 Mm. It just directly communicates with a satellite in Eve orbit. 

Now my question is: Why is the science not transmitted? Weather analyzer and Mystery Goo station have 100% science generated, but still at 0% transmitted data. I have two RTGs with a total of 6 power set up. The modules are powered, but not "enabled".

I really don't understand how that stuff works and I am a bit bummed out because I have contracts open for those things. I am on 1.8.1, if that's important.

[Draalo]

Is a controll station present?

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Probodobodyne_Experiment_Control_Station

 

[AHHans]

16 hours ago, MisterBennock said:

After reaching orbit I noticed I had no communication device set up. Okay, sending a rover with a relay and regular antenna to get some distance. 

Well, you don't need an extra antenna if you have a relay (network) in place, that the "communotron 16"-class antenna in the control station can reach. The extra deployable antenna "just" always allows you direct connections to the (fully upgraded) KSC if you have line-of-sight.

16 hours ago, MisterBennock said:

It just directly communicates with a satellite in Eve orbit. 

I believe that the deployed science uses the same path finding algorithm as all other craft, so it may or may not use a certain relay depending on what gives it the best connection.

But do I understand you correctly that you didn't have a working connection all or most of the time until you got the rover into place? Did you get several "experiment generated science but is lacking a connection" messages?

16 hours ago, MisterBennock said:

Weather analyzer and Mystery Goo station have 100% science generated, but still at 0% transmitted data. [...] The modules are powered, but not "enabled".

Yes, that's IMHO a bug in the implementation.

I think that the deployed science works in the way that it checks every now and then (in the first version way too often, now (in 1.8.1) maybe every 10 precentage-points of generated science) if it is powered, there is a connection, and it has science to transmit. Then you either get a "experiment generated and transmitted X amount of science" message, or a "experiment generated science but is lacking a connection" message (or a "experiment is not powered" message, but that shouldn't happen with RTGs). If it doesn't have a connection at one time but does have one at a later time, then it will transmit all the accumulated science. But if it already is at 100% generated science then it will not check again, even if not all (or none...) of the science has been transmitted.

The only reliable way to fix that is to walk up with a Kerbal (preferably a scientist) to the experiment, pick it up, and place it again, thus resetting the whole experiment. I don't know if "just" walking up to it, and hitting "enable experiment" in the PAW will work.

Edited January 31, 2020 by AHHans
added a missing "always" and version number

[MisterBennock]

3 hours ago, AHHans said:

Well, you don't need an extra antenna if you have a relay (network) in place, that the "communotron 16"-class antenna in the control station can reach. The extra deployable antenna "just" allows you direct connections to the (fully upgraded) KSC if you have line-of-sight.

I believe that the deployed science uses the same path finding algorithm as all other craft, so it may or may not use a certain relay depending on what gives it the best connection.

Okay, that's good to know. So many antennae set up without need

 

3 hours ago, AHHans said:

But do I understand you correctly that you didn't have a working connection all or most of the time until you got the rover into place? Did you get several "experiment generated science but is lacking a connection" messages?

Sorry, that was written in a confusing way, here is the current situation:

- Science was deployed, but without deployed antenna

- I noticed that and sent a rover on its way

- The rover will still take a few months to arrive at Eve, but in the meantime I noticed I DO have a connection to the KSC

 

Since I had a satellite in Eve orbit even before I landed there, I assume the connection has always been there, but I didn't notice because I thought I needed the extra antenna on the ground. And that is the point where I wonder why no data has been transmitted. But if it is, as you said, a bug, I might force the game to give me these contracts. I really have no problem cheating my way around bugs and glitches that wouldn't be there if people had put a bit more effort in it.

[AHHans]

32 minutes ago, MisterBennock said:

Since I had a satellite in Eve orbit even before I landed there, I assume the connection has always been there,

Well, if you don't have a relay network around Eve that will give you 100% coverage, then you'll always have times when the station won't have a connection. If it happens to only try to transmit at these times without a connection, then you'll miss all the data...

The one way to be sure is to pay attention to the messages that are coming in while the deployed experiments are running.

P.S.

3 hours ago, AHHans said:

The extra deployable antenna "just" allows you direct connections to the (fully upgraded) KSC if you have line-of-sight.

There is an "always" missing in there...

[MisterBennock]

8 hours ago, AHHans said:

Well, if you don't have a relay network around Eve that will give you 100% coverage, then you'll always have times when the station won't have a connection. If it happens to only try to transmit at these times without a connection, then you'll miss all the data...

Wait, so you mean that the transmission is set to specific intervals and if there is no connection when it tries to transmit the data is simply lost? I can't remember any science messages. I also had the ion detector on Minmus sitting at 56 % transmitted science for quite some time until I had enough and picked it up.

[AHHans]

51 minutes ago, MisterBennock said:

Wait, so you mean that the transmission is set to specific intervals and if there is no connection when it tries to transmit the data is simply lost?

Well, not necessarily lost, but stored until the next try. It is "only" lost if none of the tries are successful and the generated science has reached 100%.

51 minutes ago, MisterBennock said:

I can't remember any science messages.

Well, then something is wrong. Either your memory, or in your game. Whatever happens, each "try" should generate a message, either saying that new science was transmitted or saying why it wasn't transmitted.

Do you use any mods that change the number of deployed science messages? Or the the amount of time-warping you can do?

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by AHHans
fixed typo

[MisterBennock]

10 minutes ago, AHHans said:

Well, not necessarily lost, but stored until the next try. It it "only" lost if none of the tries are successful and the generated science has reached 100%.

Oh, so then that's probably. No connection until it had reached 100 %. Well excrements.

 

11 minutes ago, AHHans said:

Well, then something is wrong. Either your memory, or in your game. Whatever happens, each "try" should generate a message, either saying that new science was transmitted or saying why it wasn't transmitted.

Do you use any mods that change the number of deployed science messages? Or the the amount of time-warping you can do?

Yeah, could be my memory. I did that whole mission basically half-asleep. Wasn't the smartest thing to do.

I only use BetterTimeWarp.

[AHHans]

14 minutes ago, MisterBennock said:

I only use BetterTimeWarp.

Well, I had exactly that in mind when I asked about time-warping mods. I don't know! But I wouldn't be surprised if high time-warps with BetterTimeWarp mess with the deployed science mechanic in a way that suppresses the messages. But, well, I don't know!

[MisterBennock]

Might be, I wouldn't surprised if anything like that could happen. Maybe 1.9 will fix some of it. Thanks anyways.