Nations in KSP

[Дом]

I have created this topic so that i could share my ideas about nations being in KSP and so that i can communicate with people with similar ideas on the same principle.

[Pds314]

On 3/7/2020 at 5:53 AM, Дом said:

I have created this topic so that i could share my ideas about nations being in KSP and so that i can communicate with people with similar ideas on the same principle.

This probably doesn't belong in this subforum.

Also I got warned and locked for this topic 2 years ex post facto so you might wanna discuss anything resembling roleplaying on somewhere other than the forum. Perhaps a Discord or FB Group.

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Pds314

[Nightside]

On 3/7/2020 at 5:53 AM, Дом said:

I have created this topic so that i could share my ideas about nations being in KSP and so that i can communicate with people with similar ideas on the same principle.

I'm curious how do you interpret nationality on an apparently uninhabited world?

 

@Pds314, discussion and development of headcannon is not exactly roleplaying. It should be OK in these forums. Cool map though!

[Дом]

37 minutes ago, Nightside said:

I'm curious how do you interpret nationality on an apparently uninhabited world?

 

@Pds314, discussion and development of headcannon is not exactly roleplaying. It should be OK in these forums. Cool map though!

This isnt about apperance its about concept and imagination i view as beaing much like how our society works like how we have different races, religeons and ethnic values. Since this is the early stages of me making this topic i may go on to include subjects about how the different nations them selves opperate or function like describing governments or self governing bodies of each country i make. It make take me time to get my map up as the website keeps saying the link im giving it is invaild in the mean time here it is on steam.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2022654363

But to answere your quetion i view it as imaginable and as a thing that should be added to the game to make kerbin feel alive rather then dead or uninhabited like you implied

Edited March 14, 2020 by Дом
Included Reasoning

[Дом]

40 minutes ago, Nightside said:

I'm curious how do you interpret nationality on an apparently uninhabited world?

 

@Pds314, discussion and development of headcannon is not exactly roleplaying. It should be OK in these forums. Cool map though!

 

6 minutes ago, Дом said:

This is a map i made. Most of the nations you see here i depicting real life nations like Ruslavia is depicting Russian while Barchia is dipicting the United States. Why so close to each other you may ask. Because its mainly do to the geography of kerbin. more than half the land mass is all conected by land and also i thought it would be interesting to have to rivaling powers next to each other not in cold war but whats going on today.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

What IATA/ICAO codes of the Ruslavia airlines? Can't find it in register.

 

[Pds314]

12 hours ago, Nightside said:

I'm curious how do you interpret nationality on an apparently uninhabited world?

 

@Pds314, discussion and development of headcannon is not exactly roleplaying. It should be OK in these forums. Cool map though!

I wasn't using it for RP (although plenty of others later used it for roleplay and other things in private FB groups and Discords and such), but mods locked the thread anyway and warned me. Granted, the post is 6 years ago and the warn and lock was 4 years ago, so rules or interpretations thereof could've changed.

11 hours ago, Дом said:

 

This is a map i made. Most of the nations you see here i depicting real life nations like Ruslavia is depicting Russian while Barchia is dipicting the United States. Why so close to each other you may ask. Because its mainly do to the geography of kerbin. more than half the land mass is all conected by land and also i thought it would be interesting to have to rivaling powers next to each other not in cold war but whats going on today.

That thousand km land border between the two biggest powers that aren't aligned with each other is.... scary. I think that has legitimately only happened on Earth in the middle of world wars or similar. I personally like making maps with the KSC not in a major power so that you can reach other countries/map areas with short range methods. Thus, my balkanization of the continent-like peninsula of peninsulas where the KSC is. Also I figured it's a mountainous peninsula of peninsulas, so Balkanization is pretty likely anyhow.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Pds314

[Elidnas]

13 hours ago, Nightside said:

I'm curious how do you interpret nationality on an apparently uninhabited world?

 

@Pds314, discussion and development of headcannon is not exactly roleplaying. It should be OK in these forums. Cool map though!

@Pds314's map has been my actual playthrough map since 1.3.1. 

[sumghai]

Personally, dividing Kerbin up into nations doesn't add much value to the core gameplay experience of spacecraft construction, flight and mission management.

Firstly, not everyone will agree on what nations to depict and where their territories lie. Even if we put it into a community vote*, there will always be some people unhappy their country got left out, while others will be offended by depictions/allegories to certain real-life countries. Leaving Kerbin's continents as a blank slate is the best compromise, as everyone can simply imagine whatever they want for their personal headcanon or scenario.

Secondly, once you've divided up Kerbin into nations, what purpose does it serve in gameplay?

• Different Space Center start locations? Although one could have each nation offer different starting bonuses, in practice players will quickly optimize their gameplay by picking one consistent starting country, and once you gain enough funds and science through gameplay, the bonuses quickly become irrelevant.
  
  The current KSC site is also conveniently located on Kerbin's equator, and as rockets launched from there will typically have lower delta-v requirements to reach orbit, most players would (again) prefer to pick equatorial locations, making other locations (mostly) irrelevant as well.
   
• Contracts/rewards from different nations? This can already be implemented using the agency system, although other than (potentially) greater fund rewards compared to corporate agencies, there's not much else to differentiate them.
   
• More flags? Other than aesthetics, how would this be different from mods that already add flags of real and fictional countries?
   
• Kerbalnaut starting stats/quirks? With enough training, the starting stats or quirks of a Kerbalnaut recruited from certain nations will eventually become irrelevant, unless you wish to apply permanent bonuses specific to each nation (which again may lend to offensive stereotyping if Kerbals from one nation are, for example, consistently depicted as very stupid)
   
• Recovery fee/penalties for landing in a certain nation? This could get quite annoying, especially for players low on funds. Again, players would simply optimize to try and land spent stages as close to the KSC as possible, negating whatever gameplay variety that could be obtained from imposing different recovery fees for different nations.

 

*Software development should be based on rational technical and business decisions, not popularity contests

[kerbiloid]

Several (basically, 2..3) nations corporations under the rule of United Kerbal Coordinating Council.
(Just an invisible world govt, no conspiracy. There should be some "they" for the market, random events, and so on, see below.)

The corps build bases and plant flags to claim the surrounding territory as theirs.
This could partially solve the problem of boundaries. No fixed boundaries, no national territories. Just colored circles around the bases and flags with fuzzy boundaries.
Every game another, depending on where you build your bases next time.

The corps gather science and rarities, mine minerals and sell this all on market to get money.
(Keep in mind the Heroes of Might and Magic, but as it's a single-player game, the player plays for all of them in any sequence he/she wishes.)

***
Every base has a SOI, painting the map into its corporative color.
The bigger/powerful'er/populated'er is the base, the wider is its SOI.
Also depends on its TechLevel, etc.

If SOIs of different colors intersect, the spots get cropped.

***
A simple flag claims a place to land, nothing more.
If an opposing nation builds its base aside, the flagged small territory keeps its color, being surrounded by the opponent's one. You still can precisely land there.

If someone plants a flag on a claimed territory of an opposing corp, then a penalty from the Council.

***
The equatorial KSC is neutral, the bank, the casino and the market. Owned by Council.
You can sell your science points and found rarities there to get moar money and popularity. Have a trip to do that.
You should pay for every launch/landing there, so usually you avoid this and use your own launch site far from the equator.

You can use any launch site in the game (unless if a corp war is running), but only owned by this corp for free. For others the corp should pay to its owner (another corp or the Council).

***
The new Kerbals still appear in KSC, you can hire them to any of the corps.
Though you can grow your own if something like CivilianPopulation is installed.

***
As it's a single-player game, the same player has to play for every corp.
To make this less silly, the corps should be balanced, a negative loopback should be implemented, forcing the player to change the side from time to time.
A part of it is anti-monopoly measures.

Every corporation has money, tech level, and popularity. And it periodically pays taxes.
Taxes for owned money, for occupied land (those SOIs), for the personnel amount.
The richer is the corp, the more it pays.
The taxes should depend on which part of total in-game amount of all of that belongs to this corp.
So, the bigger part of the pie belongs to the corp, the more it should pay.

On another hand, a company who performed something great (like first landing on some celstial body, asteroid redirection, etc.) gets popular, gets hype and so on.
So, it gains some preferences in hiring, prices, taxes, etc.

All this should force the player to change a side from time to time and develop several parallel infrastructures belonging to different corporations.

***
You can either buy resources from the Council or another corp, or produce them by ISRU. This should force to develop the ISRU.

***
Sometimes experienced high-level Kerbals unexpectedly change the corp. (Never happens irl, u c)
Sometimes this change the game balance making to start developing another corp for the moment.

***
The corps have different TechLevels, every one it's own.
So, parts, available to one, aren't to another. Unless they are found/robbed.

***
Wild tribes.
Unexpectedly bad-natured Kerbals infiltrate and steal something, cut wires for metal.
To prevent this you should build security infrastructure.

Edited March 15, 2020 by kerbiloid

[RoninFrog]

On 3/7/2020 at 5:53 AM, Дом said:

nations being in KSP

Wait what?!?  You mean the Space Program doesn't have total Kerbin dominance??

[Pds314]

1 hour ago, RoninFrog said:

Wait what?!?  You mean the Space Program doesn't have total Kerbin dominance??

I like the idea of the space program successfully taking over the world and then just not doing anything with it.

[Дом]

Look this has nouhing to do with space its all on kerbin. The space program is its own agency. about 7 countries have them the list is here.

Barchia:BASA Barchian Aeronautics and Space Administration

Ruslavia:Rukosmas

UJFR/Union of Jalvenian Federative Republics:MSSA Ministry of Space and Science Aeronautics

Voemetedor:Vo Loces

Gerfuna:ASA Administration of Space and Aeronautics

Kharland:AAS Agency of Aeronautics and Space

Kuevin:Khong Gian

 

On 3/15/2020 at 6:51 PM, Дом said:

Look this has nouhing to do with space its all on kerbin. The space program is its own agency. about 7 countries have them the list is here.

Barchia:BASA Barchian Aeronautics and Space Administration

Ruslavia:Kosmas

UJFR/Union of Jalvenian Federative Republics:MSSA Ministry of Space and Science Aeronautics

Voemetedor:Loces

Gerfuna:ASA Administration of Space and Aeronautics

Kharland:AAS Agency of Aeronautics and Space

Kuevin:Khong Gian

 

There is a continental space agency or organization much like the ESA but i have not came up with it yet im a busy man so be patient with me.

This is an anthem and flag map i included to the UOSR/Union of Opreian Socialist Republics, A spinoff of the USSR Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. i appologize if my english is bad im not native to speaking it infact im still learning about it

The song used is call the Internationale

Edited March 17, 2020 by Дом

[Дом]

I will be including Flags and anthems later on

[sumghai]

@Дом, I'm having trouble understanding what the purpose of your thread is.

Are you saying "It would be nice if the planet Kerbin in the game had nations"? Or are you specifically saying "Devs should put [your] specific countries into the game"?

[Дом]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:08 AM, sumghai said:

@Дом, I'm having trouble understanding what the purpose of your thread is.

Are you saying "It would be nice if the planet Kerbin in the game had nations"? Or are you specifically saying "Devs should put [your] specific countries into the game"?

it would be nice of devs put nations on kerbin but it would ne nicer of they used mine as ive worked really hard on them

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2030387844

[kerbiloid]

As a native of the real USSR I definitely don't need this cosplay in KSP.

[Corax]

Depicting a place without nationalism and militarism, virtual or otherwise, may be a strange concept for some people, but I see it as one of the strong points of KSP.

What the world needs is less of that nonsense, not more. Next you know, people will clamour for religion to be included, and multiple, conflicting ones too, so they can have their petty Krusades. Oh, and Kreationism.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Corax

[Vanamonde]

Remember to avoid politics and religion on this forum, please. 

[steuben]

Individual nations are in "feelies" category of things. Really nice to have, adds all sorts of background colour to the game, but not essential. Not even really essential feelies. Effort in that category would be by far better focused on expanding the merch line, and developing KSP the plastic model part kits.

[razark]

"From space I saw Earth -- indescribably beautiful and with the scars of national boundaries gone." -Muhammad Faris

"National boundaries are as invisible as meridians of longitude, or the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. The boundaries are arbitrary. The planet is real." -Carl Sagan

"When you're finally up at the moon looking back on earth, all those differences and nationalistic traits are pretty well going to blend, and you're going to get a concept that maybe this really is one world and why the hell can't we learn to live together like decent people." -Frank Borman

"I really believe that if the political leaders of the world could see their planet from a distance of 100,000 miles their outlook could be fundamentally changed. That all-important border would be invisible, that noisy argument silenced. The tiny globe would continue to turn, serenely ignoring its subdivisions..." -Michael Collins

 

"The first day or so we all pointed to our countries. The third or fourth day we were pointing to our continents. By the fifth day, we were aware of only one Earth." -Sultan bin Salman Al-Saud

[Дом]

You guys this is only to add back backround to the game the focus still will be on space but the nations them selves will be a thing thats there but you dont interact with as he focus of the game is on running your space program.

On 3/15/2020 at 7:06 AM, sumghai said:

Personally, dividing Kerbin up into nations doesn't add much value to the core gameplay experience of spacecraft construction, flight and mission management.

Firstly, not everyone will agree on what nations to depict and where their territories lie. Even if we put it into a community vote*, there will always be some people unhappy their country got left out, while others will be offended by depictions/allegories to certain real-life countries. Leaving Kerbin's continents as a blank slate is the best compromise, as everyone can simply imagine whatever they want for their personal headcanon or scenario.

Secondly, once you've divided up Kerbin into nations, what purpose does it serve in gameplay?

• Different Space Center start locations? Although one could have each nation offer different starting bonuses, in practice players will quickly optimize their gameplay by picking one consistent starting country, and once you gain enough funds and science through gameplay, the bonuses quickly become irrelevant.
  
  The current KSC site is also conveniently located on Kerbin's equator, and as rockets launched from there will typically have lower delta-v requirements to reach orbit, most players would (again) prefer to pick equatorial locations, making other locations (mostly) irrelevant as well.
   
• Contracts/rewards from different nations? This can already be implemented using the agency system, although other than (potentially) greater fund rewards compared to corporate agencies, there's not much else to differentiate them.
   
• More flags? Other than aesthetics, how would this be different from mods that already add flags of real and fictional countries?
   
• Kerbalnaut starting stats/quirks? With enough training, the starting stats or quirks of a Kerbalnaut recruited from certain nations will eventually become irrelevant, unless you wish to apply permanent bonuses specific to each nation (which again may lend to offensive stereotyping if Kerbals from one nation are, for example, consistently depicted as very stupid)
   
• Recovery fee/penalties for landing in a certain nation? This could get quite annoying, especially for players low on funds. Again, players would simply optimize to try and land spent stages as close to the KSC as possible, negating whatever gameplay variety that could be obtained from imposing different recovery fees for different nations.

 

*Software development should be based on rational technical and business decisions, not popularity contests

there will be stuff like that yes

[snip]

Edited March 24, 2020 by Vanamonde

[Дом]

[snip] when i play the game i usualy fly a planes around kerbin i do this because i ran out of ideas for what to do in space if you like my topic thats good if you dont [snip] then stay the absolute hell off this topic and i really dont care about the space aspect of this game im just gonna throw that out there in the field so you guys no and no im trying to turn ksp into political sim im suggesting the devs add nations to kerbin to make feel more alive and less dead lile it already is like adding cities and towns to the surface of it.

Oh any one quetion why is kerbin so damn small its smaller then the moon.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Some content has been edited or removed. Please don't make the discussions personal. 

[Дом]

this topic is only and idea i dont know why people want to start controversy on it. its only an idea i cam up with when i done from testing at school.