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I say nay to RSS, and here's why.


LittleBitMore
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Do you want RSS, and are my points valid?  

155 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want RSS, and are my points valid?

    • I don't want RSS, and your points are valid.
      93
    • I don't want RSS, but your points are not valid.
      9
    • I want RSS, but your points are valid.
      34
    • I want RSS, and your points are not valid.
      19


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12 hours ago, Laie said:

with Realism Overhaul as the de facto gatekeeper, RSS remains closed to most people.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/184253-real-solar-system-career-using-stock-parts-and-no-contracts/
remove the no contract requirement, and download some PHAT part [mods]

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/9/2020 at 11:57 AM, Kerbart said:

Reasons people continue to play KSP after a first few encounters:

  • This is so much fun!

Reasons people don't play KSP after a first few encounters:

  • I didn't know it's so hard to get into orbit!
  • Why can't I choose between closed-cycle and open-cycle rocket engines? Why can't I define my own fuel mixtures?

The people who complain that the game isn't hardcore enough right now: there's a mod for that. What I'd really want to see is that the game is so easiily moddable that something like RSS is just a matter of dropping in a single mod pack. Since KSP2 supposedly has multiple solar systems, an easy definition of solar systems and the option to choose your starting point would seem relevant.

Is KSP's lack of realism holding off the hordes of real fans? Why did Orbiter never enjoy the succes KSP had? No cutesie green aliens there, just pure hardcore realism.

Mostly that Orbiter is more of a spacecraft operations simulator than a spaceflight simulator; there wasn't terrain before Orbiter 2016 and you can't even crash or burn up without installing add-ons. It's also frankly poor as an educational tool; past me (~10y ago) tried to learn spaceflight using the Go Fly In Space tutorial several times and none of the orbital mechanics clicked, because it was all so removed from what I saw going on in the actual virtual cockpit. On the other hand, watching MechJeb do some runs to Mun and Minmus a few times helped me to intuitively understand orbmech.

Although, the KSP1 devs got too in love with that idea of learning to build and fly rockets through trial-and-error; they failed to provide good tutorials and we wound up with the current situation where barely anyone leaves Kerbin orbit. Most people can get to space by trial and error, some will make it to orbit, a lucky few will reach the Mun -- but you can't go interplanetary just on intuition alone. Same applies to RSS, but make the fractions far smaller. Earth missions are far more demanding than Kerbin. I don't think it'd be impossible to reimagine the stock system into a truly real-scale world, RO and x10 exist after all. But it would be a troublesome change of pace for the current fanbase, and an even greater barrier to entry for new fans.

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:39 PM, LittleBitMore said:

I would legitimately consider not getting KSP2 (I don't throw that term around lightly, I have NEVER said that for a single thing) if RSS is the main system, and so would a lot of players.

But wouldn't the Kerbol System still be the main system? Even if they did add RSS it could just be a few light years or so away. However I did read your post and have to agree that I ended up changing my mind. It would mess up the way the game is and the way it acts.

Edited by Kerminator1000
Thought of more things to say
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On 4/3/2020 at 8:57 PM, Superfluous J said:

Have these people played any other video games ever?

"Oh so it's like real, actual war?" "No if you die you come back a couple minutes later." "Oh well that's stupid."

Actually JNSQ is 25% of "real," or about 2.3x Stock KSP.

I tend to ask what other games they played. Usually all of them either massively scaled down the game world with New Vegas being one of the worst offenders at 9.8 square km (game map scale) representing a state that’s 286,382 square km. Or they make world maps that are realy a bunch of small pockets you can interact with, and with most of the buildings being somehow baracaded off so that they might as well be giant statues, and at best your playing a driving sim to get from place to place.

Edited by [email protected]
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I've been playing RSS for longer than KSP itself, I can't live without RO and wacky real-scale stuff and I think RSS shouldn't be stock. As long as the game is as moddable as KSP 1 - if not more moddable - people will come around to remake it. Well worth the wait :D

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5 hours ago, Kerminator1000 said:

But wouldn't the Kerbol System still be the main system? Even if they did add RSS it could just be a few light years or so away. However I did read your post and have to agree that I ended up changing my mind. It would mess up the way the game is and the way it acts.

a solar system that not everyone wants taking up RAM? Aha... no. I used to have an 8gb mac that I love with my heart, and it died from CPU meltdown bc of me. I refuse to have a system I will never visit and don’t need taking my computer space up. Just no. Also, again, 

5 hours ago, Kerminator1000 said:

tat would mess up the way the game is and the way it acts.

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 4/2/2020 at 11:39 AM, LittleBitMore said:

EDIT: This was written before the legal fiasco in June in which there was news released of a hostile takeover of Star Theory as well as a delay of well over a year. Though all of my points still remain intact, some information is outdated.

People are talking a lot about wanting RSS integrated into KSP2 in some way as stock. I say "absolutely not for many reasons." I will list these reasons below, and if you reply with any arguments towards KSP2 having RSS, I will show you why that argument probably isn't the best of ideas and add it to the OP (but chances are I probably haven't forgotten something).

I hope the poll worked.

Reasons Why Not

Star Theory already delayed the game. You tell them to put more things in, and yet you don't realize this would cause a major delay of at least 1-2 months. You're talking probably 15 or so celestial bodies that orbit the Sun, most of them with at least one moon, and some with up to 50. Not to mention the parts (see next argument). The estimated release date I have is early June, and postponing it for the minimum month and a half could push it into August. But that's a bare minimum, and we're likely to not see it until fall or, if we're unlucky, winter.

They would need to rebalance all the parts. If Earth were to be the homeplanet, you'd honestly need about 3 times the stages you would normally have on an orbiter. This is because KSP parts are specifically designed to be marginally overpowered on Kerbin, and perfectly balanced in something like JNSQ. This still means they are 1/3 as powerful as real engines and tanks, and getting to orbit would be a hassle, as would actually getting through the tech tree. This would scare off so many players. Which is why you need to build a NEW set of multiple hundred parts, just for RSS. They were planning on keeping KSP1 parts, and then adding a few to fill in gaps and adding a few to fill in future stuff.

It would scare off too many new players. Even if they DID delay it and DID make the hundreds of parts, Earth is TEN TIMES as wide as Kerbin, and it would take a lot longer to do anything meaningful. KSP orbital launches take a short amount of time, and RSS launches take a long time in comparison. Not to mention interplanetary transfers, surface operations, and other such things. Not everyone wants to play in a supersized system that takes multiple days to get to the Moon. And this will certainly also scare off long-time players. I would legitimately consider not getting KSP2 (I don't throw that term around lightly, I have NEVER said that for a single thing) if RSS is the main system, and so would a lot of players.

It doesn't fit in with KSP planets and their size. (This argument specifically for those that think it shouldn't be the home system.) I want all KSP2 planets to be similar in space to the stock KSP1 planets. Otherwise it isn't as silly and fun and new as the Kerbol system. Lightyears should be scaled down, as should stars and other such things. Having one solar system that's unexpectedly larger than the others would dominate the rest of the galaxy with Sol's SOI. It would be real distances from the others and would feel like someone copypasted it into a much different galaxy and it would be annoying to get to.

All signs point to the fact that they didn't do it, and probably won't. They haven't rebalanced parts, and they're keeping stock system intact. They probably didn't add RSS anywhere, and they probably won't. If they do, all of these reasons would drive away players and cause less income. Which is a bad thing for game developers, which rely on income to feed their families and pay the bills. They probably won't, and they probably didn't, and I don't think that'll change.

Reasons Why, Counter-arguments

"For educational purposes!" KSP is already one of the best and most educational space games out there. Making it more educational with RSS would technically add the slightest bit more education in playing KSP, but even if it did, it would never outweigh the cons, and it's too much work for such a small reason.

"It can be DLC!" If I've learned anything, it's that games that release DLC at the same date the game releases are generally garbage and they just want more money than they really need. I trust the KSP2 devs to wait at least a few months for the first DLC. And even then, it would disappoint so many new players that try it, say "bah, I don't like it anymore" due to the increased difficulty (by tenfold) and have wasted their money on something they realized they never should have wanted. A very small percentage of new players would like it and a similar percentage of older players. They would waste their money for no reason after realizing rocket science is harder when you add realism.

"It doesn't have to be the home system!" Doesn't change the fact that the parts will still be massively unbalanced, especially the earlier cheap parts you would obviously start with launching on a new colony. Think: early KSP parts will not be useful, and early KSP parts will be your first choice for building a craft in your colony, due to how cheap they are. And the parts will be severely underpowered. Also, see above in "Reasons Why Not" in the subcategory "It doesn't fit in with KSP planets and their size."

"I don't want to get mods to get RSS!" Tough. Those of you against mods should realize a major part of KSP is how customizable it can be with mods, even if you don't support those mods. When KSP2 comes out, shortly RSS2 will too. Some of you think paying 15 dollars for it is better than paying no money for a free crowd sourced RSS in which no KSP2 game delays occur, and while I'm not saying it's a bad opinion (no opinion is bad), I just don't want Star Theory to make KSP2 RSS because you guys spoke up and we didn't. If one or two of you yell at Star Theory to get RSS louder than the rest of us say politely "no thanks", they're gonna listen to you because you're louder, postpone the entire game for another season, and nobody will be happy (except maybe you, but then again, you won't, because now the game is postponed again).

"I don't want to have to wait for mods to get RSS!" And you'd rather wait the much longer delay that the KSP2 folks will have to delay the game for? They're the game devs, so they have to engineer everything just perfectly, which takes much longer than whipping together a planet pack and a few parts mods as a modder-- in which the entire and only goal is to get it done and eliminate bugs, and perfection doesn't have to be on the to do list. Whereas Star Theory has to get it perfect because if it isn't perfect they lose money.

i love playing rss, ive been playing rss ever since it came out, was so dedicated to it that i created a launchsite mod for it, im also working on paralax  

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