Ethics Of Being The One Who Starts

[Spacescifi]

 

 

Here is a scenario to pick your brains.

Say I gave you the opportunity to create Earth 2.0.

You can accept or reject my offer. If you reject the offer you get a million dollars US. If you accept... this is how it will be.

The planet is like our Earth with our animals.

You also get one human couple to start the whole human race off. Conveniently they awaken as 19 year old adults and can speak your language flawlessly with understanding from the moment they wake up. It is also convenient that the couple have the genetic ability to spawn all skin pigment diversity in their descendents that we humans call races.

Here is what is not: The couple will only live a human lifespan, meaning they will get old and die eventually. Meaning it will be imperative that they have a lot of children to kickstart humanity 2.0. Sooner than later.

Choices: Put them anywhere on their world to start, since it is a clone of our own, only without us. North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America... pick one.

Communication: You can speak from the sky with a booming voice like you are their maker if you wish, tell them anything you like, however often you like. You cannot do anything miraculous beyond that though.

You can even visit them personally, but if you do, you will be just as mortal as they are. Yet you can leave by going asleep.. which takes you back safely to your bed on Earth Prime (ours). Assuming you do not die or are killed before then. Either way you will grow old and die eventually like all do, no matter where you live.

Planet location: You can put Earth 2.0 in the goldilocks zone of OUR solar system in a blink. Or put it lightyears away in another one. Your choice. No matter what, you can visit anytime you want, but can only return by falling asleep.

Questions: Would you accept the offer to make Earth 2.0? Or would you reject it and it and become a millionaire? Also if you accept, what would you tell the humans and how often would you talk with them?

The ethics of this are huge, as are the consequences. Have fun!

 

[kerbiloid]

Where can I get my million?

***

1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

they awaken as 19 year old adults

It's enough, say, in Russia (18 is full adult), but are they adult, say, where alcohol can be sold only to 21+'s?

***

1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

Yet you can leave by going asleep.. which takes you back safely to your bed on Earth Prime (ours).

So, I can make the Earth and sell the rights to some reality show company? Then I' can get more than a million.

Edited March 21, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Shpaget]

Attempting your scenario will result in quick death of your initial couple. 2 individuals is not nearly enough to produce a stable population, even with modern genetic analysis capability. After your first two (who you let's say can engineer or select) you are left with random chance for their offspring. You'll quickly run into problems with lack of genetic diversity.

You'd need about 80-100 of selected individuals for starter population, if you use continuous planned breeding. That number grows to several thousands for random individuals.

3 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

It is also convenient that the couple have the genetic ability to spawn all skin pigment diversity in their descendents that we humans call races.

That just doesn't make sense, both conceptually and genetically.

[Spacescifi]

 

Consider it possible... to make the couple parents with the genetic ability to jump start the human race.

You can dismiss it, but it is far easier to start a race that way than leaving it to chance and waiting billions upon billions of years of hoping multiple parents appear by accident.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[Spacescifi]

7 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

 

So, I can make the Earth and sell the rights to some reality show company? Then I' can get more than a million.

 

Sure you can... although unless you put Earth 2.0 in our solar system I don't know how anyone other than you can visit it.

You have the abiliy to go there as you please.

That said, alowing humanity prime to take over humanity and Earth 2.0 has it's own ethical issues.

 

You are deferring responsibility to companies that care mostly about Earth Prime to take care of Earth 2.0. There will be some definite bias shown.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[cubinator]

Well, the planet has all the rest of our animals and life and such, so who cares about the humans? We already have humans on Earth Prime, and helping them figure out how to travel the stars is way easier than being God for a few brand new humans on a new planet for only the first few decades. I would accept, discourage the two humans from creating more by putting them on opposite sides of the planet so that meeting would be inconvenient, and once their lives are done we have a 'control' Earth full of life but empty of humans, quite beautiful. I'd visit from time to time, maybe help out the humans if they need it. And I'd consider placing the planet in a relatively nearby spot, maybe 30-50 ly away so it's not too easy to get to, but something we could find and use as an oasis on our way out into the galaxy.

[Spacescifi]

57 minutes ago, cubinator said:

Well, the planet has all the rest of our animals and life and such, so who cares about the humans? We already have humans on Earth Prime, and helping them figure out how to travel the stars is way easier than being God for a few brand new humans on a new planet for only the first few decades. I would accept, discourage the two humans from creating more by putting them on opposite sides of the planet so that meeting would be inconvenient, and once their lives are done we have a 'control' Earth full of life but empty of humans, quite beautiful. I'd visit from time to time, maybe help out the humans if they need it. And I'd consider placing the planet in a relatively nearby spot, maybe 30-50 ly away so it's not too easy to get to, but something we could find and use as an oasis on our way out into the galaxy.

 

Interesting answer... you would let humanity 2.0 die?

 

I feel sorry for that couple. They would likely spend their days surviving up until they either die of old age or become the meal of a beast.

Bonus scenario: Humanity 2.0 is biologically immortal. Meaning after age 25 they cease to age further. They can still have babies (provided nothing is 'fixed') and can still die of disease and be killed.

 

Now how does THAT change your answer?

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[VoidCosmos]

11 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

 

Interesting answer... you would let humanity 2.0 die?

 

I feel sorry for that couple. They would likely spend their days surviving up until they either die of old age or become the meal of a beast.

Bonus scenario: Humanity 2.0 is biologically immortal. Meaning after age 25 they cease to age further. They can still have babies (provided nothing is 'fixed') and can still die of disease and be killed.

 

Now how does THAT change your answer?

 

What is they die before having a baby? 

And yeah Earth 2.0 is useless

[Spacescifi]

16 minutes ago, VoidCosmos said:

What is they die before having a baby? 

And yeah Earth 2.0 is useless

Then it is just a world without humans.

How?

What would you prefer? A bunch of humanoid aliens with higher tech who want to trade with us?

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[VoidCosmos]

6 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

What would you prefer? A bunch of humanoid aliens with higher tech who want to trade with us?

What would you prefer? A bunch of humanoid aliens with higher tech who want to trade with us?

[Spacescifi]

4 minutes ago, VoidCosmos said:

What would you prefer? A bunch of humanoid aliens with higher tech who want to trade with us?

 

I am asking you.

I would be OK with either scenario, provided I get to set it all up.

[VoidCosmos]

2 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

 

I am asking you.

I would be OK with either scenario, provided I get to set it all up.

I would choose the same I guess

[Spacescifi]

2 hours ago, VoidCosmos said:

I would choose the same I guess

 

I thought you said Earth 2.0 is useless?

So does that mean you prefer scifi humanoids or a million dollars instead?

[cubinator]

3 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Interesting answer... you would let humanity 2.0 die?

I feel sorry for that couple. They would likely spend their days surviving up until they either die of old age or become the meal of a beast.

It would be lonely for them, but humanity 2.0 in my opinion is something we don't need a fresh planet for. We have everything we need to be successful right here, and I think another planet full of naturally-developing humans would just complicate things too much, especially when we finally meet.

3 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Bonus scenario: Humanity 2.0 is biologically immortal. Meaning after age 25 they cease to age further. They can still have babies (provided nothing is 'fixed') and can still die of disease and be killed.

Now how does THAT change your answer?

Now they are likely to walk the world and find each other. I won't live to see it happen, though, which is problematic. I'd have to tell them early on about the other human, then let them wander their world. It does change where I put the planet, though - it would be much farther away - maybe the Circinus galaxy.

[Spacescifi]

37 minutes ago, cubinator said:

It would be lonely for them, but humanity 2.0 in my opinion is something we don't need a fresh planet for. We have everything we need to be successful right here, and I think another planet full of naturally-developing humans would just complicate things too much, especially when we finally meet.

Now they are likely to walk the world and find each other. I won't live to see it happen, though, which is problematic. I'd have to tell them early on about the other human, then let them wander their world. It does change where I put the planet, though - it would be much farther away - maybe the Circinus galaxy.

 

Wow. It is amusing how scared you are of your own kind.

Granted... you have reason to be I suppose.

Given that we can do this in less than 10,000 years of development...

 

 

Without a bunch of diverse languages, technological progress should proceed even faster than our own. As there will be little to no language barriers to retard discoveries of new information.

 

With biologically immortal humans? Wow. Either they wipe each other out or they conquer and inhabit the solar system... in less than 10,000 years of development.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[cubinator]

1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

Wow. It is amusing how scared you are of your own kind.

Yup. Particularly when different cultures collide. Look at what happened when Europeans encountered the very smart and ingenious Maya and other American civilizations...Because they were different there was great destruction instead of acceptance and cultural mingling. We all hope that by the time we reach the stars we will be able to control our fear but there is the risk that we don't learn by then. Imagine what would happen if you gave those different groups a whole planet each and thousands or millions of years to develop. If everyone has not ended the problem of war there will be devastation. The best case scenario here is either a living planet the people of Earth Prime can eventually visit, or the new Earth with all its people is sufficiently distant that we must master the entire universe before we meet.

Or a million dollars.

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

-Yoda

Edited March 21, 2020 by cubinator

[Spacescifi]

33 minutes ago, cubinator said:

Yup. Particularly when different cultures collide. Look at what happened when Europeans encountered the very smart and ingenious Maya and other American civilizations...Because they were different there was great destruction instead of acceptance and cultural mingling. We all hope that by the time we reach the stars we will be able to control our fear but there is the risk that we don't learn by then. Imagine what would happen if you gave those different groups a whole planet each and thousands or millions of years to develop. If everyone has not ended the problem of war there will be devastation. The best case scenario here is either a living planet the people of Earth Prime can eventually visit, or the new Earth with all its people is sufficiently distant that we must master the entire universe before we meet.

Or a million dollars.

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

-Yoda

 

Well... it is ironic how some fear their own kind, yet want scifi aliens to visit.

As the phrase goes, 'Better the devil you know than the devil you don't', and it means that it is often better to deal with someone or something you are familiar with and know, even if they are not ideal, than take a risk with an unknown.

And believe me, all scifi aliens I ever make always have slight differences in behavior that we do not.

In other words, some common and accepted human behaviors they would think of as someone being mentally handicapped on their world. And it follows how they would view us as a whole.

 

Versus humans who may have a higher tech advantage, but at least... on some level,can emphasize with us more than aliens who do not fully know what it means to be human.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

An Earth without humans can't have the same animals, because most of widely known and familiar animals are made by humans from the wild species manually.

No cows, no horses, no sheep, no various dogs... Even cats would be wild and intolerant to the people and looking unfriendly.

Edited March 22, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Hotel26]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

No cows

I already have a million dollars.  So I'm out.

Because all I really want: is to taste steak again...

Edited March 22, 2020 by Hotel26

[DDE]

On 3/21/2020 at 10:24 AM, Shpaget said:

After your first two (who you let's say can engineer or select) you are left with random chance for their offspring.

Since they

On 3/21/2020 at 6:45 AM, Spacescifi said:

have the genetic ability to spawn all skin pigment diversity in their descendents that we humans call races.

I'm beginning to doubt whether they even are genetically human. So, many conventional limitations may not apply, as is usual for the OP.

[KSK]

Assuming that Earth Prime is still inhabitable, I invoke the Prime Directive. Let Earth 2.0 evolve in peace and maybe give rise to its own sapient inhabitants at some point. 

So gimme the money. There's plenty of good causes that I could donate it to.

Incidentally, I fail to see why the ability having the genetic ability to spawn all skin pigment diversity in your descendants is particularly convenient. Unless you want to give the inhabitants of Earth 2.0 a reason to fight amongst themselves from the get go?

[kerbiloid]

Idk about you, gentlehumans, but I have a genetically programmed ability to change my skin color under sun. They call it "tan".

(Never thought I'm changing my racial background by doing this.)

[Spacescifi]

4 hours ago, KSK said:

 

Incidentally, I fail to see why the ability having the genetic ability to spawn all skin pigment diversity in your descendants is particularly convenient. Unless you want to give the inhabitants of Earth 2.0 a reason to fight amongst themselves from the get go?

 

Variety is the spice of life. That includes the races.

 

That said, it is also partially my personal opinion that skin pigment DOES offer advantages that go beyond cosmetics.

 

Darker skin tends to block more UV than paler skin, that is fact. My opinion is also that on a hot day, darker skinned humans take somewhat longer to heat up due to sunlight than paler skinned ones. Why? Paler skinned humans soak up UV easily, now one might think that is all bad... it is'nt. Did you know even fire emits UV? It does, although not a lot.

 

Lighter skin humans I believe heat up from radiation faster than darker skinned ones. The advantage is that heat sources on a cold days offer them warmth faster than darker humans. Thus the reason why overall, darker folk populate really hot less shaded areas, and light skinned humans populate cold areas. Since either one has the advantage depending on the temperature.

Just my opinion.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

53 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

The advantage is that heat sources on a cold days offer them warmth faster than darker humans.

These people are reading this very attentively

Spoiler

because they rarely can laugh so much

On cold days it's much wiser to hide the skin of any color under the coat, so the sun rays won't touch it in any case.

[Spacescifi]

3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

These people are reading this very attentively

  Reveal hidden contents

because they rarely can laugh so much

On cold days it's much wiser to hide the skin of any color under the coat, so the sun rays won't touch it in any case.

 

Does not have to be sunlight heat.

Any radiative heat source, fire included, should heat them up quicker.

In general, you blacks do not like the cold.

They do not have a large population in Russia for that and other reasons, but the cold IS a huge factor.

On the other hand, there are plenty of whites in South Africa, for reasons that go back into antiquity, but overall, I do think lighter skinned folk tolerate cold better.

I had a teacher who would wear a polo shirt and keep the door open to the outside on cold days.

 

He said he was not cold at all, while more than one kid complained, but he never shut it.

Granted, the teacher was not skinny, so I am sure the extra insulation helped.

But beyond that, I have also read that the British did not bother colonizing India on a massive scale BECAUSE of the hot, humid weather.

They hated it.