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[1.9.1] SimpleConstruction - Stock rocket building (Version 4.0.2.6)[2020 04 07]


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EL-Manual

3 hours ago, Dr Farnsworth said:

I was wondering if there were any instructions on how to use your new micro dock. Every time I try to build with it the new part is not attached the the parent, or it's upside down

I had issues also - and had to experiment until I got it right - then save it as a subassembly (station arms) But once you get the hang of it...

the best answer I have for the micropad (not the control reference which isn't what I thought it was, and has be depreciated) - is the EL-Manual - remember - this is the FULL manual and not written for SimpleConstruction!. I have also added that to the OP.

from page 14 (edited for clarity):

Spoiler

2.5.3. Micro-PadThe micro-pad is a single-use construction point. When the build is finalized, the padself-destructs and the build is attached to the parent vessel as if the build had been placed there in the editor (VAB or SPH). Also, the micro-pad can be carried on a kerbal’s back using KIS[5].

The orientation and position of the build is controlled by the combination of the orientation and position of the micro-pad, and the automatically selected attach node of the root part.

The colored diamonds on the micro-pad indicate the orientation of the root part when its bottom node is selected (red = +X, blue = +Z, cyan = -X, yellow =-Z[14].

It is important to remember that when the micro-pad is facing up, the root part’s selected node will be facing down, having been rotated around the part’s Z axis.

The micro-pad automatically selects the attach node of the root part by searching for the first available (unattached) node. First the bottom node is checked, then the top node, then any remaining nodes in the order they are found. Thus a small amount of control over which node is selected can be obtained simply by attaching parts to the undesired nodes

note :
x = left-to-right (red - cyan)
y = top-to-bottom (blue)
z = front-to-back (yellow)

 

3 hours ago, Dr Farnsworth said:

Also, having a stock part analog of the EL launch clamp would keep our bases from slowly crawling away.

I am working on this several ways. One is the patch(es) above.

Second is an old mod called 'Foundations' (you will find it in my GitHub - very beta right now) which allows you to literally create a foundation using the PAW (right-click menu) with parts that are touching terra firma - it creates a very strong connection point. Has some issues...

Third is am looking to add another part to Not So Simple Construction - from another of @taniwha's mods that does what you are asking for.

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That (having some way to afix bases to the ground) would be great.It's one of the bigger annoyances that I've run into that bases don't stay put. Some crawl around (and sometimes even crawl into each other if you have multiple ones close together). Others do a whiplash thing on scene load. Some go flying into the air, possibly with fatal results. Gilly is particularly prone to bases flying into the air. I've fiddled with lots of things, but haven't yet gotten anything that really solves it consistently. None of this seems particularly realistic.

 

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2 hours ago, rmaine said:

That (having some way to afix bases to the ground) would be great.It's one of the bigger annoyances that I've run into that bases don't stay put. Some crawl around (and sometimes even crawl into each other if you have multiple ones close together). Others do a whiplash thing on scene load. Some go flying into the air, possibly with fatal results. Gilly is particularly prone to bases flying into the air. I've fiddled with lots of things, but haven't yet gotten anything that really solves it consistently. None of this seems particularly realistic.

 

Well, Foundations *seems* to permanently fix the issue - but might have issues with worldstabilizer, the cheat menu, VesselMover, and/or Hyperedit. haven't tried with the 1st two, and the second two does a rapid unplanned joint explosion where the Foundation part is attached to the rest of the vessel. Imagine pulling a weed out by its root, and it snaps, just above the ground. I mean you could use it if you remember to detach the foundation (PAW menu) before moving.... and just haven't tried with worldstabilizer.

 

Still it is in the queue. :D

Until then - you could look at USI-Core - it might have the ability to tether vessels to the ground.

Edited by zer0Kerbal
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13 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

Well, Foundations *seems* to permanently fix the issue - but might have issues with worldstabilizer, the cheat menu, VesselMover, and/or Hyperedit. haven't tried with the 1st two, and the second two does a rapid unplanned joint explosion where the Foundation part is attached to the rest of the vessel. Imagine pulling a weed out by its root, and it snaps, just above the ground. I mean you could use it if you remember to detach the foundation (PAW menu) before moving.... and just haven't tried with worldstabilizer.

 

Still it is in the queue. :D

Until then - you could look at USI-Core - it might have the ability to tether vessels to the ground.

I once tried wordstabilizer. A brief test seemed to help with 2 of my bases that were a bit prone to problems. So I started playing using it. Before long I was at a base that had previously been fine, so I hadn't tested it. Broke the base right in two. :-( That was the end of my trying it out. I can't tell what's in USI-Core without installing it. I don't know an easy way to tell what parts a mod adds if it isn't documented separately somewhere, Guess I could try installing it to see.

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21 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

EL-Manual

I had issues also - and had to experiment until I got it right - then save it as a subassembly (station arms) But once you get the hang of it...

the best answer I have for the micropad (not the control reference which isn't what I thought it was, and has be depreciated) - is the EL-Manual - remember - this is the FULL manual and not written for SimpleConstruction!. I have also added that to the OP.

from page 14 (edited for clarity):

  Hide contents

2.5.3. Micro-PadThe micro-pad is a single-use construction point. When the build is finalized, the padself-destructs and the build is attached to the parent vessel as if the build had been placed there in the editor (VAB or SPH). Also, the micro-pad can be carried on a kerbal’s back using KIS[5].

The orientation and position of the build is controlled by the combination of the orientation and position of the micro-pad, and the automatically selected attach node of the root part.

The colored diamonds on the micro-pad indicate the orientation of the root part when its bottom node is selected (red = +X, blue = +Z, cyan = -X, yellow =-Z[14].

It is important to remember that when the micro-pad is facing up, the root part’s selected node will be facing down, having been rotated around the part’s Z axis.

The micro-pad automatically selects the attach node of the root part by searching for the first available (unattached) node. First the bottom node is checked, then the top node, then any remaining nodes in the order they are found. Thus a small amount of control over which node is selected can be obtained simply by attaching parts to the undesired nodes

note :
x = left-to-right (red - cyan)
y = top-to-bottom (blue)
z = front-to-back (yellow)

 

I am working on this several ways. One is the patch(es) above.

Second is an old mod called 'Foundations' (you will find it in my GitHub - very beta right now) which allows you to literally create a foundation using the PAW (right-click menu) with parts that are touching terra firma - it creates a very strong connection point. Has some issues...

Third is am looking to add another part to Not So Simple Construction - from another of @taniwha's mods that does what you are asking for.

I have tried a multitude of way to get the part to be built pointing the correct direction. So far, no luck. I am not seeing any colored diamonds anywhere. Should they be in the editor or when I am building?

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14 minutes ago, Dr Farnsworth said:

I have tried a multitude of way to get the part to be built pointing the correct direction. So far, no luck. I am not seeing any colored diamonds anywhere. Should they be in the editor or when I am building?

kakkakalaco

forgot *faceplant* that SimpleConstruction! only has the stock version - so no colored arrows. NSSC! has the full micropad.

They are on the full micropad's texture.

I personally just kept experimenting - (build - launch -  recall to editor) - sad, but ... am trying to think of another way.

What worked for me is building it upside down IIRC, and taking notes. lots of notes as I built it. sucks. :(

5 hours ago, rmaine said:

I don't know an easy way to tell what parts a mod adds if it isn't documented separately somewhere, Guess I could try installing it to see.

suggest making a copy of your save game or just making another save to test things. You can also look into the .zip file and see what it adds, or its directory under gamedata.

https://github.com/BobPalmer/UmbraSpaceIndustries/releases

has the thing I am talking about. I personally haven't tried it - so if you aren't comfortable/not an advanced player - don't try it.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/26/2020 at 10:34 PM, Dr Farnsworth said:

Also, having a stock part analog of the EL launch clamp would keep our bases from slowly crawling away.

You can just get the stock clamp or FASA Inline clamp in KIS container and attach it to your base anywhere, directly from the container to base, don`t take it into inventory or drop on the soil, then go to tracking station, then back. The clamp will freeze completely, and the base will hang on it, as long as the clamp is attached. Oh, and you definitely can try AirPark Continued! Don`t forget to disable AutoUnpark if you do so.

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A bit of a note about ground construction (in general, not the mod)...

While it might help prevent your base from sliding around, simply anchoring your base's parts to the ground, no matter how securely, will not help one little bit in keeping the kraken away if the base's root part sags. This is due to how KSP handles a vessel going on rails (yes, on, not off).

KSP records the root-part relative positions and orientations of each part of the vessel. Normally, these never change (robotics parts do change them).

When a vessel goes on rails, KSP snaps all parts back to their recorded positions and orientations. This can be seen when a wobbly wet-noodle rocket goes on rails (ie, you start time-warping, assuming you can get into time-warp): the rocket snaps straight.

For a grounded vessel, there are always sagging parts (some more, some less: depends on local gravity, part mass, joint spring strength (not breaking strength), how far the part is from a more securely supported part, etc etc). Obviously, the sagging causes flexing. Thus when going on rails, the parts are snapped back to their recorded root-relative positions.

It is the position (and orientation) of the root part that determines the vessel's position etc when going on rails, and the vessel's position and orientation dictate's the root part's position and orientation when going off rails.

Thus, when a ground base's root part sags, even though it may not look it, the whole base sags: when the base goes on rails, the base's location is determined by the root part, and all the supporting structure is snapped into position relative to that, resulting in the supporting parts being forced into the ground. Then, when the base goes off rails, the support parts' colliders are in the ground and PhysX forces them out resulting in possibly extremely violent forces acting on your base, possibly throwing it away from the ground or even tearing your base apart.

What I have found to help is two simple things:

  1. keep the segment with the root part as light as possible
  2. ensure the root part's segment is very well supported an does not sag (no springy suspensions!)

The above, particularly #2, is where building bases using launch clamps really helps out: they support the root part: not only keeping it from sagging, but keeping it level. The rest of the base can sag all it wants: the parts will be snapped away from the ground rather than into it.

Of course, building a base with launch clamps comes with its own problems: difficulty of access (the useful segments can be up quite high, especially on hilly terrain), and it's nowhere near as easy to extend a base.

The former issue... well, that's part of the game, really: coming up with solutions to problems :)

The latter: that's one reason I made the micro-pad (the module, not so much the part itself). I made it for more solid station/ship building, and also easier base extension.

 

As for EL's launch clamps: there's really only two things special about them: they rotate early (makes for better build-size calculations) and they support cloned segments (for Diamond Grid's NoLaunchClamp), and there's nothing needed to be done for stock launch clamps: EL automatically replaces them with its own version (just a cloned part with a replacement module) when building (the cloning is in EL_MM.cfg)

I hope this helps the longevity of your bases.

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Thanks taniwha. That's useful data. I had figured out about avoiding springy suspensions. For supply ships to my Gilly base, I avoid landing gear as they aren't needed for landing there and Gilly is really bad about launching things high into the air on scene load; I just stick a few horizontal beams out from the base of my lander part to help with stability on the ground there.

On the root part in particular sagging. Hmm. I already have gotten into making my root pretty minimal - just enough to conveniently be able to expand from (using simple construction). But you give me the idea of trying to set it on a local high spot or maybe something to jack it up just a tiny bit; I'll have to think further on that.

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I found if you edit the first line in Resources.cfg RESOURCE_DEFINITION //:NEEDS[!CommunityResourcePack  to  RESOURCE_DEFINITION //:NEEDS[!CommunityResourcePack then it no longer needs CRP. IDK if this impacts other part mods down the road but by itself it works. 

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  • 1 month later...

Just tried it with 1.10 and I get a compatibility error that prevents KSP from loading. It says that launchpad is not compatible. Just FYI and to see if others experience the same result. No rush on an update. Thanks so much for these "Simple" mods!

EDIT:

The thing preventing KSP load was a Simple Logistics patch problem that is known with a workaround available in the Simple Logistics thread. 

Edited by JedTech
update
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1 hour ago, NateDaBeast said:

Wanted to try this mod, but it appears to not work for me. Specifically work with Rational Resources (For JNSQ) and B9PartSwitch. Kept getting the error I posted below until I removed this mod:

0MNMFVN.png

Do you have Community Resource Pack installed?

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1 hour ago, NateDaBeast said:

Yes.

Maybe try EL?  At least to test for compatibility.  This mod is basically EL's DLL with some modulemanager patches to add functionality to stock parts.  Go to the source mod and see if you get the errors?

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

I'm having an issue with the tanks not able to be switched to rocket parts. Tried installing again to no avail, I have all of the dependencies and am running on 1.8.1. No option on any tanks to switch to rocket parts or metals. No errors on startup either.

Edited by frogs114
clarify
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  • 1 month later...

I recently take knowledge of this mod and it is amazing but I would like to ask about an issue I am having. The cost of the small tank increased from 1000 (without SimpleConstruction) to 31000 in the ore, metal and rocket parts configurations and 6438 for the jumbo. :o

Are this prices correct?

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  • 3 months later...

I have tried installing it in 1.11 and even though i got the incompatibility error the mod works fine, however you get a random srb plume if you start building crafts with an SRB. I like to think that the kerbals just had an accdient while producing solid fuel :D unknown.png?width=943&height=589

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  • 2 months later...

I remember that ELP (at least I think it was from that mod) had a big funnel-like thingy you could fly scrap parts and vessels into that would dismantle it completely into construction resources.

Is there something similar in SimpleConstruction? Or how would I go about putting it in?

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3 hours ago, KerbMav said:

I remember that ELP (at least I think it was from that mod) had a big funnel-like thingy you could fly scrap parts and vessels into that would dismantle it completely into construction resources.

Is there something similar in SimpleConstruction? Or how would I go about putting it in?

Well given that this mod is basically just the ELP DLL and a bunch of modulemanager configs, you can just do a config for that EL part for whatever stock part you want.

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