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Posted (edited)

Do you think wet workshops would be cool to make bases and space stations out of fuel tanks. Like Skylab 

Edited by SpaceFace545

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Posted (edited)

Hello :) - wet workshop skylab was only a proposal, so it could have been launched with a S-IB lower stage. 

However, skylab was launched on S-V lower stages fully equiped as a dry workshop. (Skylab was still built from a modified S-IVb - but it was fully equipped on ground)
 

The main problem with wet workshops is reamenaging the fuel tanks after launch. most of the useful equipment would be difficult to assemble once in orbit (the large parts have to be broken up to fit through the docking ports, etc) you’ll need several subsequent launches to ferry in the needed equipment (not recommended to put sensitive electronics inside cryogenic fuels / oxydizers, so you’ll have to launch them after) - in the end, it’s not really cost effective because of the added compexity and the subsequent manned launches required to finish the assembly in orbit.

Edited by sgt_flyer

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14 minutes ago, sgt_flyer said:

in the end, it’s not really cost effective because of the added compexity and the subsequent manned launches required to finish the assembly in orbit.

bUt iT's CoOL tHO! ;.;

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59 minutes ago, sgt_flyer said:

Hello :) - wet workshop skylab was only a proposal, so it could have been launched with a S-IB lower stage. 

However, skylab was launched on S-V lower stages fully equiped as a dry workshop. (Skylab was still built from a modified S-IVb - but it was fully equipped on ground)
 

The main problem with wet workshops is reamenaging the fuel tanks after launch. most of the useful equipment would be difficult to assemble once in orbit (the large parts have to be broken up to fit through the docking ports, etc) you’ll need several subsequent launches to ferry in the needed equipment (not recommended to put sensitive electronics inside cryogenic fuels / oxydizers, so you’ll have to launch them after) - in the end, it’s not really cost effective because of the added compexity and the subsequent manned launches required to finish the assembly in orbit.

Well that' correct and all but since this is a question inside KSP 2 discussion it would make nice challenges for KSP2.

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Posted (edited)

Just add

    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Oxidizer
        amount = 800
        maxAmount = 800
    }

(values are arbitrary, and maybe also add LiquidFuel)
to the Science Lab cfg, and it works like a fuel tank.

Maybe also
  fuelCrossFeed = True
, but it work without it right now.

Of course, better do it with a copied cfg or with ModuleManager.

Edited by kerbiloid

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It would be worth a thought to have something like WBI's MOLE (which implements wet workshops, including resources needed for conversion) in KSP2.  On the other hand, it's more of an expansion in the same era of tech that's in KSP1, where KSP2 appears to be more focused on future tech and exploring further.  So the question of whether the development resources should go there or if they should go to something which would be more part of what KSP2 is a question.

And of course, on the third hand - wet workshops and parts reuse would be a major help in a lot of different early colonization scenarios, so it might be something you could argue was part of the exploring further...

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Wet workshops are a low-tech solution to the mass savings required of chemical rocketry. There isn't really a place for that kind of thing in KSP2.

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3 hours ago, Rocket Witch said:

Wet workshops are a low-tech solution to the mass savings required of chemical rocketry. There isn't really a place for that kind of thing in KSP2.

Wouldn't they be useful for base building modules?

Modules could then land under their own power or at least keep skycrane smaller as it only needs enough fuel to return for next module with margin for error. fuel bladders store a small amount to keep an emergency fuel cell running if needed.

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8 hours ago, Rocket Witch said:

Wet workshops are a low-tech solution to the mass savings required of chemical rocketry. There isn't really a place for that kind of thing in KSP2.

There cool

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It occurs to me that wet workshops might actually be very useful on interstellar torch ships - they carry a lot of fuel to start, and it takes you years to get to your destination.  You could save a bit of mass - and add activities to the journey - by not having all the living area set up at the start of the trip.  You'd of course still need the contents of those living areas, but you can pack them down and unpack along the way to greatly increase your habitable area, allowing for more private space, population growth, etc.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, mattinoz said:

Wouldn't they be useful for base building modules?

Modules could then land under their own power or at least keep skycrane smaller as it only needs enough fuel to return for next module with margin for error. fuel bladders store a small amount to keep an emergency fuel cell running if needed.

They'd be useful for a lot of things, and I can very much see it being a popular mod, but somehow it just doesn't seem like a stock feature candidate. The idea of converting them into rotating habitats entered my mind — at the end of a long trip to another star, crews can expand into the rest of the ship and basically turn it into a station.

What I mean is people don't tend to fuss over whether their car does 9 or 10 miles to a gallon, and that's the level of delta-V we're presumably dealing with in a lot of cases. A dropship might have 10km/s while still being fairly small, and do multiple trips before refuelling. For the real Orion warship concepts they weren't thinking about efficiency, they were thinking about adding barbershops!

Edited by Rocket Witch

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10 hours ago, Rocket Witch said:

They'd be useful for a lot of things, and I can very much see it being a popular mod, but somehow it just doesn't seem like a stock feature candidate. The idea of converting them into rotating habitats entered my mind — at the end of a long trip to another star, crews can expand into the rest of the ship and basically turn it into a station.

What I mean is people don't tend to fuss over whether their car does 9 or 10 miles to a gallon, and that's the level of delta-V we're presumably dealing with in a lot of cases. A dropship might have 10km/s while still being fairly small, and do multiple trips before refuelling. For the real Orion warship concepts they weren't thinking about efficiency, they were thinking about adding barbershops!

Oh i fussed about it, i'm saving about 80-160 bucks a week after getting rid of my old truck that got about 10MPG...Still miss how her engine sounded while underway though.

But here's the real question; were they planning pools? Seriously; if you're accelerating for at least half the trip it wouldn't even be that big of a issue. Though with 50's tech they'd have to have some sort of mechanical computer to drain it a couple weeks before they turned around so it didn't go all over the ceiling.

Back to the actual topic though :P

I think the biggest issue with "Wet workshop" isn't really viability; this is KSP we're talking about here. The primary issue i would see is that for 3D graphics it's difficult to simulate cutting the ends off a tank and converting it into a usable space; you could have models swap in for different stages. Those would be governed by some logic, but you'd need at least 3 models for it (Tank_Base, Tank_OpenEnds, Tank_Converted). And then you'd also need multiple models for different configurations because i doubt people would want a standard workshop.

Then you'd also need to add hatches and crew capacity to the other models....it's a mess. It's not impossible, but for a feature that's a lot of duplication of effort, individual textures, meshes and UV maps. I feel this is something that falls in the "Better as a mod" category for sure.

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8 hours ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

Oh i fussed about it, i'm saving about 80-160 bucks a week after getting rid of my old truck that got about 10MPG...Still miss how her engine sounded while underway though.

But here's the real question; were they planning pools? Seriously; if you're accelerating for at least half the trip it wouldn't even be that big of a issue. Though with 50's tech they'd have to have some sort of mechanical computer to drain it a couple weeks before they turned around so it didn't go all over the ceiling.

Back to the actual topic though :P

I think the biggest issue with "Wet workshop" isn't really viability; this is KSP we're talking about here. The primary issue i would see is that for 3D graphics it's difficult to simulate cutting the ends off a tank and converting it into a usable space; you could have models swap in for different stages. Those would be governed by some logic, but you'd need at least 3 models for it (Tank_Base, Tank_OpenEnds, Tank_Converted). And then you'd also need multiple models for different configurations because i doubt people would want a standard workshop.

Then you'd also need to add hatches and crew capacity to the other models....it's a mess. It's not impossible, but for a feature that's a lot of duplication of effort, individual textures, meshes and UV maps. I feel this is something that falls in the "Better as a mod" category for sure.

It’s actually not that hard, I’m thinking a tank just becomes a habitat not modular. Instead of fuel it holds kerbals and has an IVA.

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20 hours ago, SpaceFace545 said:

It’s actually not that hard, I’m thinking a tank just becomes a habitat not modular. Instead of fuel it holds kerbals and has an IVA.

Which still means you have to swap out a model, and create a new mesh, textures and IVA's for every eligible tank. So let's say you wanted 2.5m, 3.5m tankage to be eligible, and only the 1/2 size and full variants. That's still 4 new models, meshes and several new textures.

Now it is unlikely that they couldn't just modify the existing models and meshes, so that reduces the workload considerably. But i still just think their time would be better spent elsewhere; that's just my opinion though.

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On 4/5/2020 at 6:28 PM, DStaal said:

It occurs to me that wet workshops might actually be very useful on interstellar torch ships - they carry a lot of fuel to start, and it takes you years to get to your destination.  You could save a bit of mass - and add activities to the journey - by not having all the living area set up at the start of the trip. 

A 50 m wide spherical hall for sphereball.
If partially fill it with water, then for blobwaterball or waterbloball.

Also a music hall. Imagine the echo.
And nobody will hear the roar of music just at a centimeter outside. Because of vacuum.

***

And if they have a greenhouse, they can pickle cabbage there. A whole tank of it.

***

Furniture for the wet workshop.

Spoiler

e72c300175a63ed76562632d5f457a40.jpg

 

 

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