Launch clamp - alike base mounts question

[Hohmannson]

After years of kraken attacks on my surface bases, slowly moving outposts even on ideally flat terrain and with USI ground tether enabled, mining rigs jumping and launchpads exploding I have realised, that the only way to keep huge things on surface safely is launch clamps. Looks like KSP2 team thinks similar - the colonies in trailer are lifted above the uneven ground on familiarly looking poles. 

Sadly, stock launch clamps are small, surface attachable only, have integrated decoupler and, when placed in large quantities, can cause Kerbal Joint Reinforcement troubles and inflate part count. I`ve tried the Modular Launch Pads mounts too, but looks like they are not suited well for bumpy terrain(pic related).

So, the questions. Is it possible to make a huge base-wide "launch clamp" without towerpivot transform, without decoupler(at last without staged decoupler), that will stand well on hills? Which part of multi-pole "launch clamp" is really anchoring vessel to the ground? Had someone here made something similar, any tips or tricks?

 

[Okhin]

I think @Nertea have developed something suitable for what your looking for. Namely the SSPER mod (here on github) which provide self-leveling Base Frame, which are, basically, telescoping legs which tries to put your base on a horizontal attitude. I say tries, because it does compensate almost flat land, not the Great Canyon (I think it can compensate one meter or two of declivity). Note that they're not landing legs, they'll break if you land to violently.

They exist in a lot of size and section, and can support vertical cylinders or horizontal one.

And if you must, you can of course manage the legs height by hand. Or slave them to a KAL-9000, and turn your space station into a custom low rider, bouncing its way through the sky (ok no, it does not retract fast enough for that. But you can still make it dance).

If you'd rather have a more DIY approach, tries some pistons and grip pad from breaking ground. You'll have to do it manually, but you can reach insane declivity with the double telescopic ones. And with correct dampening settings, they can act as landing legs. Or make your station bounce like a frog. Or both.

[Hohmannson]

24 minutes ago, Okhin said:

I think @Nertea have developed something suitable for what your looking for. Namely the SSPER mod (here on github) which provide self-leveling Base Frame, which are, basically, telescoping legs which tries to put your base on a horizontal attitude. I say tries, because it does compensate almost flat land, not the Great Canyon (I think it can compensate one meter or two of declivity). Note that they're not landing legs, they'll break if you land to violently.

They exist in a lot of size and section, and can support vertical cylinders or horizontal one.

And if you must, you can of course manage the legs height by hand. Or slave them to a KAL-9000, and turn your space station into a custom low rider, bouncing its way through the sky (ok no, it does not retract fast enough for that. But you can still make it dance).

If you'd rather have a more DIY approach, tries some pistons and grip pad from breaking ground. You'll have to do it manually, but you can reach insane declivity with the double telescopic ones. And with correct dampening settings, they can act as landing legs. Or make your station bounce like a frog. Or both.

Sadly, but i tried that base frames and grip pads already, SSPRX is installed(you can see its parts on the screen), but looks like KSP physics consider only one part on surface to be completely still, it`s a launch clamp. That frames were suffering jumps, 0.03m/s slow moving and sometimes "drill kraken" attacks when vessel was unpacking. It can or can not occur on different installs, celestial bodies and KSP versions, so it is not reliable.

It`s realistic. Almost every permanent building IRL stands on a foundation, or on piles, so i am looking for that. Thank you anyway.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Hohmannson

[Krakatoa]

Extraplanetary Launchpads has non-stageable clamps that work similarly to the stock ones. Of course, they can't be sent on a lander, but you can build your base in situ and they will keep things lofted and still.

[Hohmannson]

16 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

Extraplanetary Launchpads has non-stageable clamps that work similarly to the stock ones. Of course, they can't be sent on a lander, but you can build your base in situ and they will keep things lofted and still.

Yes, ELExtendingLaunchClamp module on a cloned stock part. But they are staged, surface attachable only, small and still suffer some KJR troubles. I use them for now, base mounts from ModularLaunchPads on the screenshot have it instead of stock module, too. Just thinking about something more colony-adapted.

[zer0Kerbal]

there was one more mod - old one - that had something like you wanted - will try to track it down.

 

[AlphaMensae]

On 2/21/2020 at 7:41 AM, Hohmannson said:

After years of kraken attacks on my surface bases, slowly moving outposts even on ideally flat terrain and with USI ground tether enabled, mining rigs jumping and launchpads exploding I have realised, that the only way to keep huge things on surface safely is launch clamps. Looks like KSP2 team thinks similar - the colonies in trailer are lifted above the uneven ground on familiarly looking poles. 

Sadly, stock launch clamps are small, surface attachable only, have integrated decoupler and, when placed in large quantities, can cause Kerbal Joint Reinforcement troubles and inflate part count. I`ve tried the Modular Launch Pads mounts too, but looks like they are not suited well for bumpy terrain(pic related).

So, the questions. Is it possible to make a huge base-wide "launch clamp" without towerpivot transform, without decoupler(at last without staged decoupler), that will stand well on hills? Which part of multi-pole "launch clamp" is really anchoring vessel to the ground? Had someone here made something similar, any tips or tricks?

 

I'll admit that I didn't think about my launch bases being used off a launch pad

The stock launch clamps get their functions from ModuleLaunchClamp, and the decoupler action is part of it. There is no way to deactivate it, the clamp will release anything attached to the primary attach point. You'd need a custom module (like what EL uses) to get different behavior.

What I can do though is to have an alternate footing type for some of my launch bases, or maybe make a dedicated mounting platform for structures. It wouldn't be a distinctive foot pad, but just a continuation of the support column, extending well below the normal launch pad static ground level, so it could be used on uneven ground.

[Hohmannson]

5 minutes ago, AlphaMensae said:

to the primary attach point

I`ll admit that I didn`t think about it in that way! Maybe, that primary attach point can go somewhere, where it will not do any harm(tiny barely-visible surface attachment point, downward looking little node?), and let other attach points to, well, attach base parts and neighboring base mounts in VAB or w/KIS. 100% dll-free and ELExtendingLaunchclamp-safe solution. And yes, your wonderful Modular Launch Pads can serve well as Modular Extraplanetary Launch Pads and as modular "wow, my Gilly UKS colony is not becoming a Kerbol orbit OKS colony on unpacking anymore"-pads.

And if you don`t have much time, I can do some cfg tinkering and KIS/EPL/OSE/etc compatibility for that.

[AlphaMensae]

1 hour ago, Hohmannson said:

I`ll admit that I didn`t think about it in that way! Maybe, that primary attach point can go somewhere, where it will not do any harm(tiny barely-visible surface attachment point, downward looking little node?), and let other attach points to, well, attach base parts and neighboring base mounts in VAB or w/KIS. 100% dll-free and ELExtendingLaunchclamp-safe solution. And yes, your wonderful Modular Launch Pads can serve well as Modular Extraplanetary Launch Pads and as modular "wow, my Gilly UKS colony is not becoming a Kerbol orbit OKS colony on unpacking anymore"-pads.

And if you don`t have much time, I can do some cfg tinkering and KIS/EPL/OSE/etc compatibility for that.

I think the primary attach point is whatever is used to attach the clamp to an engine, tank or whatever. The stock clamps are simply surface attached, so that point is what releases. Anything attached to the clamp after that will not release. The same will happen, I think, with my launch bases. There is a center node for attaching to a rocket, and other nodes for attaching towers and stuff. If one of the tower nodes is used to attach to a rocket, that one may become the release point instead.

I think I will just adapt what are now called the Flat Launch Bases to be a Structural Mount Base, without a center hole, and something like 50m extensions to the footings to accommodate uneven terrain.

[Hohmannson]

On 2/23/2020 at 4:54 AM, zer0Kerbal said:

there was one more mod - old one - that had something like you wanted - will try to track it down.

 

That thing? Yes, looks like Tahiwha was the first to develop something like that. And there is a solution to stop clamp staging, a string in the partmodule cfg.

Yesterday I did some research and built a little KSP2trailer-style outpost on modded FASA launch bases from scratch with KIS on uneven terrain, piece to piece, just like Fallout 4. No Krakens. The kolonization has never been so safe.

The only problem is proper models, so am getting started with the Unity right now.

[Remarkerbal]

@Hohmannson Interesting topic. As I have suffered some kraken attacks recently and also in a matter of building horizontal launchpads, I have come across your various posts. You seem to be quite involved in finding a stable solution to surface attached bases. Discovering tons of mods recently, I came across one called Airpark, and so I was wondering if deploying a base frame a few meters above ground would not be a good solution to getting rid of the problem once and for all. Maybe the clamp part could be modified through the config file as to be purely visual so that it may look like the base is standing on pillars, while in reality being fixed in mid air. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Hohmannson]

24 minutes ago, Remarkerbal said:

like the base is standing on pillars, while in reality being fixed in mid air

That's exactly how ModuleLaunchClamp works - in the clamp's cap(not in foot) a joint to local coordinates is created. Clamp extends its pillar to the ground, but not too much, pillar by no means collide with ground. Footing does - but it's not physical, it's decorative.

On 1.12.2 and with latest KSPCommunityFixes(that has LoadSceneKraken fix, pre-release) i have no problems with clamps. Also i cracked the staging problem, the wobbling problem and so on, it's all fixable in part configs. AlphaMensae created a specific part for that(thank you AlphaMensae!), and also RSB's launch clamps are pretty good for that. I posted my base with it in "What you've done today in KSP" thread so you've seen it already i think.

Airpark is okie too, i use it mostly for air parking, but it can make the base more stable... or summon the Kraken ofc. And also now-revived Foundations mod exists - it uses another approach, more like KIS static attach, i use it as a parking brake and for temporary buildings.

[Remarkerbal]

Well, I saw a few of your posts regarding modified launch clamps, but I haven't really tried to mess with that by myself. If somehow I was able to get my hands on a config file *wink*, I would probably give it a try.

Thx for telling me about Foundations, I found the most recent posts and I might try it. I should add that I am playing on 1.8.1, because of mods I like.

Take care

[zer0Kerbal]

foundations (in beta) might be an answer.

download from Curseforge.